Has the kid Foley was chatting with explained why he kept up the

[karlrschneider]

conversation so long?

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. This isn't really an appropriate thing to speculate about.

[moc]

3. ITA. We must not forget the power differential here

not only due to the age difference but also as a result of Foley's position as a congressman. I wouldn't be surprised if the kid was scared shitless.

This makes me sooooo angry.

:mad:

[karlrschneider]

4. It wasn't speculation, it was a question.

...

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. The question can only be answered with speculation.

Let this one go.

[karlrschneider]

11. Thank you for the suggestion. I will file it for future reference.

...

[Totally Committed]

5. Foley was the adult in this horrible incident...

at 16-yrs-old, the kid is still a kid who is mindful of the adult's power -- political, social, and personal -- in this instance. It is unfair to even ask that question, imo.

TC

[karlrschneider]

10. He is report to have answered "a little" after Foley asked him

"Do I make you a little horny?"

I am simply trying to be objective here. And I don't understand how any 16 year old kid (old enough to drive a car) who would, if he were frightened or offended by the question, answer it at all, let alone
that way. If he was bright enough to get to be a page in the House, he's no dummy and unless he's
uglier than dirt, never got propositioned. Maybe that never happens in Louisiana.

[Jazzgirl]

29. I believe that was another page.

Not the one involved in the emails that have been posted. Those are from 2003.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/BrianRoss/story?id=2509586&page=1

[karlrschneider]

30. Well, that little factoid hasn't made its way into the myriad of reports.

What led you to that conclusion? (I'm curious, no offense intended!)

[Jazzgirl]

34. It was posted in a couple of other stories I read.

There was the page that busted him out but the other emails came to light. He has been a freak for a while. I'll try to find the story.

[karlrschneider]

37. Thanks. I've been looking in vain for a while.

:-)

[Jazzgirl]

38. If you subscribe to The Nation the article

about this second page is there by Ari Berman.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?bid=15

[karlrschneider]

42. I do subscribe to The Nation, print version

For some reason the links to the 'explicit' exchanges linked from there won't load for me. I'll keep
trying though, thanks.

[Jazzgirl]

44. Posted this link in another reply.

Here it is again. ABC site. (yech!).

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/foley_resigns_o.html

On edit: Here is a direct link to the second Page's IM's. http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/exclusive_the_s.html

[LeftyMom]

2. It doesn't matter. He's a minor. Even if he loved it it's vile and illegal

That's the point of being a minor, we don't expect them to use good judgement, especially in matters of sex and adult influence.

[karlrschneider]

7. Oh, yes I forgot. That's why we let them drive 5000 pound cars around.

...

[LeftyMom]

14. And they tend to do a piss poor job of it, even after proving thier

ability to drive safely. That's why many states have graduated liscencing provisions now, a recognition that teenagers aren't fully ready for adult responsibility.

Certainly making decisions about appropriate sexual behavior is more complicated than driving, even before a complication such as an authority figure is brought in.

[karlrschneider]

19. True enough, and 80+ year old drivers are just as bad.

But this kid obviously isn't a 3-tooth inbred from Jasperville, Alabama...he clearly had enough
brights (and maybe connections) to land a VERY coveted mini-job in Washington. If there are any
16 year olds in the USA in 2006 who aren't quite well aware that there are millions of people who
would dearly love to get in their pants, they would have to be in a coma. How is a congressman an
"authority figure" to someone who doesn't even live in the same state? Hell, when I was 16, I was
raising 99 kinds of hell with "authority." Maybe this kid is just a pussy. Or a prick tease. It IS
possible!

[Jazzgirl]

46. Straight up pedophile.

Link to the IM's with the other page.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/exclusive_the_s.html

[karlrschneider]

48. Sorry, you are wrong. Check the definition of pedophile.

...

[Jazzgirl]

51. Well....

According to Merriam....

Etymology: New Latin
: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object.

I'd say he considered them sexual objects....especially after reading the IM's.

