my voting experience in Texas yesterday

[movie_girl99]

I live in a suburb north of Dallas that is pretty conservative but has its share of progressive folks. I went to vote yesterday and walked in to the room where the voting machines were. I didn't panic because I figured they would have paper ballots as well. I have lived there for 15 years and always had paper ballots. I get all checked in and this lady hands me a four digit pin number and shows me to my machine. I said "oh I would like to have a paper ballot" she and the two other people looked at me like I had two heads. So I asked "don't you have paper ballots to use" the lady replies in a crappy tone "well I'm sure we have one laying around here somewhere" so I waited. All three of them again looked at me as if i'd just come down out of the sky in a green suit. I asked again "so do you have any paper ballots available" then the gentleman that checked me in said "i'm sure we do but we don't have time to go and look for one". At this time there were about 10 people in line behind me. The lady then proceeds to tell me how easy this new machine is and I replied "it's not about being easy, I work in technology but I feel more comfortable voting on paper". She put her hand out and kind of led me over to the machine to show me how simple it was to operate and I said "so you're telling me that if I want to vote today, I have to use this machine". They stood there dumbfounded and I just thought to hell with it, i'll use the damn thing but wont vote straight party. I'll go down the list one by one voting for Dem candidates.

My question is...was that legal? Should I have had the option to vote on paper?

[Ian_rd]

1. Not sure about the legality, but I would worry about your vote

being tossed in the trash if it's on some kind of provisional or alternate ballot.

[Toots]

3. They still have election judges from all parties watching over things

It would not be an easy chore to throw away any ballots while being under constant observation. Once the ballot is under lock and key it become even harder to destroy or "fix" that ballot. Voting on machines with no paper ballot or any way to check results is the great danger not paper ballots..

[sinkingfeeling]

2. I think it depends on the state. In Arkansas, we are being asked if we

want paper or machine ballots. I told them I'll always take the paper ones.

[babylonsister]

4. I'd like to know, too. I didn't know Texans had the option to ask

for paper.

[WolverineDG]

25. In my county, we do

When I went to vote yesterday, several people got in line behind me. When asked if I wanted to vote on paper or on the machine, I said (quite loudly), "Paper! I refuse to vote on a machine that won't give me a paper receipt to show how it recorded my vote."

Funnily enough, everyone behind me chose "paper" as well. :evilgrin: The only one I saw voting on the machine was a TV reporter who asked if everyone else was voting on them, only to be told "Counting you, three." :rofl:

dg

[babylonsister]

26. Wow. Then I'm definitely going to at least ask for paper, loudly!

:evilgrin: Thanks! :hi:

[WolverineDG]

27. Just doin' my job, ma'am

Planting little seeds o' doubt, one at a time. No one wants to listen when you talk all "techie" about how bad the machines are & how easily they can be hacked, but bring up the fact that you don't get a receipt, well, that's another thing.

:evilgrin:

:hi:

dg

[SammyWinstonJack]

28. I am going to ask too! And loudly! I don't know if we in Bexar Co.

have that option either. Never hurts to ask though. :evilgrin: If not, I will go candidate by candidate, rather than voting straight Dem. ticket, if that is what it takes to make sure my vote is counted.

[Pab Sungenis]

The election judges should be forced to ask every voter

"paper or plastic?"

[Pab Sungenis]

34. The election judges should be forced to ask every voter

"paper or plastic?"

[WatchWhatISay]

47. How about 'Paper or Vapor?'

I'm a precinct judge, think they'll mind if I offer everyone that option?

[tammywammy]

36. If you ask for paper,

does it count like the electronic vote, or is it considered a provisional ballot that could be thrown out?

[rainbow4321]

41. According to what I heard last night, it is not considered..

a provisional ballot. While they may go in the same bin, the paper ballot is just that, a paper ballot..not provisional. They are supposed to be put in separate piles when sorted afterwards.

I cannot stress for people enough to report glitches like this to their county Dems headquarters right up til election day...take names, etc of the people at the polling places who may be giving you grief. Maybe, hopefully, all it is that they just need to be educated some more.

[Reciprocity]

54. Thanks.

[tammywammy]

55. Thanks for the clarification. n/t

[jarnocan]

5. drip by drip, how can we stop the flow? 1-866-our-vote tell them

http://velvetrevolution.us for more.

