Memo to Lurking Dem Strategists: Here, I'll DO YOUR JOB for you.

[Warren DeMontague]

As indicated in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2265964

Okay. If the GOP brings up the "But Bill Clinton did it too!" Meme again with regards to Foley- what you are NOT to do is hem, haw, cluck, act sheepish, or play the god-damn defense. It's time for OFFENSE with these people. Get it? Okay. Here's what you say:

"The Republican Party, apparently, can't tell the difference between consenting adult sex, and pedophilia. Well, that explains some things, right there. Maybe that's why they can't tell the difference between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Maybe that's why they can't tell the difference between a stem cell and a baby. Between valid science and religious propaganda. Between A surplus and a deficit. Maybe that's why they can't tell the difference between the constitution, and a roll of toilet paper."

"But let me say that again, very slowly: The Republican Party can't tell the difference between consenting adult sex, and pedophilia. To them, they are one and the same. So either they think that everyone who has sex outside of marriage ought to be sent to prison as a sex offender, or they think all the pedophiles should be let out of jail"

"And maybe that explains why they have this need to impose their own personal obsessions onto the rest of us. They can't be content with thinking the birth control pill or emergency contraception are morally wrong for themselves. They need to try to criminalize, ban, or restrict access to them for everyone else. They can't be content with personal opposition to abortion- they need to throw women in jail for making choices about their own bodies."

"Now, in case you missed the statement from my distinguished Republican colleague about Bill Clinton, let me repeat it one more time: The Republican Party sees absolutely no difference between consenting adult sex and child molestation."

[skipos]

1. Ouch!!! nt

[eleny]

2. Excellent

K&R

[butterfly77]

3. You are correct ...

Did you hear that so called strategists, I am tired of the hesitations,hem, hawing and answering to their bushit make them answer to you stop falling into their traps. When they come on these shows they go on the attack and its your job to do the same.

[Gabi Hayes]

4. that first paragraph is KILLah!!!

especially the final sentence.....BRILLIANT summatory sentence....genius!

[Ethelk2044]

68. Message Is A good One

You need to send this to as many Senators and House of
Representatives as possible this is a good message and it is a
good talking point.  

[calimary]

69. It sure as hell IS! Just absolutely STELLAR!

And even before that, I liked the run-up, that exhorts our poor spineless jellyDems to GO ON OFFENSE WITH THESE PEOPLE, DAMMIT!!!!

Smack 'em UPSIDE THE HEAD. And do it IMMEDIATELY. Like even YESTERDAY.

[Jack Rabbit]

5. Very good

It isn't really fair, but close enough.

For putting a Republican on the defensive, it works.

[Warren DeMontague]

6. Yeah, a bit. But of course, they've NEVER played fair.

And when we try to respond "fairly" we're drowned out, or painted as "weak".

[Jack Rabbit]

15. To break it down

There are a number of red herrings tossed out (abortion, evolution, etc.). The problem with a red herring is it gives your opponent an opportunity to change the subject. Be ready to bring him back to the subject.

Of course, they know what the difference between sex between consenting adults and pedophilia is. And the mythical Republican may just may try to defend legislating morality. Have an answer ready for that.

Another possible defense is the it's not about the sex, it's about the lying schtick. There may not be a good answer to that, but Clinton wasn't impeached for sex or lying. He was impeached for being a Democrat. The Republicans would for any lame excuse they could think of; they would have impeached him for jaywalking if they had nothing better. I think it was Newt Gingrich who said they were going forward with it because they could, even though they knew it would fail in the Senate.

Speaking of it's not this, but that, it really isn't the pedophilia here. After all, a Democrat can be a pedophile, too; maybe there is a Democratic Congressman or two who prey on sixteen-year-old pages. If it were just about pedophilia, then the problem ends with Foley and there's really no issue. The real problem is that the GOP leadership covered up for him. Hastert did nothing but warn Congressional pages about him, something that would have had to be an informal warning to keep quiet. If I had been Hastert, I would have called Foley into my office, told him what I knew; told him not to even think about running for re-election, because if he did, this stuff was going to hit the papers before the primary; and if he did anything funny with a page between now and then, this stuff was going to hit the papers.

It's not a perfect solution, but it would have been a workable one for the Republicans. It doesn't come out unless it really has to come out (which protects everybody's privacy), and then in plenty of time to blow over before the general election (which protects other Republican candidates who have nothing to do with this). Hastert's inaction, more than Foley's personal misdeeds, are what is going to cost the Republicans seats over this.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. I'm thinking sound bites, here.

