Israel says efforts to stop Iran moving too slowly

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=ea3646dbfb301d1e
Israel is concerned about reports that Iran is expanding its uranium enrichment program.

Iran's student news agency, ISNA, reported Friday that the nation has successfully started enriching uranium in a second network of centrifuges.

With Iran reportedly increasing its capacity for enriching uranium, Israel fears that time is running out on efforts to stop the Islamic regime from building a nuclear bomb. Last week, Iran's president said Israel would soon disappear, following up on a similar statement a year ago, when he threatened to "wipe the Jewish state off the map."

Israeli government spokeswoman Miri Eisen says such bellicose statements are a cause of deep concern in Jerusalem.

"It's inconceivable that a country that calls for the destruction of another country should also try to achieve nuclear capability," he said.

Israel believes the international community is moving too slowly, as Iran stalls and continues to advance its nuclear program. Britain, France and Germany have proposed a draft U.N. Security Council resolution that would impose sanctions on Iran for its nuclear program and refusal to suspend enrichment activities.
more...
Israel is saying Iran must be stopped and now is the time...
Can they be stopped???
I think take a look at North Korea and its obviously a big NO

[katinmn]

1. "Relax" as your RumDum military freak says. It will take 10-20 years.

Iran cannot build a nuclear missile before the mid-terms so just S-E-T-T-L-E down, dammit.

[lovuian]

2. Lol!! Ok thanks

I feel better now

[katinmn]

4. LOL

:hi:

[radwriter0555]

38. Hey, when is israel signing the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty like the rest of the

world?

*crickets chirping*

"do as I say, not as I do!"

[Tom Joad]

45. Right. and when is the US going to comply by working to dismantle

its nukes.

[DRoseDARs]

3. ZOMFG!!1 Look out for that glacier1!! It's headed right for us!1!

Several intelligence assesments have Iran 10 years, not months, YEARS away from having any capability to build even North Korean-level nukes. :eyes:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[katinmn]

6. wow, that's a lot in one post. And your point is?

:shrug:

[lovuian]

9. So your willing to go to WWIII with Iran

and what we will we accomplish??? the samehthing we have in Irag and lebanon

I know Iran has one crazy leader but it seems like the whole world has crazy men leading their countries

War is NOT the answer

[Fredda Weinberg]

11. No, we stood by helpless while they held our hostages

and played our political system like a virtuoso ... ushering in the age of Reagan.

Aren't you proud?

[lovuian]

12. Reagan's policies failed us as well as Carters etc... WHY

cause we keep putting in Horrible dictators like Saddam to control the people and to steal their oil

No I'm not proud

[Jcrowley]

16. That's actually

a profoundly inaccurate and a-historical analysis of what occurred and why what occurred happened as it did.

You would do well to read the numerous declassified documents on this matter.

You have completely turned the truth on it's head.

You seemed to have forgotten, unless you never knew, that the hostages were purposefully held for political purposes as arranged by conservative forces in America. You needn't speculate on this it's a matter of public record, well known.

You've also left out a messy event in 1953 and how that impacted what we experienced with the hostages as well as a constellation of events that are with us today.

Noone was standing by helpless at all there were forces acting with intent all along. The National Security Archive will give you the details.

[Fredda Weinberg]

25. I haven't forgotten squat

Iranians have reason to despise us - does that make us safe?

I'm old enough to remember the rescue attempt - how it was aborted when our own helicopters collided. Fair or not, it defined the Carter administration - and yes, we were helpless.

[Jcrowley]

27. That's not what I'm talking about

The October Surprise was part of a 1980 Ronald Reagan presidential campaign strategy with Islamic Republic of Iran to delay the release of 66 Americans held hostage in Tehran until after the 1980 U.S. Presidential election. In exchange for their cooperation, the United States would supply weapons to Iran as well as unfreeze Iran's monetary assets being held by the US government.

Jimmy Carter had been attempting to deal with the Iran hostage crisis and the hostile regime of the Ayatollah Khomeini for nearly a year. How did Khomeinei gain power? Again 1953. Several conservative agents, George H. W. Bush, arranged to have the hostages held through October, until Reagan could defeat Carter in early November, and then be released, thereby preventing an “October surprise” from the Carter administration in which the hostages would be released shortly before the election. The hostages were released the day of Reagan's inauguration, twenty minutes after his inaugural address.

