I hope this does not come off as sounding like I am an elitist;

[greiner3]

My brother is an engineer for a large US company in the midwest. The company hires new engineers from all over the country. The other day there was a misprint on a company circular that misspelled someone's last name making it read Dour. My brother made what he supposed was a humorous comment to a 20 something new hire engineer that he wondered if that person was. The new hire, and some other engineers, made fun of my brother until they were told that, yes indeed, dour was a word and yes it was english. All of them, I believe the number was 4 or 5, all came from southern universities.

I'll be careful! Is it common in the southern states to have at least a perceived less of an english vocabulary than what I am used to? I did not do terribly well on the SAT years ago, however I've lived in Alabama, Georgia, Virginia, Virginia, Arizona and Nevada and it seems everywhere I go people ask me 'what the hell am I talking about?'

So I ask you, am I an elitist? I don't mind talking with people. I do expect a certain level of intelligent conversation though. I can't stand to talk about sports (I may beat on the next person who mentions nascar), cars, TV programs (The damn program is named after a famous anatomy book!!!!!!), the weather, their or someone else's ailments, for sure not religion (I ignore those who after I sneeze insult me saying some sort of mythical charm over me (bless you)), anybody's children, pets or belongings and I guess most other things people talk about: But at least I can not say these things with more than one or two syllable words!

One last thing. I was in my community college the other day. This class was not remedial. This person was not drooling (Republican, at least on first sight). It actually was a statistics class, a prerequisite one for a calculus based stats class so on that basis I would say this person was not a total waste. The professor said a word and this teen-aged kid asked what it meant. The word? Symmetric. Sorry, but I learned that one, I would imagine, in second or third grade. Your face is symmetrical, etc... What are they not teaching the children today? It's the damn 'all the children left behind.' All the children are taught to the test and the rest of the knowledge they need to function in a technical world such as ours is nowhere to be seen. BTW, I'm a bad speller so that should prove I'm not an elitist! I'm done!

[AlCzervik]

1. my husband is an engineer, math he knows, words--not so much.

[StellaBlue]

2. You and I are kindred spirits

We have the same small talk pet peeves. :D

And, for the record, I am a sixth generation Texan, and an Nth generation Southerner, and graduated from the University of Texas, as did most of my friends... and 99% of the people I know would know what "dour" means.

Go see "Idiocracy" if at all possible... get it on DVD later, otherwise. In the year 2505 America has devolved to a point where the spoken language is a mixture of redneck, ebonics, and slang, and when Luke Wilson appears from 2005 and speaks proper English, he is derided for "talking like a fag".

Too true.

[seabeyond]

3. both boys 8 and 11, very articulate and vast vocabulary

and in the panhandle of texas. people would be in such giggle at oldest when he was four, saying complete sentences and huge words. just adorable.

depends on the house they grow up in, not the area of the country.

[cigsandcoffee]

4. Mark Twain was born in Missouri.

Just an aside.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. heh, one of my favorite people. Ever read his dark stories?

He created science fiction before there was science fiction.

They are tough to find. I made the mistake of lending my only copy out - only to have the book grow legs.

[Warpy]

5. They're not exposed to as much vocabulary as we were

because they're introduced to (gasp!) computers in primary school.

This may be a big mistake. They need to be introduced to BOOKS first, because that's how they'll learn vocabulary and learn how to spell it.

There isn't much depth of language on most websites, let's face it.

[Berry Cool]

6. Don't feel bad. Educational standards are not what they used to be.

It's not that you're a stuck-up snob; it's that you somehow managed to secure an education and other people did not.

I say that not having any real idea of how much education you have or where you went to school or for how long. It's all evident in your post. Besides, as Mark Twain said, one should never let schooling get in the way of one's education. :-) The two concepts can, at times, be mutually exclusive. There are some pretty knowledgeable self-educated people out there, and some people with PhDs who don't know much beyond their narrow little world.

But it is really scary not only how ignorant so many people are, but how much they just don't CARE. Ignorance and stupidity aren't the same thing. Ignorance is curable; people can learn. But if they don't want to learn, they will remain ignorant. They will never learn what "symmetric" means, not because they are too stupid to grasp the concept, but because they just don't care to.