And I plead guilty to also venting. I'd really like to see us go on the offense on a lot of these issues, obviously.

I agree- the GOP leadership could be in real trouble for covering it up. Sounds like Rep. Pelosi is all over that, unless I'm mistaken she did very nice work getting that to the fore. Hopefully the investigation won't be sandbagged.

As I interpret it, the GOP leadership is in the same position as the Catholic Church Heirarchy (who also seem to get to play by different rules on these matters), if they knew about potential criminal activity with kids. Florida is a mandatory reporting state- if it turns out there was child molestation or even the potential for child molestation going on, as I understand it, it goes well beyond Hastert needing to tell Foley not to run; he needed to call the cops.

As for red herrings, bringing Bill Clinton up is the biggest red herring of all. Once they open that barn door, I think that's the opportunity to nail them on everything else.

[Jack Rabbit]

22. Biggest red herring of all

This is true. Often, although not too recently, I go over to The Nation and post on their board. Unlike DU, The Nation tolerates right wing dissidents as long as they aren't too disruptive. I'd be rich if I had a nickel for every time I told them that (a) l'affair de Lewinksy is a red herring; and (b) Clinton lying about love still pales compared to Bush's lying about war.

[mitchtv]

28. So you think this might help Donna Brazille?

and Bob Schrum?

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Shrum? Let me put it this way: If that 16 year old Foley was hitting on

ever decides to run for High School Student Body President, he should absolutely NOT let Bob Shrum anywhere his campaign.

[patricia92243]

7. We should be so lucky as to have a lurking Democratic strategist?

I don't believe it. Ask them to please quit lurking.

We will welcome you with open arms and do everything in our power to help.

I just don't believe there are any here.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. Ah, well, a man can dream, can't he? nt

[Crunchy Frog]

29. There was a Democratic stategist who posted on here briefly

during the Kerry campaign. I'm afraid he kind of got his ass handed to him here, and quit posting. I believe he posted under this username "Dem_Strategist" if you ever want to run a search.

[Joanne98]

52. He was an idiot!

[Crunchy Frog]

53. He was.

He was a perfect illustration of what was wrong with the Kerry campaign, and with the politics as usual of the Democratic party as a whole. People didn't hesitate to let him know that, which was a good thing IMO. He heard alot of things that he and his ilk needed to hear, though I don't know that any of it registered.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Yeah, but "memo to lurking idiots" doesn't have the same nice ring

to the OP. :hippie:

[TheDebbieDee]

8. Kick & rec!

[C_U_L8R]

10. the freepers are bashing themselves over the head

with that same argument... the more sensible ones
are pointing out that Pedophilia is a different matter entirely.

It's funny watching em squirm and try to find some kind
of way to weasel out of this. Republicans are so predictably immoral.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. Well, you know, they're the "good guys" and we're the Satan worshippers.

So a little cognitive dissonance is probably in order over there.

[SoCalDem]

12. right-o.. a PARENT had to sign a permission slip

to allow their CHILD to be a page.. an INTERN is of legal age and applies for the JOB..

I am NOT excusing Clinton.. he did a stupid thing.,,.but a stupid thing that millions of men do every day.. There are tons of 40-50 something guys who hit on 20-somethings every day..and they are often welcomed advances..

Every older guy wioth a "trophy wife" years younger did the same thing..only he was not president..

but ANY 50 something who cruises for teenagers is pathetic..

[Warren DeMontague]

13. Yup. You don't have to like what Clinton did to realize that it's apples &

oranges. But I don't think our people should even go there, because that's what the GOP wants- get everyone tripping over themselves to talk about and apologize for what a cad that evil CLENIS was.

One act is a crime, indicative of a serious mental disorder. The other one is tacky, clueless, idiotic and certainly grounds for divorce, but hardly illegal or even "sick".

[longship]

14. Good man, Impeachdubya.

Keep it up and you'll go places. ;-)

[DesertRat]

16. k&r n/t

[bleever]

17. K&R.

[Hamlette]

19. pitch perfect. Every. Damed. Word. n/t

[cynatnite]

20. Perfect!

:patriot:

Well done!

[Kurovski]

21. Yes, sir. You are correct, sir.

It is the only logical conclusion one can draw.

It is with dawning horror that I realize that the Republican Party considers sex with children to be acceptable, and is most likely harboring a good many more offenders within its ranks. Ditto for the general Dittohead populace. And I'm being serious here.