[karlrschneider]

55. I understand your position but I don't consider a 16 year old a child.

I guess we'll just have to disagree, nu?
:-)

[eShirl]

56. what does the law say?

and the federal laws that Foley helped write

[karlrschneider]

58. In most places it's illegal for an adult to screw a minor,

but that isn't what happened here, is it? At least as far as we know. Did Congress pass a law against talking dirty? I guess I missed that one...and 90% of us DUers are guilty of it as well. Fuck.
:eyes:

[seabeyond]

6. i dont feel it is any of our business. i hope we never know who it is

[RB TexLa]

18. Everyone in NE Louisiana already knows who it is n/t

[seabeyond]

24. bummer

[RB TexLa]

28. It's not like just anyone's kids walk into these positions

most are children of people that are politically connected. And everyone remembers who's child got to be a page instead of their child.

[Vinnie From Indy]

9. What possible reason would make an ounce of difference?

Please help me understand why you would ask such silly question?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[karlrschneider]

22. What evidence have you seen that he is a pedophile?

...

[karlrschneider]

15. Well, perhaps I can engage you in a little thought experiment:

You are 16, you have just spent a year as a page in the United States House of Representatives, far
from home. You are obviously, especially after that experience, not a callow moron from Louisiana,
and certainly above average to have gotten the appointment in the first place.

Now you are back home with no accountability to those you worked with and you get some suggestive
messages (not even in email, but instant messaging) which you apparently (or should) immediately
perceive as inappropriate. Why do you continue the conversation? Why do you say "a little" when
this guy asks if you make him a 'little horny'?

I find myself in the intractable position of defending a person while condemning his actions. Maybe
it's something like the phrase we love to hate from the far-right nuts "love the sinner, hate the sin"?
I really don't get it and I just would like for somebody to explain to me how it took apparently
dozens of exchanges for this kid to suddenly recognize "sick, sick, sick, sick, sick" (sic)

[Zan_of_Texas]

20. For one thing, the exchanges that are posted are

between, allegedly, the Cong. and SEVERAL pages. So, it's not just one kid.

For another, how sure of yourself were you about sex or anything when you were a mid-teen? Would you tell a CONGRESSMAN to go fly a kite? Would you be curious? Would you figure, hey, he's there, I'm many miles away, let's see what he says? Morbid curiousity? Or, in some cases, the kid may have been gay or pre-gay. And, last time I checked (yeah, a long time ago), many mid-teen boys ARE interested in sex or sex talk.

[karlrschneider]

26. I hate doing this...appearing to be trying to defend someone who

is a shit for many reasons, but not really seeing all that much true evil in what has come out SO FAR.
But anyway, I was pretty well grounded at 16 - I had started college, owned a car (a Jeep, actually)
and had my student pilot's license. Sex wasn't a big deal to me...marginally experienced but I
certainly understood the spectrum of sexuality. I was considered by some a fairly 'cute' boy and
I got propositioned many times by people of both genders - I wasn't interested in hopping in bed with
someone who I didn't know well and always managed to deal with those situations with a simple "no,
thanks." I didn't hang around and carry on extended conversations after that.

And now, many years later, I see 16 year old kids in my neighborhood who look like 21 year olds did back in the 1950s. They act that way as well. Whether that's good or bad isn't up to me, it's just the
way of it.

As for questioning or defying authority, I'll just say this: you probably wouldn't believe some of
the letters I wrote to elected officials when I was 16; sometimes I wish I had kept the carbon copies.
:D

[Vinnie From Indy]

57. It would be quite amusing to witness your exchange taking place

in front of a criminal court judge. Any judge I have ever known would quickly and decisively come down on your head like a ton of bricks for uttering such nonsense in a case like this. You should just come right and say that you think there may be some sliver of justification for this Congressman's alleged actions based on the child's behavior.

[rusty_parts2001]

12. This matter has been known to Hastert for a year

They were trying cover it up until after the election.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/09/29/national/w123452D40.DTL&type=politics

[mom cat]

16. THE COVERUP IS A MAJOR ELECTION ISSUE!

[Zan_of_Texas]

17. A few parallels....

The Catholic have their choir boys. Congress has its pages and interns.

Both, it seems, have coverups and refusals to confront abuse and abusers. Going up the chain of command.

I have seen the national Republican party nurture the political life of a handsome closeted gay man here in Houston. Someone he knew some years ago, a gay man who was my professor, told me there was no doubt the former candidate is gay.