[Marr]

7. Two things: 1) people don't read, and 2) there's a strong tradition of

anti-intellectualism in this country, and it really shows up in vocabulary. People will avoid using precise language in favor of more colloquial terms to avoid looking like an "egg head".

[Greyhound]

13. Great point. It is so sad that it is true.

Being literate is a handicap in amerika.

[SmokingJacket]

9. I grew up in the rural north and was constantly mocked for my

"show off" vocabulary. I wasn't showing off; I was just using the words that came to mind. I read all the time -- still do.

It's less about school or geography, I think, than about reading. Of course, in some places there aren't any libraries or bookstores, so that'll do it.

Or I don't know, maybe people are just getting dumber! It certainly feels that way, reading the newspaper.

[mitchtv]

10. Not just the Red South

Welcome to California. Sometimes I really miss NYC my home town. I am a high school graduate but it was Catholic high. My Spanish vocabulary often confuses local speakers in the US( not Latin America)
note: the constant misuse of the word Pedophile these last couple of days.

[angstlessk]

11. I understand what you mean. I was thought of as a 'snob' and

I had almost NO friends because I spoke the way I was taught in my home. I never thought I was 'smart' but I learned later that my vocabulary turned people off. AND I had no idea. Words I considered 'everyday' words many people had no idea of the meanings, and instead of asking, they just wrote ME off. In fact my first thought was "I understand your conundrum.." but that would sound 'elitist'. I think I have dumbed down because of it.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ELITIST..ONLY PEOPLE WHO WOULD RATHER BE DUMB THAN SMART!

[Greyhound]

12. How old are you, if it's not too personal a question?

I used to help out at the local University tutoring freshmen in a wide variety of subjects, but particularly in english. For the first six months or so I was shocked at the lack of language skills these kids have. Now bear in mind that these were not special-ed or athletes, in fact, most of them were attending on academic scholarships. In my estimation, they were reading at possibly a sixth grade level and comprehension was even worse.

I am so happy that I decided as a kid myself to never procreate, as I am sure I would be in prison right now after a murder spree at the district administrative offices. Apparently all that is taught in school anymore is how to take a multiple choice test.

Oh, and lest I be misinterpreted, I love teachers and believe that most of them do everything in their power to help the kids, it's the administration that should be banned from anywhere even close to the educational system.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. I guess you haven't spend much time in Jersey City

huh? And I get to say that because five generations of my family were born there. Not verbal champs, but great, resiliant folks.

I think that the problem is basically reading. Everyone I know who has a strong vocabulary is an avid reader. And I think that reading for pleasure is at an all-time low.

[nealmhughes]

15. That is actually pretty odd, as Southerners have a richer vocabulary than

most other Americans. We have the "fancy book learning" formal English we learn in school and hear read to us every Sunday in the KJV Bible, the BCP and sermons, etc. and from college. Then we have a rich strata of words and clauses that are unknown to many outside the region. Such as the formation "Fixing to (insert verb) do X." This means 'getting ready to do something," and is considered a "marker."

"Come up a storm or cloud" is common as well for about to storm or less likely rain. For example, in Nashville one could say "I believe it's a-fixing to come up a cloud right soon." and mean "I think it's about to storm before long."

We also preserve the use of "right" as an intensifier, as in "Right Honorable" or "Rt. Rev." in titles.

I have no idea why these lads would not know what dour means. It obviously means "right sad, right dark, right dank."

[zonkers]

16. That may be true but the most beautiful English spoken in the U.S. is

southern basically because it has had time to devlelop uninfluenced by outside forces. Southern men of letters had the luxury of much free time due to slave labor. This time was often spent on education.

[DawgHouse]

17. People who read for pleasure generally have better vocabularies,

as do those who do crossword puzzles or other word games. I doubt it has much to do with what part of the country they are from.

[Iris]

18. The major universities in the South are actually quite good.

I would say the problem has more to do with the fact that they are all engineers.