Impeachment must be demanded

[boolean]

Look, I know they're saying they don't plan on impeaching. That's fine. They don't want to take a risk during the election campaign (even though in my opinion, I don't think it would hurt at all to say it). But afterwards, when the Democrats take both houses back (and I'm cautiously optimistic), make no mistake: THIS PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT MUST BE IMPEACHED.

They have committed crimes of the highest degree. We have an illegal war. We have illegal spying. We have the outing of a CIA agent. (AKA: Treason) Fraud during elections. Fraud after elections. Circumvention of the constitution (signing statements). Violations of the Geneva convention. Insider trading, bribery, blackmail, the whole nine yards.

Some of these things have yet to be proven. Some have already been proven. SOME HAVE BEEN OPENLY ADMITTED (The spying program!)

If impeachment doesn't happen, then all is lost. The Democrats will have proven to all of us that they are enablers and accomplices. We cannot let that happen. Regardless of what they're saying right now, once the Democrats take both houses, impeachment must be demanded.

ON EDIT
To anyone who says it can't happen, or it's too hard, or it's dumb, or whatever. Let's not forget what they did to Clinton. He lied about getting a blow job. If they can do it, we can do it. We certainly have much more credibility and moral authority.

[porphyrian]

1. And we need to blast the definition of impeachment to the public.

Even people here still don't know what it means. If people understood it, there would be no question about it.

[MrCoffee]

3. if people understood it, they'd realize there's no chance of it happening

[ClassWarrior]

6. Well there's a random thought with no substantiation.

But thanks for kicking the thread.

NGU.

[MrCoffee]

10. Why Impeachment Is A Practical Impossibility...

it takes 67 votes in the Senate to convict, after the House passes Articles of Impeachment by a majority vote.

Can you name 10 Republican Senators who will vote to impeach? I'm only asking for 10, I'll spot you 5 or 6.

Impeachment without a conviction in the Senate means NOTHING, in terms of actually getting them out of office. Remember, Clinton was impeached in the House. The thugs in the WH would get to keep their jobs.

Investigations, on the other hand, would be fantastic. Force them to raise their right hands in front of EVERY House committee and subcommittee, and do it in front of the cameras.

[boolean]

16. And you're telling me, after investigations...

...that even the repukes would still not impeach? They still want to preserve themselves, after all. If the people DEMAND impeachement, the repukes will have no choice.

[MrCoffee]

25. Honestly, that's exactly what I'm saying...

How receptive to the will of the people have Senate Repugs been lately? How hard do you think they'll have to work to come up with some 10-second sound bite defense that will get more airtime than Brangelina, and will give them political cover when they vote not to convict? What is a "high crime and misdemeanor", and how hard will 40+ lawyers in the Senate (and HUNDREDS more in the RNC) have to look to find a defense to it (and it doesn't have to be a good defense, it just has to give them cover when they vote)?

Take the emotion out of it for just a second...and believe me, i'd be first in line to be screaming for their heads on pikes if i thought we could. Impeachment proceedings would give the pukes ammo for what they do best, which is lie and scream and bloviate about how evil we are. It would be spun every which way, and we'd look like we were out for vengence and blood and were forgetting about governing the country and we hate everyone and we're mean and we kick babies and eat kittens and we'd kill our own mother if the "San Francisco Liberals" told us too...

There's too much to lose and not nearly enough to gain by campaigning on an impeachment platform. As far as i know, NO ONE is saying a word about "Investigations Are Off The Table"...which is IMHO the absolute right way to proceed.

My big question is where do these impeachment rumors keep coming from? Why do Pelosi and Dean keep getting asked about it?

[ClassWarrior]

20. Senators don't "vote to impeach," Einstein.

And "impeachment without a conviction in the Senate means" plenty in terms of airing the dirty laundry of criminal Rape-Publican Party. Hell, just TALKING about IMPEACHING Bush/Cheney** is a good thing. Any step closer we take is bonus.

But all of that aside, IMPEACHMENT is the method that the founders established to see that justice is served.

I want to do the right thing. You want to do the tactical thing.

:shrug:

NGU.

[MrCoffee]

26. So Clinton's impeachment was justice being served?

ETA that investigations serve the same purpose of airing the dirty laundry of the WH without being as politically charged as impeachment does.

And you're right, i typed the wrong word. it should read "vote to convict", which is what it takes to remove them from office.