On the other hand? "they can't tell the difference between the constitution, and a roll of toilet paper." :rofl: Also true, but very, very funny. At least as written in the OP.

[me b zola]

23. I, too, think that your post is PERFECT!

I think that your talking point works well with Dean's We've got to be strong and smart the republican leadership hasn't been very smart.

My social psychology prof used to say that there are two major motivating factors for human behavior--everyone wants to believe that they are a) moral & b) intelligent. Using that line of thought, no one would want to vote for someone they believe is immoral and/or stupid.

[NanceGreggs]

24. Oh, man, THAT'S GOOD!!!

That is R-E-A-L-L-Y F-U-C-K-I-N-G GOOD!!!

[arewenotdemo]

25. Very, VERY good.

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Note: This is my first use of woohoo smiley.

[lonestarnot]

26. Holy shit Way over the top EXCELLENT!

K & R!

[Ksec]

27. Exactly

Their arguments are telling. Imagine comparing child molestation to adults having consentual sex. Its obscene to even suggest such a thing.

[Maraya1969]

30. Remember it is also an ABUSE OF POWER

See how that boy went along with Foley's questions even though he is straight and told Foley so? If it was another kid the same age who was not a power figure he would have told him to fuck off right from the start. But Foley was a powerful political figure so he could get the kid to go along with him. This kid WAS molested even if it wasn't in person.

I bet a lot of women can identify with this abuse. I had it happen to me when I was a teenager. I didn't have the guts to say, "Back off you pervert" to an authority figure.

[Booster]

31. I'm bookmarking this one, although I no longer have any friends

who are repugs.

[never_get_over_it]

32. Although I don't agree that this is pedophilia

I also think that doesn't matter and I think you should send this to the DNC our friend Howard Dean immediately

MOST EXCELLENT....

[Cobalt Violet]

33. Very wise words.

:kick:

[chill_wind]

34. Now if only we could even find a single one who gave enough crap

about our party and fate to use them.

[Cobalt Violet]

48. That's so true.

I hope some of the newbies coming in in November will have some fight in them.

[Marr]

35. I would add that the Republicans also impeached Clinton. They covered up

for Foley.

[intheflow]

43. Very good addition to the OP. n/t

[kid a]

36. cut paste recomend!!!

I'll use this!!!

[kelliebrat]

37. Absolutely Excellent!!! n/t

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

:applause: :applause:

[BoneDaddy]

39. Problem is

that they will stick to a dictionary version of "pedophilia" which entails an attraction to Pre-adolescents who have not developed secondary sex characteristics. The boys he solicited were teens.
Pervert...yes
Pedophilia...no

If we don't get it right, they will obfuscate the reality.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Whatever. Make them stand behind the idea that it's the same

as two consenting adults having sex. Do they really want to listen to someone read the text of the IMs Foley sent this kid, and then sit there on National TV arguing semantics about how it's "not really pedophilia"? If the GOP still has people convinced that Iraq was behind 9-11, we can damn well make a point that if a 54 year old man asking to a high school student to measure the length of his dick for him isn't "pedophilia", well, it ought to be.

Then let THEM get bogged down in trying to explain why a 54 year old coming on to a 16 year old is "no big deal".

[rman]

41. 16 is not the age of consent

in most states, as far as i know.

Would repubs claim there's a gray area between post-teen and adult, where no law applies regarding sexual activities?

[Warren DeMontague]

72. And that's the point. Get 'em on camera and make them try to split

that hair. No reason we should do it FOR them. This is their problem.

[2008]

42. YEAH!

proud to k&r

[ProgressiveEconomist]

44. Links: Dem challengers to the Rs most vulnerable in the Predatorgate

Coverup, ordered by my assessment of the R's vulnerability to calls for resignation.

I went to http://www.fec.gov and http://www.thegreenpapers.com and clicked through to state General Election voter information pages. Here are the incumbent names, states and districts, Democratic challengers, and campaign homepages:

R Incumbent (State-District) ....... Democratic Challenger
Homepage

Mark Foley (FL-16) ..................... Tim Mahoney
http://www.timmahoneyforflorida.com

Rodney Alexander (LA-05) ......... Gloria Williams Hearn
NO WEBSITE LINK AT THEGREENPAPERS

John Shimkus (IL-19) .................. Danny Stover
http://www.stoverforcongress.us

Thomas Reynolds (NY-26) .......... Jack Davis
http://www.jackdavis.org

John A. Boehner (OH-08) ............ Mort Meier
http://www.victimsofjohnboehner.org

Denny Hastert (IL-14) ................. John Laesch
http://john06.com

Roy Blunt (MO-07) ..................... Jack Truman
http://trumanforcongress.tripod.com

See http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/9/30/212758/946/426#c426 for more details.