-Sep. 22 (1980): Iraq invades Iran.
-Oct. 15–20: Meetings are held in Paris between emissaries of the Reagan-Bush campaign, with Mr. Casey as "key participant," and "high-level Iranian and Israeli representatives."
-Oct. 21: Iran, for reasons not explained, abruptly shifts its position in secret negotiations with the Carter administration and disclaims "further interest in receiving military equipment."
-Oct. 21–23: Israel secretly ships F-4 fighter-aircraft tires to Iran, in violation of the U.S. arms embargo, and Iran disperses the hostages to different locations.

[Ms. Clio]

53. *********crickets************

thank you for some genuine history.

[ronnie624]

48. The CIA

was using the U.S. embassy in Iran as a base of operations in an intensive covert war against that country, just as it has done in countries throughout Latin America. Surely any nation has a right to defend itself against attacks from foreigners whose purpose is to dominate and thieve.

The Iranian people had spoken in their ouster of the Shah, and it is unlikely our embassy would have been attacked had our own government simply respected the right of a people to overthrow a brutal dictatorship.

Perhaps one day, those in power in the United States will learn to respect the sovereignty of other nations, and allow them to determine their own political and economic destinies. However, currently unfolding events seem to suggest such will not be forthcoming anytime soon.

*******

For years, the U.S. government, including the CIA, kept what it had done in Iran secret from the American people and the world, although the Iranian people long suspected CIA involvement (the 1953 coup d'etat engineered by the U.S. government). U.S. officials, not surprisingly, considered the operation one of their greatest foreign-policy successes ... until, that is, the enormous convulsion that rocked Iranian society with the violent ouster of the shah and the installation of a virulently anti-American Islamic regime in 1979.

It is impossible to overstate the magnitude of anger and hatred that the Iranian people had for the U.S. government in 1979, not only because their world-famous democratically elected prime minister had been ousted by the CIA but also for having had to live for the following 25 years under a brutal and torturous dictatorship, a U.S.-government-supported dictatorship that also offended many Iranians with its policies of Westernization. In fact, the reason that the Iranian students took control of the U.S. embassy after the violent ouster of the shah in 1979 was their genuine fear that the U.S. government would repeat what it had done in 1953.

*******

While Iranians certainly have not forgotten the U.S. government’s support of Saddam Hussein and Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War during the 1980s, including its furnishing Saddam with weapons of mass destruction to use against the Iranian people, the root of Iranian anger lies with the anti-democracy foreign policy of the U.S. government, by which U.S. officials ousted the Iranian people’s democratically elected prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh, from office in 1953.
<http://www.fff.org/comment/com0501i.asp>


If the Iranians are angry at the U.S., they are certainly well justified. But they don't seem to be angry. According to a poll that was posted here a few months ago, the Iranian people, for some strange reason, overwhelmingly admire American culture. Similar numbers supported normalized relations with the United States. I would think twice about spitting in the face of a people who are obviously reaching out in friendship. Perhaps contempt and dominance are not the proper tact.

[Name removed]

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[williesgirl]

8. Fuck war-monger Israel. Leave us out of this.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Poll_Blind]

24. A "Zazi" is a minor angel in Enochian. I noticed you spelled...

..."Nazareth" as "Zazareth" in another message. Are you, in some obscure way, lauding the poster or attempting to vilify them without the benefit of a fully-functional "n" key?

PB

[n2doc]

10. Fight your own damn wars Israel!

Oh, I forgot, you couldn't even defeat a militia.....

[Name removed]

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[Poll_Blind]

15. On what moral authority does Olmert's Israeli government dictate...

...jack to the international community? The wooing of fascist, racist Avigdor Lieberman into the government shows how weak the coalition is and to what lengths Olmert will go to hold onto power.

  Seeing as the very same Avigdor Lieberman will be heading up Israel's newly-created "Ministry for Strategic Threats", I find it hard to believe they expect to be taken as something anywhere near an objective party in the matter.

  And of course, they have a large-enough nuclear stockpile that any country attacking them could face dozens of nuclear warheads peppering their entire county. M.A.D. is not an indicator of a sane world, but it works as a great deterrent.

PB

[sweetheart]

28. the sky is falling, the sky is falling

yes, what moral authority indeed,

, the ministry for silly wars should be ashamed,
along with the ministry for colonial bullshit,
and the ministry for stealing the next bit of land should just stand up and be honest.

I support israel with democracy, where we count all the
votes in the middle east and make a government.

[breakaleg]

17. Hey Israel, it's your job to make peace with your neighbors, not ours.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[Poll_Blind]

21. Yow! So true. n/t

PB

[Behind the Aegis]

61. Then back the fuck off! And let them do it their way!

[sendero]

23. Hey Israel..

... do it yourselves. We are not your fucking Tom Sawyer.