[ClassWarrior]

44. So you don't believe that evil people can abuse justice?

:eyes:

NGU.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Einstein Posts At DU-Pray Tell

eom

[MrCoffee]

33. i'm not even gonna go there...

lol.

[Nite Owl]

22. The votes can be there

if the public demands it. With Clinton the public was against it, they saw it as political retribution. The case must be made and that has not yet begun as this Congress has done no investigations at all to hold them accountable. We can't put the cart before the horse the investigating might inform the public enough to demand it.

[MrCoffee]

28. Republican Senators being renowned for listening to the public.

[porphyrian]

41. First, it isn't either investigations OR impeachment. We can do both.

That's your false binary. Second, while we may not be gaining 2/3 majority of Democrats in the Senate, there will be a change of paradigm and it's ridiculous to assume that we won't be able to get the republicans necessary to impeach after the elections based on everyone's stance today. You lack vision.

[boolean]

42. It's not as if there are no grounds for it!

There are grounds for impeachement. Multiple grounds for it. Why do people here still not want to persue it? Bush and Cheney have commited crimes. Even if it's unsuccessful, that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. If they get off, I say let the public watch them get off, just like O.J. It'll do damage to the GOP if that happens, and it'll do damage to the GOP if that doesn't happen. It's win-win.

[porphyrian]

43. I would say that either they don't understand impeachment or...

...they have some interest in the destruction of our nation. We cannot allow the President of the United States of America to break laws and act against the Constitution he's sworn to uphold or our laws mean nothing. Period.

[porphyrian]

12. Bullshit. Explain yourself. - n/t

[MrCoffee]

15. Please read Post #10

[bryant69]

2. Investigate then impeach if investigation warrents it

Hold them to some oversight and see what falls out. But we are almost certainly going to end up trading impeachment for something else, because they aren't going to let President Bush get impeached (they being his administration).

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[mmonk]

5. I was unaware it was up to the executive branch.

[theguvnorgc]

8. Monk is right....

It is NOT up to them. And, by the way, Stephanie Miller does not look anywhere NEAR that good in real life....trust me.

[mmonk]

13. Thanks. There is a reason for checks and balances.

Should I look for an unflattering picture of Steph?

[bryant69]

11. It's not

But there's a good chance that the Republicans are going to act as a unit, which means they will have Republicans in Congress and the Veto Power at their disposal. They will offer to give up something to keep President Bush from getting impeached if it gets that close. Assuming the evidence isn't such that Republicans are going to feel required to vote for impeachment, we'll probably end up taking the deal.

Bryant

[mmonk]

19. Expose the crimes against the constitution

and let them hold as a unit. At least the public will be informed and the lies exposed. You're not going to save a life or our rights sitting on your hands.

[bryant69]

35. exactly

Investigate, then impeach, if impeachment is undeniable.

Bryant

[kentuck]

17. I agree...

Investigate and if the results point to impeachment, then proceed at that time. The leaders, such as Pelosi, can say they were not for "impeachment" but evidence has changed. It is not politically advantageous to start an investigation with impeachment in mind. The facts must first be laid on the table for the American people. My hunch is that the facts would be strong enough for impeachment.

[ClassWarrior]

4. It's up to us to create the favorable conditions for it.

One campaign ends on Nov. 7, and another begins Nov. 8.

Visualize IMPEACHMENT. Then DO something to make it happen.

NGU.

[independentdude]

7. From your keyboard....

to the ears of "God".

I have hoped for impeachment since day one. 9/11 made no difference in my feelings... Bush was a deviant Nazi then and he is now. It continuously amazes me that anyone -- ANYone-- could look the other way in this administration.

[novalib]

9. EXACTLY RIGHT!

Look at EVERYTHING this mis-administration has done!

Secret wiretapping!

Illegal imprisonment!

Illegal Monitoring of phonecalls!

Killing 650,000 innocent Iraqis!

Killing 3,000 soliders unnecessarily!

If Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumfield, and a lot of others are NOT impeached, then WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET IMPEACHED?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[HereSince1628]

14. What MUST happen is the Constitutional gov. must be restored

that may very well require impeachment.

But first there are investigations that must take place to establish the likelihood of high crimes and misdemeanors. That's something that Conyers is more than ready for, in my opinion.

If it's not approached this way, Impeachment simply becomes a tool of partisan retribution, and the nation will not be well served.