Here's where you can post some of the excellent ideas in this thread, bypassing Howard Dean and the DNC entirely. Most of these candidates are on their own with very few resources. One doesn't even have a website!. IMO, what they need most is help with local media, press releases, photo-ops, etc. IMO, their only hope of gaining office for themselves is to ignite local media feeding frenzies to bloody up and devour the coverup leadership. You can even find lists of links to their local media at the bottom of General Election webpages for their states at http://www.thegreenpapers.com /

[Catchawave]

45. Sent this thread to Olbermann :)

With hopes it will inspire him into another "Special Comment" :toast:

This is fabulous!

[driver8]

46. Excellent!! I love that first paragraph!!

Even better...it's all true!

[Lurking Dem]

47. Hey! Waydda minute!

:P

[Canuckistanian]

49. Good message! Now spread it far and wide.

Use it in every LTTE, every blog comment, every email to a Congressman.
:thumbsup:

[PleadTheFirst]

50. Absolutely brilliant. K&R

[Raster]

51. 53! This issue is vitally important in that the only time a sitting POTUS

in our time was impeached, it involved a extra-marital, though completely legal and consensual, sexual affair. The rethuglicans in Congress--god's own party:sarcasm:;--damn near had fistfights among themselves to be first in line at the microphones to condemn Clinton. Now it seems the same hypocrites may have tried to cover-up Foley's actions to protect his "safe" Congressional seat. And this is the party that was going to return honor and respect to DC?
Heh heh heh, stop, you're killing me.:rofl: The first paragraph says it all!!!

On edit:

"During President Clinton's scandal with intern Monica Lewinsky, Foley sharply criticized him for his sexual misconduct with the young adult.

""It's vile," Foley said in 1998. "It's more sad than anything else — to see someone with such potential throw it all down the drain."

[pat_k]

54. Message to so-called "strategists" -- Impeachment IS Our Positive Agenda!!

. . .What do you think you are winning when you don't challenge rule by signing statement? (And I'm talking about actually DOING something, not mouthing empty words.)

How do expect Americans to trust the Democratic Party to stand up to terrorists, when the members in Congress won't stand up to Bush?

What insanity has led you to believe that sounding like morally-confused, mealy-mouthed, morons will "resonate" (that word you so love) with voters. (In one breath Democratic members say "Bush is nullifying the Constitution!!" and then in the next we hear "Don't worry, we have NO intention of impeaching anybody!")

Wake up and smell the coffee. To speak the truth you must be willing to take the action truth demands of you. As long as you keep silent on impeachment, you either sound nuts, or you muzzle yourselves.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. No doubt. People want to see an opposition party that is capable

of fighting back.

For instance, I think Kerry not responding forcefully to the swift boat goons hurt his image way more than the bogus crap those guys were actually slinging.

[pat_k]

60. We have some counter-productive tendencies on our side we must recognize.

. . .and resist falling victim to.

The most serious problem members of the Democratic Party face is the perception that they are weak

Contrary to what many Democratic strategists believe, the perception of weakness has NOTHING to do with stance on national security. It is rooted in:Contrary to what many Democratic strategists believe, the perception of weakness has NOTHING to do with stance on national security. It is rooted in:

1. The reticence that anti-fascists seem to have when it comes to accusation and punishment. (Something the fascists clearly revels in.) Instead of going after wrong-doers, Democratic leaders seek to "investigate" or "make sure it doesn't happen again" (and the Republicans chuckle, "Gee, for a minute there, I though they were actually going to do something.")


2. The tendency to refrain from fighting the good fights for "practical" or "strategic" reasons. Members of the Democratic Party may believe they are "picking fights wisely," but to observers, it appears they spend all their time predicting defeat and "saving their energy" for fights they can win. Outsiders looking in do not see "wise selection," they see cowardice. When the rare "winnable fight" does materialize, it is often for some incremental step or practical end that inspires no one.

Standing on principle always benefits the leader who does so.

As President Clinton says, people will always choose "strong and wrong" over "weak and right." It's certainly no secret that of what legitimate support Bush gets, much of it is simply based on a carefully crafted "strong leader" perception.

Should the Democratic Party finally recognize that they have a duty to take up the fight for impeachment, even if it turns out to be a "charge of the light brigade," it would not be surprising to see them garner an additional 5-7% of the white male vote, simply for showing the fortitude that demographic respects.

