I think this is one of the smartest comments I've read in awhile.

[readmoreoften]

From Blackthorn:

For Gods sake, will you people stop perpetuating the meme...that this administration is incompetent. You are judging them by the wrong standards. By declaring them incompetent you are implying that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and crew are trying to do the right thing but simply can't. Not because they don't want to, but because they simply don't have the ability. They really want to make the world a better place, but they just can't get it happening.

Utter. Horse. Shit.

It's not incompetence when you do something intentionally. Tax cuts for the rich? They did it. Warrantless, unlimited wire-tapping? They did it. Shredding the consitutition? They did it. Everything they have done is intentional and you are doing nothing but enabling this evil group of fucks by allowing them to hide behind "bumbling incompetence".

This is singly the most frustratingly insane meme that DU perpetuates, simply because people don't understand the implication.

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT FUCKING INCOMPETENT. Misunderestimating the enemy is the fastest way to lose a war.


***note boldface by readmoreoften

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. They have accomplished pretty much everything they set out to do

I agree, they aren't the least bit incompetent.

[calimary]

2. I don't think they meant to blow Iraq. I think they wanted the glory of it

especially for those MANY war-hungry chickenhawks who undoubtedly hoped for it to make themselves look like macho war-time heroes (when they passed up the chance at that one when they had "other priorities" than Vietnam). But they did indeed mean pretty much everything else. Even Katrina. ESPECIALLY Katrina. After all, what better way to illustrate the "problem" of a too-big government? Solve the problem poorly. Then point out how inept Big Government is and how it can't solve problems. Straight out of grover norquist (who, I'm CERTAIN, would still insist that his trash be picked up promptly every week).

[Hav]

5. .

20 Millions were already planned for the victory celebrations :eyes:.

[arcane1]

8. the certainly didn't want Iraq to be free and independant

I guarantee that!!! They may have truly expected the violence to be less than it is, but they never wanted to make Iraq a sovereign nation

otherwise, they wouldn't be building permanent military bases, and the world's largest embassy, there

[Tellurian]

11. The War is the vehicle for the power grab to the Dictatorship!

Wonder why there is no War strategy?

They don't need it. Why would they want the war to end. It serves dual purposes.

The Power Grab, both here and the Middle East and protecting their Oil Investments!

Our troops are their private army to do with what they wish. They could care less
about the Best Interests of the country. It's about POWER, GREED, and World Domination.

[DaveT]

14. This is a key point in trying to understand

these scumbags.

There is no easy answer about what they were thinking about Iraq.

Here is why I think they knew it would turn bad -- General Shinsecki (and anybody with lick of sense) knew that the mission had no chance to succeed with the troop commitment that Rummy made. The usual interpretation of them ignoring this is that Rummy was arrogant about his supposed military sagacity.

I don't buy that. Rummy, Cheney, Bush -- the chickenhawk squad never knew shit about fighting a war, and I don't buy that they believed that they somehow re-invented the wheel of imperial conquest.

Rather, I think they are all about boodle. They only care about the politics of raiding the Treasury, and the war "plan" was 100% intended to get the money flowing. More troops would have been a harder political sell -- so they concocted a "plan" that involved the maximum number of troops in the field that they thought would fly politically. Too many troops would get people thinking about a draft. . . which is bad politics.

The idea was to get the bombs falling and the "privatized" war profiteers in theater. However the real war was going could be (and was) dealt with by propaganda.

They probably did not calculate how bad things have turned out. It simply did not matter to them.


This is a heavy condemnation of our "leaders" amid a lot of stuff that we post on this board that sometimes goes over the top. But if you look at the 19th Century in the USA you see an historical parallel to "The War On Terror." It was called "Manifest Destiny." The railroads made gargantuan fortunes off the process of exterminating the native population in the American West, and a generation of politicians became personally wealthy by enabling the gouge.

The War on Terror is the Son of the Cold War and the Great Grandson of Manifest Destiny. When the Cold War ended, peace threatened to put the War Industry out of business. But now the NeoCons have cooked up a silly ass theory that is very similar to Manifest Destiny. They claim to believe that changing the regimes and the culture of the middle east will be bring peace and security to the USA.

The degree to which the "intellectuals" actually relieve this crap is both hard to assess but also completely irrelevant to what is going on.

