THIS is the biggest problem we face

[BattyDem]

I just got off the phone with my sister, who's a life-long Democrat. She always votes and she tries very hard to stay informed - which isn't always easy because she has three kids, a husband, a dog and a full-time job.

I told her that both our senators voted for the torture bill. She said, "What torture bill?" :-(

She is a very intelligent person who makes an effort to keep up with all of BushCo's latest crap ... and she had no idea.

If a person who tries to stay informed doesn't have a clue - what hope is there that the millions of people who don't try will ever wake up? :cry:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

1. I bet you only about 1 in 100 know about it at this point.

That's why these bastards are running away with this country -because they know they can get away with pretty much everything.

The ones who know about it can be easily be convinced it's ok via propaganda.

[BattyDem]

2. Unfortunately, I think it's more like 1 in 1000

:-(

[LonelyLRLiberal]

3. I guess we can all just send info via email and keep talking

You are lucky your sister is willing to listen and tries to keep up. I have Repuke siblings who don't keep up (don't think they need to because they just HATE Bill and Hillary Clinton) but still think they know what is going on.

[Bjorn Against]

4. It did not even make the cover of many of the major newspapers

My hometown newspaper the St. Paul Pioneer Press which is basically a GOP rag did not put it on the front page. Instead the front page stories were the Twins game, a marathon, the "A Prarie Home Companion" movie which is four monthes old, and the GOP National Convention. But you had to open to page three to see that our government has got rid of habeous corpus, legalized torture and disappearances, and grants the right for Bush to hold people without trial.

One of the most far reaching pieces of legislation in history and it doesn't even make the front page because a four month old movie is more important. I am sure even Garrison Keillor would agree that is ridiculous.

[niallmac]

5. It's true. I get to work thinking this will be a topic of discussion

and find out all people can say is stuff like 'it's about time.' 'They can cut our heads
off and we have to read them their rights.'
I am not working in a brain trust but
it amazes me that people do not see the hypocrisy of what they are saying.
We are now better than 'them' why? Cleaner torture rooms?
We would treat an invading army destroying raping pillaging our cities and defaming our houses of worship differently really?
We are immune from any need for due process because of what reason?

I am feeling more and more estranged from my own country and others are blithely unaware of there being any problem at all...why?

[Bonobo]

6. That is EXACTLY right. I experienced the same!

Over the last two days, I have encountered several people who shocked my by knowing nothing about it.

In addition, the fact that education has been cut to ribbons has a pretty bad effect too.

No one knows enough to sufficiently understand the historic scope of this thing.

Another thing, TV flattens everything out so that a video of a school shooting has more impact than a discussion of this type and people are trained to forget what they just heard as soon as the man says "and our next story..."

A great book that I just remembered is "Amusing Ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman. Strongly recommended.

[bluethruandthru]

7. Part of the problem is the media

calling it the "Detainee treatment bill" and other such nonsense. That sounds like a bill about whether or not you should give lemonade to the jaywalker who was stopped by police.

[Gabi Hayes]

8. THAT's not the biggest problem. THIS is:

the fricking MEDIA

I just watched, teeth gritted, Washington Week in Review.


amazing discourse. not one whiff of the importance of this, as they talked about NO ability for an "enemy combatant," whether he be alien or CITIZEN to face his accusers, have recourse to habeas corpus, speedy trial, etc.

they blithely discussed all the ramifications, as if they were talking about the price of hog jowls.

it's all a game to them; they couldn't care less

[BattyDem]

9. The media is the flip side of the same problem

If the media doesn't report it (or spins it so that it means something entirely different), people won't have a clue what's going on. But ... people who WANT to know what's going on have a hard time finding accurate information because the media doesn't report it and/or spins it beyond recognition. :crazy:

I've told people about Olbermann, Air America, DU, Buzzflash, John Conyers' blog and various other places where they can get the truth. I'm going to keep telling them until at least one of those sources becomes a part of their daily routine! :patriot:

[Gabi Hayes]

11. understood, but even if EVERYbody at DU told 100 people, and

half of them changed their news consumption habits, it wouldn't make a difference

the average consumer spends the amount of time it takes to watch the evening news; maybe a little bit more.

they don't READ anything; don't venture beyond the surface, and their "knowledge" of events is, at best, subliminal

all you need to remember is the very recent poll that found OVER 40% of respondents STILL believing that Saddam had something to do with 911

how does one fight those numbers?

the media REFUSE to do their job

wish I could be more sanguine about this......

[BattyDem]

13. You're right

The media is killing us ... and our country. :-(

[gulliver]

10. It can be taken as good news too.

What some of us call the "torture bill," was intended to save GOP political careers. It doesn't look like it did much. It probably hasn't made back its distribution budget.

[woodsprite]

12. My coworker came by my desk today and was livid

that Carper voted for the bill. He called his office and told them to come take his sign down from his yard ASAP since he refused to support someone who did not fulfill the duty of upholding the Constitution and protecting the rights of Americans. Carper saying he's running in a tight race is kindof a crock - it would be a VERY rare occurence for a DE politician of any stripe not to get re-elected.