Being an accomplice to crime is NEVER good politics

Our leaders need look no further than their failure to take a stand against the Iraq war for proof. The public believes that most of them voted for the war because they feared they would be called names ("unpatriotic" or whatever). They are now paying a serious price for giving in to threats of "backlash" then.

There are reports that our leaders are allowing the same fear to deter them from taking up the fight for impeachment. ("We can't demand an impeachment inquiry. If we do they'll call us unpatriotic for attacking a president in a time of war").

If our leaders do not overcome this fear and act, they will be digging themselves into a hole they may never get out of.

When we find out the magnitude of the crimes committed by the Bush administration (and we will, sooner or later) do they really want to pay the political price for being accomplices in those crimes?

[Warren DeMontague]

67. Yep. It's astounding how the '06 Torture Bill was the exact same Rove

gambit as the '02 Iraq War Resolution- and still a number of our people fell for it, terrified that not voting for that piece of poo would spell certain electoral doom.

[ProSense]

57. What would be better is Clinton denouncing this comparison!

Maybe even Hillary. The strategist, many of them, disappeared during the 2004 campaign or had no clue how to deal with the RW meme!

[Warren DeMontague]

58. Whoever does it, they need to be fast and effective.

Part of the problem is that the media prefers their "liberal, democratic" voices moderate and/or ineffectual.

[ProSense]

59. Agree, three days of the media noise is too long! n/t

[bbgrunt]

61. brilliant and slam dunk. ......but I think dems want to lose.....

I have never seen a bigger bunch of wimps and pink tutus in my life. Surely they cannot be so dense.

[upi402]

75. R's must have pics of D's with farm animals

I just cannot understand the lack of everything they've shown us.
The football is on the ground, no whistle, 2 yards to the endzone.

"What to do... hmmm.... lets form a committee... yeah, a focus group. and follow up with a poll! Well... lets not rush over to pick it up. The other team may get uneasy with that behavior. Lets not even point out that WE didn't fumble it -they did. They would get angry feelings at us."


Aaaaarrrrgggghhhh!

[gully]

62. Awesome!

That first paragraph is magnificent!

[democrank]

63. Bravo!

One of the best pieces I`ve ever read at DU.

The Republican Party needs a crash course in how to distinguish A from B. Ask Max Cleland. They can`t tell the difference between a decorated combat veteran with three lost limbs and an AWOL POS in a flight suit costume. Look at all their crowing about the robust jobs market. They can`t tell the difference between Software engineers sent to India and 7-11 clerks in Phoenix. They can`t even tell the damn difference between Jack Abramoff`s buddy quickly needing a job and thousands of New Orleans residents quickly needing to be rescued from their flooded attics. They can`t tell the difference between Osama and Saddam, interrogation and torture, right and wrong, legal and illegal.

You`re so right. It`s time for offense.

[liberalla]

64. Say it, say it again and continue saying it!

Hammer it home. There can be NO glossing over of the distinction between consensual adult sex and pedophilia.

That first paragraph is beautiful!

[Catchawave]

65. Oh Kick it up....

..since I'm only allowed to recommend once :D

[Duppers]

66. Hell YES!

Excellent!

Another one of their strays from logic: if they wanted Clinton impeached, why would they not want Foley impeached too?

He doesn't deserved the $100K @ yr. retirement benefit.

[senseandsensibility]

70. kick

although I'm afraid we're screaming in the wilderness. No Dem will say this on TV or anywhere else. Sorry to be a nay sayer, but you know it's true. They won't even speak up when there own Presidential candidate is being slandered.:-( What can I say? I wish it were different.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. Me too.

And the ridiculous thing is, they're terrified of speaking up, when NOT speaking up hurts our party far more.

[senseandsensibility]

73. Yes, the NOT speaking up has cost us two

elections and allowed all the evil that has happened to our great country since. The worst part is our side has learned nothing from this.

[upi402]

74. Clinton showed how to stand up to these idjits, stuck his finger in...

...the air to see how the corporate media's attack spin played out.
I think they farted in the wind and it's okay for "Dems" to stop being useless chickenshits and SAY THE WORD REPUBLICAN!!!!

Blame them by name and in simple terms!!!
That diplomat speak does NOT sink in with lazy self-gratifying Americans.
Folks like a "bad guy" and tend to follow a team that attacks "bad guys"
Or so all of human history would imply.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We torture now