Rummy just wanted to get troops on the ground in Iraq who would be deployed for a very long time.

He succeeded.

[windbreeze]

29. They never CARED about Iraq..

Iraq never mattered...it was a selfish personal thing with *...nothing more..
wb

[TorchTheWitch]

42. I have to disagree on that one

They made sure that no one would see the bodies, so they expected another Vietnam. Years of endless and profitable (for them) war... exactly what they wanted.

[followthemoney]

43. However, Bush (or his handlers) did want a "Long War" to justify the

Pentagon spending sales pitch that was lost with the end of the "Cold War."

[DaveJ]

3. Maybe it's both...

They are dismantling the government which enables them to be incompetent.

[StClone]

4. I think they wanted Bush to be a Hero

Not the worst Prezelnit zero.

[nam78_two]

6. Agree 100%-not incompetent, ill-intentioned

whole other ball game...

They have accomplished a lot that they wanted to...The only place they have been moderately incompetent is in hiding their hand...

After last week now I am firmly in the "conspiracy theorist" LIHOP/MIHOP camp...had leanings that way before but was trying to remain all "level-headed"....

[Homer Wells]

7. Kicked and Recommended Nt

[stillcool]

9. totally agree

this administration has failed at nothing...well social security...but they still have time....it has set it's sights on. My problem with understanding this has been my perception that uber-wealthy individuals see the world as I do, and..that the sum is greater than it's parts.

[Justice Is Comin]

10. Bush went to Iraq for one reason and one reason only

to be big tough guy and avenge his daddy's attempted assasination. It was going to be only a two day job. Figured he might has well pick up some oil too while he was at it.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

12. They are #1 at restoring the Gilded Age

Nobody does it better.

[blm]

13. I say they do what they do because they're CORRUPT. And that is why

I support Anti-Corruption, Open government Democrats. This country needs them now more than ever.

[Blackthorn]

15. YAY!

As far as Iraq goes, its the same thing. They don't want a stable democratic Iraq. They want chaos. If the violence stops, there is no justification to keep troops there. I wouldn't be suprised to find out that they are aiding the insurgency. I mean, previous administrations have run death squads against unfavourable regimes around the world, why not run them against your own military?

Perpetual violence for a perpetual war.

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. They are extremely competent in that they have managed to get

everything up this point, that they have wanted.

[lapislzi]

17. Kickin' this bad boy...

100% right on all counts.

These guys are pros. They are fiendishly competent. Their agenda just happens not to be the agenda that the rest of the world is following.

Of course, given the choice between believing one's government incompetent and believing one's government malignant...I'd choose "incompetent" too, if I didn't know the facts. Sadly, I know them.

Wish I had taken the blue pill.

[annabanana]

18. Oh, I know.. I know... but it's FUN

to call them stupid too. Besides, there are people who will never, ever, ever believe that they are doing all this on purpose..

So it is to our advantage for THOSE people to believe that the BFEE are just remarkably, incredibly dumb.

I say throw it all out there... Stuff is sticking

[Initech]

19. Damn straight!

This administration is full of evil fuckers who know damn well what they're doing.

Sacrificing a city to a hurricane? Or the Twin Towers? Eh, it's collateral.

Rigging election after election? Dont fuck with us.

Invading a country based on false pretenses? It's not our fault. It's the last guy's fault.

Outing a CIA agent who had the evidence to stop the war before it happened? Dont blame us.

The fact is - these people are dangerous and they know damn well what they're doing. They'd sacrifice the entire country if it meant them keeping their jobs and being able to steal our tax dollars for themselves.

[mirandapriestly]

20. and everything they have done has only been possible

because of 9-11..

[Blackthorn]

23. Exactly.

Now lets run with that.

Assuming 9/11 was LIHOP and they merely exploited what was an independant attack for their own nefarious purposes.

What would have happened if 9/11 *didn't* happen. What if there was no attack being planned or it wasn't to be carried out in the US itself? Do you think that Bush and Cheney would have run a typical Republican administration?

LIHOP implies that Bush and Cheney were sitting around wondering what to do with their 4 years in power; 9/11 happens and suddenly; they have all these grand ideas about Iraq and spying and torture. That doesn't wash with me.