[cyclezealot]

6. I would not give in so easy.

I'd demand they call the register of voters to find out for sure. Wish I had thought of your idea before. I get to use paper, because I vote absentee. We live out of the country. Still wonder who counts the paper. The US is looking more like a banana republic each and every day. Great idea. MOre of us do it, it's making a point. We all should call the register of voters before election day demanding paper.

[magellan]

7. We have the same problem in FL

At least in my county. I was going to do early voting but noticed on the sample ballot it said all early voting is done on touchscreen machines, even though if I vote absentee or go in on election day it's done by Diebold Accuvote opti-scan. NEITHER system is acceptable because both are equally vulnerable, but I'll be voting regardless.

Whether or not you have the option to submit a paper vote is down to TX State election law. If it's anything like FL my guess would be no, but don't take my word for it. Call your registrar of elections and ask!

[w8liftinglady]

8. I'm going to vote in Ellis County later today-I'll let you know how it goes..:)

[Ian David]

9. Don't let it go. Make some phonecalls. n/t

[peace13]

10. In my county in Ohio

if you walk in to the BOE between now and election day you can vote early. The ballot is paper! That is where I will be headed. I think the reaction you received is truly weird. I imagine they were supposed to get you paper if you asked for it otherwise they would have told you that all voting was electronic. That sucks! Peace, Kim

[bdamomma]

11. I don't know but those poll workers seem to be not acquainted

with paper ballots, there is a total disconnect between those poll workers and the voter, these people should be informed of such things, geez, the voter is more aware than the poll worker, that is sad.

[Yupster]

16. That's true but

in most precincts, election wortkers are very difficult to find. They are often well meaning but quite elderly and barely trained if at all. There are a lot of mistakes made.

I was an election judge a long time ago for about five years. I made a serious mistake one election. I gave a person a wrong ballot so he/she (Can't remember which) voted for candidates from districts she didn't live in. I only found the error at the end of the day when tallying up. I told the election people when I turned the box in, but there wasn't anything to be done about it. Luckily there weren't any real close races as I would have felt even worse.

[theHandpuppet]

12. In what county do you live?

I'm going to do some research on the voting laws there.

[movie_girl99]

13. I live in Denton County n/t

[theHandpuppet]

17. Then those poll workers just broke the law!!!

Please see:

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/laws/cert.shtml
Certification of Required Use of Accessible Voting Systems
To:
All Political Subdivisions in Texas and Other Interested Parties
From:
Ann McGeehan, Director of Elections
Dated:
November 16, 2005
Re:
Certification of Required Use of Accessible Voting Systems

Per Section 61.012(b) of the Texas Election Code, the Secretary of State hereby certifies that Section 301(a)(3)(B) of the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) has been interpreted to require an accessible voting system at all polling places, including those using manually-counted paper ballots, as a minimum requirement in order to make voting accessible for disabled voters at federal elections.

In enacting Section 61.012 of the Election Code, the Legislature chose not to make a distinction between federal and other elections, and instead imposed the same accessibility requirement for all elections, effective January 1, 2006. The certification language was added to the Election Code because at the critical time of passage for House Bill 1549, the bill which included this 2003 requirement, the Texas Secretary of State's letter request to the US Department of Justice (DOJ) asking for clarification on whether the HAVA requirement would apply to manually-counted paper ballot systems was still outstanding. DOJ responded that:

"We construe Section 301(a)(3)(B) to require, for federal elections, every polling place in the United States to have at least one DRE or other voting system accessible to individuals with disabilities, including polling places in counties which presently have hand-counted paper ballots."

A copy of DOJ's letter may be viewed here: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting/hava/tx_ltr.htm

Accordingly, an accessible voting system is required in all polling places for every election conducted in the State of Texas, whether a federal office is on the ballot or not. Please contact our office if you need any additional information on this matter by e-mail at [e-mail] or toll-free at 1-800-252-VOTE (8683).