[Horse with no Name]

18. Even though our Constitution has been shredded and rendered to catbox litter

in the past few years, the basic premise innocent until proven guilty must prevail as we fight for our basic rights. Habeous Corpus and all that jazz--you know, the loss of which sends chills up our collective spines.
With that being said, if we are calling for the punishment before the convictions, then that makes us a little hypocritical.
We must investigate and then we can prosecute.
Putting the cart before the horse is going to do nothing except divide Americans even more than they are.
People remember what a travesty the Clinton impeachment was and really don't want to relive another witchhunt.
Let's get our substance. Let's make our case.
Then we can demand punishment.

[90-percent]

21. alternatively

a trial at the international court at the hague for crimes against humanity would be a lot more fitting. After they used the impeachment tool as a ploy against Clinton, it doesn't carry as much weight. Everybody knew it was bullshit and it rightly didn't stick to Bill at all, judging by his enormous approval ratings through the ordeal, and his growing historical favorability. (You mean we used to have a President that knew how to speak his own fucking language?) (Thanks to Frank Zappa)

-85% Jimmy

[Horse with no Name]

23. I'd call for that before I would call for impeachment

Absolutely correct.

[Tyo]

32. Impeachment is not up to the politicians

It's our decision. If we decide we want it bad enough it'll happen. If we just think that while impeachment would be a good idea we are prepared to let it slide than impeachment won't happen.

[conscious evolution]

40. This is definitely the way to go!

Because of the lack of votes in the Senate impeachment is pretty much not gonna work.Barring a real miracle Nov. 7,anyways.
I say open every kinda investigation possible and turn over the info to a war crimes tribunal.
And not just for The chimp and Dark cheney.

Anyone remotely connected to these fascist should be put under the microscope. Including their co-conspirators in the media.(remember this when people shout 'freedom of the press!'.It is illegal to shout fire in a crowded theater.It is even more so to set said theater on fire and NOT give warning.)

[boolean]

24. But some have already been proven

Bush out and out admitted to the spying program. There is no question that it's illegal. That's just ONE thing to impeach on.

[Horse with no Name]

30. There hasn't been a trial

or a conviction. Just an admission of guilt that a high paid attorney can have thrown out of court.
I don't disagree with the end game here.
Just how we get there.

[A wise Man]

27. Don't forget

all of OUR SONS AND DAUGTHERS have died on a lie,the corp.have raped us with their oil prices,we've been loosing jobs since Bush was selected,we've lost the surplus of the Clinton era, their have been no discussion about healthcare, we are being ripped off by the insurance Co., we are being spied on in lure of "HLS",and we have no true election system. We can all dicuss about the time elements of IMPEACHMENT on "TO DO OR NOT TO DO", but we should all remember Bush and his rethugs administration, the house,senate and the judiciary may just be part of this coup to control this nation. I don't think any of you want that theory to be true.Its time for the voices of the people to be heard and not for our representatives to play nice to these DEVILS.

[Options Remain]

29. All it will take is Bush tossing a few VETO's on dem legislation correcting his mistakes

To push impeachment as a priority.

[BootinUp]

34. How you gonna do that exactly?

With only around 51-55 votes in the senate?

[boolean]

36. DEMAND IT

All I'm saying is to demand it. It doesn't mean it'll happen but at least get it going. Clinton didn't get thrown out either, but they still went for it.

I say put ALL those repuke senators ON THE RECORD as supporting a president who has been proven guilty of committing criminal acts. That's the very least of the good things that could come out of it.

All this not to mention that they DESERVE to be impeached and that it's the right thing to do, no matter what.

[mmonk]

37. Impeachment doesn't begin there.

Impeachment isn't conviction. But it sure can expose alot of things and the lack of exposure is why we're in this fix.

[BootinUp]

39. I am not against investigations

that will serve the interests of the public. At this point I expect the Dem leadership is planning exactly what to do and in a way that the public will support it. If we don't have the public support it will be a waste of time imo.

[kentuck]

38. Sometimes it's best not to show your hand ahead of time...

A case has to be made before any impeachment. However, it should not be difficult to build a case. The question is: Do the Democrats want to impeach?

[ClassWarrior]

46. Actually, the cases must be made - the legal case and the public case.

And making the public case is up to US.

NGU.

[sweetheart]

45. It MUST wait until the next congress anyways

Can we put this down until after november 7th? It is clearly a divisive topic for moderates
and republican swing voters who have realized their errors.