As you say, 9/11 was their catalyst for everything. It was always going to happen. PNAC even spelt it out.

[wiley]

21. A long time ago there was an America where people's honor meant some

thing.

The Republican handlers are so smart and so evil they know how to abuse basic human traits like trust and hope to achieve the objective of creating a very, very small group of power elites who will serve as our noble leaders. They lied to all those honorable and brave men and women who went to Iraq to defend their country from WMDs, using them instead as cheap labor to explore expanding corporate profits. We're paying for this profit dig, not the corporations.

If the sons and daughters of the shareholders of those who own stock in the oil companies or defense companies were sent to Iraq, suddenly the most patriotic and wisest thing to do would be to set a rapid timetable for withdrawl.

It's not my fault and I did my best to help others see the foley involved, but still I feel I personally owe a huge apology to those thousands who have lost their lives in Iraq, and the tens of thousands who have been seriously injured.

A long time ago there were Republicans who would have felt the same, who would have valued human life, and respected our men and women in uniform. Either they are all dead or addled by age, or more concerned with their money.

[glitch]

22. That it is. Only don't forget all the transfer of wealth. K & R

The success of their criminal enterprise is stunning. For now.

[rateyes]

24. YES....the word to use is:

CRIMINAL!

[Rex]

25. Of course you can be incompetent and criminal, behavior

or intentions don't always mean good. These asshats are war criminals and SUCK at it. It is that simple. WORST PRESIDENT EVER, really means that. Failure and evil. 6 years of this bullshit.

[readmoreoften]

26. How do they suck at being war criminals?

They just got the American people to make torture the law of the land-- while simultaneously covering their asses. The companies they employ (Blackwater, Halliburton) are getting richer. In fact, ALL OF THE RICH are getting richer. The taxpayers are footing their bill. They (through tax cuts to the rich) don't even have to pay as much into it.

They are doing very well for themselves. The point isn't doing well for America. The point is doing well for themselves.

[Rex]

32. Okay, they fail at everything they do. They have to use huge amounts

of propaganda to keep up the appearance of something that they would like to call success. And they are war criminals. Let us say they are failed war criminals, both are not mutually exclusive. They suck at being successful, which is good. Unfortunately no one wants to stop them from the war criminal part.

[readmoreoften]

33. Is using huge amounts of propaganda to achieve your goals

synonymous with failing?

Was Nazi Germany in 1940 "failing" because it had to use propaganda on its people?

How are they FAILED war criminals? Failed war criminals wouldn't be murdering and torturing innocent people in gulags around the globe. They're doing a fine job of that.

They are not failing. "Incompetence" is a pose. They're "incompetent" when they want to be.

[Rex]

36. Okay, they have failed AND they are war criminals.

See? Both, not the same. They have failed at running America, no question about it. They are war criminals, no question about it. How can you turn on and off incompetency? These people fail at everything they do, which happens to be dragging down the rest of the country.

The Nazis failed at beating the Allies and had to use propaganda on their own people to keep the war going after a certain point. You can fail AND be criminals, the two are not one and the same.

[readmoreoften]

38. Yes, the Nazis failed by the end.

However, they did not fail because they had to resort to propaganda.

Of course the Administration has "failed" at running America. What makes you think that's it's goal? What we call failure (poverty, misery, repression, chaos) they call success (wealth for the rich, poor too miserable to revolt, proper repression apparatus in place, perpetual chaos as an excuse for taking more freedoms.)

That's like saying I failed to walk to the subway when my point was to take a cab. Or I failed to get a good job recommendation when my point was to rob the company blind and disappear to the Bahamas with the dough. They are not trying to make a better America so they have not failed at doing so. It is not their intention. There intention is to make money for their friends, stay in power by any means necessary, and beat Americans into submission. They are achieving their goal.

[Rex]

40. Where did I say the goal was to fail?

They are NOT achieving their goals, just the opposite. And no, the nazis did no fail because they had to resort to propaganda, clearly you don't understand what I'm saying.

[ComerPerro]

27. funny thing is, incompetence is a best-case scenario

[Raster]

46. Isn't it ironic. Hoping that they are just bumbling incompetents and not

evil sociopathic bastards intent on dominating the world.