State of Texas:
Secretary of State
Elections Division
P.O. Box 12060
Austin, Texas 78711-2060
512.463.5650 or 1.800.252.VOTE (8683)
Fax [phone], TTY 7.1.1

Denton County:
Don Alexander, Elections Administrator
Randie Geistman, Chief Deputy

Building:    Joseph A. Carroll Building 
Address:    401 W. Hickory, Suite 125
                Denton, Texas 76201-9026
Phone:      [phone] (Metro)
                [phone] (Metro)
                (940) 320-VOTE (Election Line)
Fax:          [phone](Metro)
Email:       Mail to Elections

Other Links:
http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/voter/index.shtml
http://www.library.unt.edu/govinfo/politics/Polivote.html

[movie_girl99]

23. I just called one of the numbers above

and they seemed very interested in my case. He looked up my info and the location that I voted and sure enough, paper ballots are supposed to be available. he said that there are some locations that wont have them but that one should have. He also said that if i didn't get a call back today from the Elections Admin. for me to call the Secretary of State and report it. Thanks so much for the info!!!

[theHandpuppet]

24. You're very welcome -- thank you for reporting this problem!

Please let us know how this turns out! :thumbsup:

[Doctor Panacea]

14. Ignorance

The people who were involved in this probably had no idea why you were concerned. They probably never listen to the kind of news, or read the type of news, that would talk about election fraud and electronic voting.

You have to understand that most Americans live in their own cocoon, where their only concerns are money and "hot button" issues like gay marriage, flag burning, abortion, stem-cell research, prayer in schools, and evolution versus creationism.

[movie_girl99]

15. I did think about that later

They were all older people in their 60's and really probably had no clue as to why I was asking.

[theHandpuppet]

21. Doesn't matter

By law, if you request a paper ballot you are to be provided with a paper ballot. THAT'S THE LAW. I'm a poll worker here in WV and we have folks voting both by paper ballot and by machine. It would never enter my mind to question or discourage someone who requests a paper ballot.

[Fleshdancer]

30. exactly. Ignorance is not a valid excuse.

I don't understand why anyone would choose to be a poll worker if a simple request of a paper ballot makes them so uneasy. There's more responsiblity than simply checking people in.

[quiet.american]

18. "What Every Texan Needs to Know About Elections in Texas"

Good for you on your actions yesterday! Maybe the below will help answer your question:

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/pamphlets/everytexan.shtml

As a Texas Voter, Know Your Rights—What are they?

You Have:

The right to a ballot with written instructions on how to cast the ballot.
The right to cast your vote in secret and free from intimidation.
The right to receive up to two more ballots if a mistake is made while marking the ballot.
The right to ask the polling place official for instructions on how to cast the ballot, but not for suggestions on who to vote for.
The right to bring an interpreter to assist you as you qualify to vote if you do not understand the English language.
The right to assistance while casting your ballot if you cannot write, see the ballot, or understand the language in which it is written.
The right to bring written materials into the voting booth to assist you as you cast the ballot.
The right to vote at any early voting location in the county for elections conducted county-wide.
The right to report a possible voting rights abuse to the Secretary of State or to your local election official.
The right to cast a provisional ballot if your name does not appear on the list of registered voters, or you do not have proper identification.
The right to file an administrative complaint with the Secretary of State concerning violations of federal and state voting procedures.
The Secretary of State’s office may be contacted toll-free at 1.800.252.VOTE (8683), via e-mail at [e-mail], and by regular mail at: Elections Division, P.O. Box 12060, Austin, TX 78711.

More info:
http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/pamphlets/everytexan.shtml

[theHandpuppet]

19. Those poll workers broke the law and should be reported

Please see post #17 on this thread. This should be reported ASAP.

Edited to add: BTW, I'm a poll worker in WV and would NEVER put up with this kind of crap going on.

[plcdude]

20. Is there a comprehensive site

that would address this issue for every state? I would love to have Keith Olberman inform us of our rights to access paper ballots. We have a paper ballot and reader so I feel confident that there is a real trail for the vote but need to check on how this is played out for the rest of the state.

[theHandpuppet]

22. Here's a link site I posted in post #17 of this thread

http://www.library.unt.edu/govinfo/politics/Polivote.html

Here's another interesting link: http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=56&Itemid=133

[Fleshdancer]

29. wow! who knew we Texans had so many voting rights??!?