So, contemplate this -- if you like to wield power, a lot (can ya think of anyone in the White House that might like power???), you raise candidates from puppyhood -- supply them with money, staff, polling services, and all -- KNOWING full well that they have a weakness. If that weakness (gambling, sex, whatever) is exposed, the operative and the candidate/officeholder know the game is over. I believe that, at least in some cases, the Republican operatives have purposely recruited people like this, then used their weakness as a cudgel over them, any time they need a crucial vote.

[a kennedy]

23. I know, this happens all the time.....it's just.......minors, I guess,

with minors, it's just so wrong, and sick, it's sick and wrong.

[karlrschneider]

21. From your link:

Efforts to reach the boy were unsuccessful, but he told the St. Petersburg Times last November, "I thought it was very inappropriate. After the one about the picture, I decided to stop e-mailing him back." The Times didn't publish the comments until Friday.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the other articles on this (that I've seen) have referred to the exchanges as "instant messaging"
not e-mail.

[Jazzgirl]

43. Here is the link to the second pages IM's.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/exclusive_the_s.html

[Herman Munster]

25. maybe he's a liberal guy

thought to himself, wow this congressman is a sick pervert but let me play along and let him hang himself. I'll save the chat transcript for the right opportunity to release it to the press and give the democrats a seat to win the house back when they desperately need it.

It's what I would have done if I was in that circumstance! :)

[BrotherBuzz]

54. The page worked for a republican

He worked for Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-La.

[question everything]

27. For the same reason that Monica kept her blue dress (nt)

[karlrschneider]

31. For blackmail? Sorry, I don't get the analogy.

...

[question everything]

32. Intuitively knowing that this may be important, in the future

and that he (and she) were going to be part of a major news story.

With the kid, while the full text does show that he was consenting, he still was dealing with a figure of authority and sensed that this could be important, without realizing really why.

With Monica, as of now I really don't know why she kept it. Supposedly she was in love with Clinton and was hoping that he would exchange Hillary with her.

To borrow from F. Scott Fitzgerald: the people in Washington are different from you and me.

[karlrschneider]

36. Okay, I might buy that. Maybe he worked for a DEM congressman.

We don't know that, do we? (Well, *I* don't anyway) But that leaves the question, if he didn't do it
for potential future blackmail (which motive is moot now that MF has resigned), or for personal notoriety (which seems not to be the case since he's anonymous)...that just leaves something like
"private personal satisfaction". Hmm. Seems a bit far-fetched.

[Herman Munster]

41. not far-fetched

personal satisfaction this sicko's career is in tatters and the dem will win the seat. The timing was perfect to fuck up the republicans.

The DNC should give this kod a job. Well done.

[karlrschneider]

49. I'm not complaining about the probable result but this conviction

without a trial makes me a little uneasy. Isn't that the sort of thing we rail against when the Pubs do it?

[ryanus]

33. Whoa whoa whoa! He?

Am I missing a major part of the story?

[karlrschneider]

39. Uh, maybe...........you didn't know the Page was a boy?

...?

[ryanus]

45. No I didn't know.

Oh this is not good for the Republicans. I guess I should have done more than skim the news on this one. Oh this is so bad for them.

[question everything]

40. Read the complete sordid exchange

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2262018&mesg_id=2262154

[karlrschneider]

47. Sordid? That's like Captain Kangaroo compared to most of the stuff

you can see on chatrooms. By the way, this transcript is not email (as the 'kid' claimed) and it's not
IM as far as I can tell, it looks like something pasted right from a chatroom. :eyes:

[LeftCoast]

35. Karl, here's the basic time-line of this story

The initial story that broke was about emails between a page and Foley. This is the kid who felt the emails were creepy. After this got airplay, more information came out about totally un-related (and far more damning) IM's. The IM's were where the kid said "a little" when asked if he was horny too.

[karlrschneider]

50. Okay, so it's a different guy? I need to think about this and research

more. Will be back after...thanks.

[LeftCoast]

53. No prob. This has been a fast-moving story

:hi:

[Jazzgirl]

52. Thanks LeftCoast.

Thats what I was trying to show as well with links to the IM's.

JG