[ComerPerro]

48. Ironic, yes. But, even so, here we are, knee deep in it

[Raster]

51. And you know, I think the real truth is that they are evil, bumbling,

incompotent, sociopathic bastards intent on dominating the world.

[G Hawes]

28. I think they're both incompetent and ill-intentioned.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

[readmoreoften]

30. Actually, they are mutually exclusive.

If they were incompetent at carrying out their ill-intentions then things wouldn't be so bad. Selective incompetence. Like a employee thief who can't do his job, but can carry out an elaborate scheme to bankrupt a country and take off for Mexico. Oh, wait, he never intended to do his job. Just like the Bush Administration.

[G Hawes]

31. I disagree

But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that they can be both ill intentioned and incompetent. That doesn't mean that they are incapable of pulling off all of their ill intentions and it doesn't mean that they are incapable of pulling off any of their good intentions. It just means that they are overall incompetent, whether they are striving toward their ill intentions or their good intentions, and that therefore it's hit and miss along the way.

[readmoreoften]

34. So their goal of torturing people in gulags is falling short?

It seems like our overseas secret prisons are doing very well-- they are sufficiently brutal and cruel.
They have good intentions? Care to list those?

Sorry, I can't think of a single good intention of the Bush Administration.

[Swamp Rat]

35. I agree with Blackthorn

:thumbsup:

[Bad Penny]

37. that iraq conquest has never quite gone according to plan

Ditto Afghanistan. they probably thought they'd be mopping up Syria and Iran and steaming gloriously toward Venezuela by now. Their military handling at least has been utterly inept, and their stupidity over it very apparent. Not unlike Hitler in Russia

[readmoreoften]

39. Slow but sure. They're getting there.

20,000 troops sent to the Straight of Hormuz. Next stop Iran. Iraq will be called a victory no matter what it really is.

[Dora]

41. Meme this: THIS ADMINISTRATION IS CRIMINAL. n/t

[followthemoney]

44. When atomic weapons are made illegal, only criminal administrations....

will have them.

[HughBeaumont]

45. No Doubt.

Underestimators see Bewsh and think he = Them. Oh man, it's so bad to do that. These neo-clown fuckers got their clout and practice through several administrations and have had nearly 3 decades to learn from their past mistakes.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. He's Absolutely Incompetent In What His Role As President's Supposed To Be

in·com·pe·tent ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-kmp-tnt)
adj.

1. Not qualified in legal terms: a defendant who was incompetent to stand trial.
2. Inadequate for or unsuited to a particular purpose or application.
3. Devoid of those qualities requisite for effective conduct or action.

Based on the actual definition, and the fact that we are not saying that he is incompetent at perpetrating evil or causing misery and suffering, but that he's incompetent as president, it is then clear that * is absolutely incompetent according to definition: He is unsuited to be or inadequate as president and he and his administration are absolutely devoid of the qualities requisite to be effective as president.

[WilliamPitt]

49. Yup. I said that back in March

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/032706J.shtml

Here's the deal, in case anyone is wondering: none of this, not one bit of it, can be or should be chalked up to "incompetence" on the part of Bush or anyone else within his administration. This was not a mishandled situation. Bush and the boys have gotten exactly, precisely what they wanted out of Iraq, and are now looking forward to fobbing it off on the next poor dupe who staggers into the Oval Office. They got what they came for, and have quit.

(snip)

This was the third time Bush dropped a "signing statement" into an issue of signal importance. When it was revealed that the administration had bypassed the FISA laws in order to conduct surveillance on American citizens, Bush claimed his "wartime powers" gave him the ability to ignore the laws of the land. When Congress passed a law forbidding the torture of any detainee in US custody, Bush issued a signing statement stating that he could bypass the law at his pleasure and torture anyone he damned well pleased.

So, to recap, the "incompetence" thing is nonsense. The Bush boys got paid, got an issue to run on in two elections, put themselves completely and totally above the law on picayune issues like torture and the unauthorized surveillance of American citizens, obliterated the central function of the federal government, and ripped up any and all regulations that would keep their corporate friends from dumping mercury into the river so as to save a few precious pennies on the dollar.

Can anyone still think this was all by accident?

[mom cat]

50. Bingo! And the mess we are in is no accident.