Thanks for posting this info. I seriously had no idea that I could receive up to two more ballots if mistakes were made while marking the ballot. :thumbsup:

[quiet.american]

33. I didn't know that law was on the books anywhere myself!

Now I'll have to check for NY. :)

[tammywammy]

35. Great Post

Thanks for the info. Bookmarked for future reference.

I'll be voting on Nov. 7th. In Arlington we've always had paper ballots on election day. I know that in early voting it's electronic, that's why I've waited the last few years.

[w8liftinglady]

31. In Ellis County-exclusively paper ballots..and a good turnout so far!

I was pleased to see the large turnout when I was voting ..at about 1100 in the morning...I hope some of them are voting like I did.I was disappointed by the number of races that did not have a democrat running.I voted Libertarian in those races.

[WolverineDG]

51. Me too!

He's probably crazier than an outhouse rat, but I love the historical irony of Quanah Parker sitting on the Court of Criminal Appeals. :evilgrin:

dg

[theHandpuppet]

32. Kicking because I'm waiting to hear...

... how this situation is being resolved.

[SouthernBelle82]

37. Disgusting

They are the most unprofessional people I've read about in this election so far. They were very rude to you and acted like you were some idiot even after you said you worked in technology and they were unprepared as well holding people up. I'm not sure if it's legal or not illegal. I've never read of any law or anything about that.

[derby378]

38. I had a similar experience back in 2004

And I also live in Dallas. I was escorted to a touchscreen machine from ES&S, and I asked the poll worker if it was going to provide a verifiable paper record of the vote. She just looked at me as if her brain seized up.

This year, I will not vote early. I will vote on November 7, and I will use a paper ballot. End of story.

[TexasLawyer]

39. I am an election judge in Harris County, TX (Houston)

The only paper ballot option we have on election day (or during Early Voting) is the provisional ballot. And provisional ballots for the most part will not be counted.

If you insist on using a paper ballot, then you must use vote absentee. The deadline for ordering absentee has probably passed, but I haven't checked on that.

[Reciprocity]

42. Thank you.

Now I know the last time my husband and I voted it didn't get counted. Jeez I go to all the trouble to vote, knowing I'm out numbered ten to one. However as long as it is counted I feel I have done my part. Now I find out because we elected not to use the voting machines but the paper ballots it was all for naught. We will not make that mistake this time, even though it may amount to the same thing.

[theHandpuppet]

49. How does this jive with the law?

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/laws/cert.shtml
Certification of Required Use of Accessible Voting Systems
To:
All Political Subdivisions in Texas and Other Interested Parties
From:
Ann McGeehan, Director of Elections
Dated:
November 16, 2005
Re:
Certification of Required Use of Accessible Voting Systems

Per Section 61.012(b) of the Texas Election Code, the Secretary of State hereby certifies that Section 301(a)(3)(B) of the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) has been interpreted to require an accessible voting system at all polling places, including those using manually-counted paper ballots, as a minimum requirement in order to make voting accessible for disabled voters at federal elections.

In enacting Section 61.012 of the Election Code, the Legislature chose not to make a distinction between federal and other elections, and instead imposed the same accessibility requirement for all elections, effective January 1, 2006. The certification language was added to the Election Code because at the critical time of passage for House Bill 1549, the bill which included this 2003 requirement, the Texas Secretary of State's letter request to the US Department of Justice (DOJ) asking for clarification on whether the HAVA requirement would apply to manually-counted paper ballot systems was still outstanding. DOJ responded that:

"We construe Section 301(a)(3)(B) to require, for federal elections, every polling place in the United States to have at least one DRE or other voting system accessible to individuals with disabilities, including polling places in counties which presently have hand-counted paper ballots."

[theHandpuppet]

50. Perhaps you could explain this for us? (Harris County voting irregularities)

A MUST READ!
http://www.texaspopulists.com/node/1339

MACHINE POLITICS | Houston Chronicle
Needed: A paper trail for county ballots
County clerk and mayor shouldn’t ignore troubling situation any longer
By STAN MERRIMAN

A year and a half-long study of the security vulnerabilities of electronic voting systems has just been published by the Brennan Center For Justice at New York University, deploying the expertise of a panel of computer security experts, including Dr. Dan Wallach of Rice University. This seminal study recommends a regime of tests and a voter-verifiable paper trail ( VVPAT). It is referring tofor the huge Hart InterCivic, Inc., electronic voting system right hereused in Harris County