[Karenina]

26. Sic 'em!

:eyes:

[lcordero2]

29. !!!!!!!!!!!!!

We, the Unites States have not one friend on this planet. I prefer to keep it that way so that one day we may be able to withdraw from world affairs and start concentrating on our own internal problems.

[Poll_Blind]

31. Could you imagine what we could get done if we could keep...

...our tanks and aircraft carriers in our pants for some period of time?

That really is a thought to ponder, thanks....

PB

[Behind the Aegis]

30. The last time Europe dragged her collective feet...

...6 million Jews paid with their lives, and another 5 million, all non-combatants. Even with all the bitching about constantly being reminded of the Holocaust, seems we may see a move in that direction again.

[lcordero2]

32. 50 million people died

How is the 6 million more important that the other 44 million?

[breakaleg]

33. Just did a quick search...

China had 10M deaths, 7M were civilians. They had the biggest death toll of any country.

[Jcrowley]

37. Minor point

and a bit off topic. The Timorese suffered the largest per-capita slaughter of their people in the 20th century.

Your point is well taken.

And of course statistics belie the depth of suffering.

[Spider Jerusalem]

55. Actually, the Soviet Union had the greatest death toll of any one country in WWII.

Over 20 million. 10.7 million military, 11.5 million civilian, and 1 million Russian Jews killed in Hitler's death camps.

[Behind the Aegis]

60. Shhhhh....

....s/he was trying to discount the number of Jews killed.

[Behind the Aegis]

34. 11 million were slaughtered in camps, over half were from one group!

It is not that they were more important, it was that the world did NOTHING while they were being murdered like animals!

[lcordero2]

40. let me correct myself

50 million people allegedly died.

The history books are written from the top down rather than from the bottom up. Everything in a history book has to be treated with suspicion.

[AlienGirl]

41. "Allegedly"? What else might have happened to them?

People just disappeared, whole towns sometimes. If they were not dead, why did they never contact the surviving family members and friends?

Tucker

[lcordero2]

43. It's been rather obvious

That all throughout our nation's history, we have been told lie after lie after lie. We would have never known this if the internet hadn't come into existence. It is rather easy for me to call everything into question everything that I have ever "learned".

[AlienGirl]

46. Just because you have been lied to does not mean everything is a lie

What, exactly, about the Holocaust do you suspect might not be true? I might be able to show you where to find out, I have a bunch of links.

Tucker

[lcordero2]

49. I'm not isolating this to just WW2

I'm talking about all of human history.

a half-truth equals a lie

history = his story = something that may not reflect the truth

[AlienGirl]

50. How much of the Holocaust, specifically, do you doubt?

How much is a lie, in your view?

I don't know all of human history, but I am pretty informed on WWII Europe, so I have lots of links if you want them...

Tucker

[lcordero2]

54. not that in specific

Take for example, Jesse Owens.

In 1936, he won three gold medals and was cheered...by a German crowd no less.
Hitler didn't shake hands with him and he wasn't invited to the White House either. He still had to ride at the back of the bus when he got back to the United States.

Another example, take the internment camps for the Japanese in WW2.

Also, why did a so-called "aryan" nation team up with the Japanese?

The only possible reason that we entered WW2 was for money.

[AlienGirl]

51. ("History" actually derives from "hyster," or womb, not "his story")

The more you know... *cue cheesy music and graphic of a rainbow comet*

[Spider Jerusalem]

56. No it doesn't

Per OED, 2nd Ed. -

history, n.

("hIstƏrI) Also 4 histoire, 5 hystorye, 5–6 historye, 6–7 historie. (ad. L. historia narrative of past events, account, tale, story, a. Gr. ἱστορία(historein) a learning or knowing by inquiry, an account of one's inquiries, narrative, history, f. ἵστωρ (histor), ...--knowing, learned, wise man, judge, etc.

[oblivious]

35. Oh lay off the propaganda for a while. Iran is threatening no one.

How many times can this same warmongering shit be recycled?

[Name removed]

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[radwriter0555]

39. lol I LOVE the cyclical drumbeats. Rove goes down a list of horrors to stir

up the American people, like the color coded alert system!

1. The Gays Are Coming, The Gays are Coming!

2. The Mexicans are coming! The Mexicans are coming!

3. The Terrorists are coming! The terrorists are coming!

4. The Iranians are coming! The Iranians are coming!

5. Next?

He cycles through the various fears and horror scenarios they've created and uhmurricans don't know who to be scared of next!