A coalition of local vote protection advocates, including the Harris County Democratic Party and People For the American Way's Election Protection Division, have been advocating these protections for our vote since the fall of 2004. Our efforts have been dismissed by the Harris County clerk with the rebuttal that "voting is a faith-based exercise." To date, they we also have been ignored by Houston Mayor Bill White, who has statutory responsibility to assure the efficacy of the voting system used in city elections. At least County Clerk Beverly Kaufman has met with our group, though neglecting to implement solutions. The mayor has not even been willing to meet. with our Committee. He has also failed to send a representative from the city to observe the failed tests on the electronic voting systems used in city elections.

(snipping)

Shouldn't we trust our election officials to "do the right thing"? The answer is yes, but only if proper measures are in place to enable them, and provided we the voters are able to verify that our votes are cast and counted as intended.

Since a major tool — access to the operational programming of the Hart system — is denied to our local election officials, we the people need reasonable assurance of the efficacy of the Hart voting system.....

(snipping)

In the 2002 election some strange "vote flipping" incidents occurred that actually resulted in the temporary sequestering of machines reported as malfunctioning. The problem occurred with votes cast for senatorial candidates Ron Kirk and John Cornyn "flipping" to both rival party candidates. Lawyers were dispatched to scratch their heads over the cause and effect. No resolution of the situation was achieved.

This same anomaly occurred in the Kerry/Bush presidential election in 2004 in Harris County. Once again, the matter was dismissed as a "glitch" of no consequence and blamed on improper voter use....

MORE

[rainbow4321]

40. Collin County has printed 10,000 paper ballots

Considering there are hundreds of thousands of county residents, why did they bother even printing them?
I would contact your county's Dem Party headquarters **ASAP** and have them rattle some cages NOW...cuz one election day gets here the local repukes will say it is too late to do anything. I was at the Collin County Dem Women's meeting when it was announced about the paper ballots and how few were printed.

In case you are in Collin County:

http://www.collindems.us/civicspace/

[snot]

43. DO NOT VOTE EARLY IN TX

This is what I've been advised. Most early voting will take place on machines, and there will be fewer safeguard in place than on election day.

EVERYONE, you need to CHECK with folks who are knowledgeable about election processes in your OWN GEOGRAPHICAL AREA. I raised the question about my own area in the Election Reform forum, and got good, quick answers there.

[RareLubbockDem]

44. i KNEW i had heard that. Help--

I told my wife that because I was sure I had heard that, but then I couldn't remember where I heard it or even why it was true. Can someone give me some info on this? Also, it's better to pick the Dems one by one and not straight ticket?

[TexasLawyer]

45. I like early voting

You get it done and out of the way, and you can vote conveniently on the weekend or evenings.

There's no wondering where your precinct is with early voting. In Harris County, you can vote at ANY of 34 different early voting locations.

When you've been redistricted over and over like we have, this is a plus.

You will be voting on a machine any way you slice it (at least in Harris County, that's the case).

Another big feature-- if you vote early, you can discover EARLY if there is a problem with your registration, and you'll have time to correct it. If you wait to vote on election day, and discover the problem only then, it may be too late. You can vote a provisional ballot, but whether it will be counted is questionable.

[snot]

56. You can check your registration in advance in other ways --

Best is to call your voter registrar’s office in the county in which you reside. In TX, to find the number, go to: http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/voter/votregduties.shtml and scroll to your county. In Dallas County, the number is [phone].

Second best is here: http://www.canivote.org/

I like early voting, too; but if you care about security and if in your location early voting is electronic, you're at least marginally better off voting on election day, even if that's also electronic.

[WolverineDG]

52. CHECK YOUR COUNTY

There's only like 254 of them in Texas. :eyes: We have paper ballots in my county & apparently in others as well.

dg

[MagickMuffin]

46. Here's some important info....

October 31, 2006
All Day Last day to accept an application for a ballot by mail

November 3, 2006
All Day Last Day to vote early by personal appearance

November 7, 2006
All Day Election Day

[sakabatou]

48. Our electronic voting machines come w/ paper trails

printable receit.

[texpatriot2004]

53. K & R for Transparent Democracy nm