[Behind the Aegis]

62. Iran is not a threat to the US.

But to be so ignorant to think they couldn't be a threat to another nation is nothing short of ethnocentric, which is not uncommon with many here!

[radwriter0555]

65. It depends on the perceived threat. If other nations such as the US continue

to harrass and provoke them, it's not a 'threat' or terrorism to resist and fight back or retaliate.

Iran has as much right to exist as any other nation.

[Behind the Aegis]

68. Funny...

I don't see ANYONE denying that "Iran has as much right to exist as any other nation." What I DO see is that people are saying that Israel doesn't have the right to exist as nation! But, it seems OK to provoke and harass them!

[malaise]

57. This time 655,000 Iraqis are dead

now you want Iranians dead too.

[Behind the Aegis]

58. you want dead Israelis?

[malaise]

63. Please post the stats

on dead Palestinians and Lebanese v Israelis.

[Behind the Aegis]

69. So they are just numbers to you?

Does this mean you will be "pro-Israeli" should a "9-11" happen in Israel? Some how I doubt that. Your response would be, predictably, "well, they provoked it." (I.E. they got what they deserved.)

[Imagevision]

42. Israel received 500 bunker busters in10/04, - they should use them if they

expect the US. to continue to fight their wars! (fuckem!)

[Tom Joad]

44. Not to mention their massive nuclear arsenal, that the world ignores.

Why not a call to rid the whole world of nukes, and not just nations that pose a challange to the US policies?

[lovuian]

47. Ok here is the Big Paragraph

"Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said repeatedly that Israel cannot allow Iran to acquire a nuclear bomb. That has aroused speculation that Israel could launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran's nuclear facilities, as it did in 1981, when the air force destroyed Iraq's nuclear reactor"


There is another article tonite

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=3957e6ddbed918ed

Unacceptable for Iran to have nuclear weapons, says Bush

I noticed they are together both on the same page ...

There is more here than meets you eyes people
Alliances are being formed for War... Israel and US are united
Iran and North Korea and venusuela are united

Yes america has alliances like germany Spain but when it comes to a premptive strike on a country well they close their eyes

Bush isn't using Weapons of mass Destruction anymore to many connections to the lie from last War... now its Nuclear

Everybody knows our time is short here...

[Selatius]

52. Iran would be wiped off the map in case of a nuclear conflict.

No matter how far Iran gets, Israel allegedly holds several hundred warheads already, so even if Iran builds its first nuke, Israel would have several hundred to reply if Iran dared to use it.

[Behind the Aegis]

59. Compare the size.

One strike to Israel, and one strike to Iran. Who will survive?

[Selatius]

66. Both would survive if struck with just one warhead.

However, I would submit if it got it got to that point, then MAD was a false doctrine, and I don't think that's the case.

[Behind the Aegis]

67. you think?

Israel = 20,770 SQ KM
Iran = 1.648 MILLION SQ KM
Hiroshima = 8,476.95 SQ KM

We know one of the above has been hit with a nuclear weapon. Hiroshima was, all but, destroyed. So, let's pretend, for shits and giggles, that a nuclear bomb is dropped on Israel (G-d forbid) and the same area of Hiroshima is destroyed. This would mean 40% of Israel would be a "wasteland." Now, let's say, that the bomb was dropped on Iran (Allah forbid), that would mean that less than 1% of Iran would be destroyed. So, you are correct in that both "would survive." But, can you HONESTLY say that there is not a difference between 40% of a country being destroyed and less than 1% of country being destroyed that doesn't concern you?

Now, take in consideration that Japan was/is 377,835 SQ KM, which means, just the Hiroshima bomb took out 44% of their country. And that was just ONE of the bombs.

As for MAD, well, 6 million "went into the night," I can't see that happening again.

[Selatius]

70. The bomb dropped on Hiroshima vaporized 13 sq. km of land

You confuse Hiroshima city with Hiroshima Prefecture.

http://www2.mnx.jp/~kev6145/welcome.htm

[Bombtrack]

64. I didn't know countries could say things.

I thought talking was reserved for people and to a lesser degree parrots.

Maybe when they're Jewish.

[Moderator]

71. locking

From the rules:

Due to continuing problems, discussion of Israeli/Palestinian issues is limited to the Israel/Palestine forum, and is governed by a special set of rules which are available in that forum. If a discussion is primarily about US policy in Israeli/Palestinian affairs, it is sometimes allowed in other forums. Discussion of other Middle East issues is also sometimes allowed. If a thread is on a different topic, but later goes off-topic and becomes a discussion of Israeli/Palestinian issues, the moderators may move the thread to the Israel/Palestine forum.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html