I'm starting to get a creepy feeling we're being used.

[idgiehkt]

Bay Buchanan was just on CNN saying calling for a quick resolution to the VA recount. It creeped me out, her saying she didn't want it to go to the courts or whatever, pshaw, let's get it over with. Other republicans are starting to say the same thing, almost like it's a talking point. Are the repukes wanting to hand us the senate and house so we can ditch Bush/Iraq for them so the repukes can be divorced from him/it ideologically without having to do it themselves? The repukes as a party just don't seem to be fighting the loss of the senate as hard as I would expect. The individual candidates are, but I don't hear any unified hue and cry from the GOP, and that makes me suspicious, it's like they want us to do their dirty work so they have a chance to regroup in a couple or four years.

[Hulsey13]

1. Fine with me.

Regroup? I say they can sit this next round of Congress out. Let the grown-ups do the work for a while.

I say we step up to the challenge. Sort out the Iraq situation, get this country back on its economic feet and moral high ground, and let the Republicans deal with that in 2008.

[Window]

46. Fine with me, too.

Just get it over already.

[billybob537]

2. There's no more

milage in used up old lame dick presidents.<pun intended>

[WilliamPitt]

3. Oh for the love of crumbcake

:shaking head:

[Matariki]

43. heh! let's see - how can we make this a disaster for the Dems?

i mean i won't be comfortable until i have something to feel victimized about :eyes:

(do i *really* need to use the sarcasm tag?)

[idgiehkt]

45. not a disaster in any way, shape or form

I just see the repukes taking lemons and making lemonade, once again. They are going to work this to their advantage in every conceivable way, and dems need ot understand that.

Of course, it's looking increasingly clear as many people have posted below that the reason for the quick concession may be voting shenanigans, which makes even more sense to me.

[Matariki]

49. "I just see the repukes taking lemons and making lemonade"

So I guess that makes them eternal optimists and us eternal pessimists (?)

[idgiehkt]

52. optimists?

no. Shrewd motherfuckers? yes.

[Lurking Dem]

77. Now I want crumbcake.

Fuck.

[Wickerman]

4. Powers that be decided its time to refill the national coffers

so that in 2010 or 2012 they can start draining them again. Dems get the fiscal house in order - Republicans come back and loot. Rinse. Repeat. Hopefully this time we can break the chain.

[Little Wing]

5. bait and switch

Get used agreeing with them that there should be no recount in VA.

Then the "final numbers" come in, and Webb's lost.

[Beetwasher]

6. IT'S ALL A ROVE PLOT!!! HE MEANT TO LOSE THE ELECTION!! IT'S JEENYUS!!!!

He's a million steps ahead of us!!! He's the master of space-time and dimensions!!! :eyes:

[idgiehkt]

37. Re-read the OP

I never mentioned Rove. I don't think Rove would jump ship on Bush this quickly, after all, Bush is his life's work. He may do it on the line, probably sooner than later, but not this soon.

[Lex]

7. The Democrats always have to clean up the Republicans' messes.

Most recent example is that Bill Clinton had to fix the economy after Reagan's 'trickle down theory' damn-near bankrupted the country.

[Window]

50. Ain't that the truth.

...and we have a mess on our hands right now.

[Vincardog]

Fine let the GOP tell Allen to concede "For the good of the country"

Let them also tell aWoL to quit the signing statement BS.
Let then also tell the neoconvicts that they are so dead they should just slink back to the hell hole they were spawned in.

We Won. They lost let them GET OVER IT.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. All through life you are used by everybody, except your mother.

Forget about it.

[Alameda]

14. Used

Hey, who wants to be useless?

[idgiehkt]

16. you obviously have never met my mother.

lol

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

9. They don't want recounts because they don't want Dems to have a case

for any recounts we may demand in the future.

[ScreamingMeemie]

10. I'm starting to feel like the GOP is finally "getting it"...

Your policy sucks, we're stuck in a quagmire, we're not really afraid of "terra" anymore. Get the f*ck out of our house...and senate. :hi:

[idgiehkt]

15. that's the point.

the GOP. Bush is dead weight and they are leaving him high and dry, just like he did Rumsfeld. He's dead weight to them now. They are gonna let us do it for them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

18. But the stain of Bush/Cheney is on them all.

I promise you that.

[idgiehkt]

19. Please be right Mrs. Grumpy

The American public has an amazing capacity for selective amnesia. All I can think about today is the 600,000 people that had to die in Iraq for this much to happen. I'm not convinced that in a couple of years Americans will even care about them, or remember about them.

[TahitiNut]

32. That's part of why I foresee Junior being 'martyred' in 2008

Smirko *IS* a loose cannon ... and he'll be a major liability as an ex-pResident. That liability can become an asset if he's martyred in 2008. If Cheney resigns "for health reasons" and a Pretender to The Throne put in his place, the scene will be set. If they 'martyr' Smirk and the new VP is the GOP's nominee, he'd be a virtual shoo-in. In the meantime, a handcuffed and shackled Democratic Congress is a VERY handy scapegoat.

If the honest left doesn't focus on "Impeach. Remove. Indict. Convict. Imprison." like a laser beam, the consequences could be dire indeed. But I'm not a consequentialist - so it's merely a matter of "Do The Right Thing."

Impeach. Remove. Indict. Convict. Imprison. (Rinse. Repeat.)

[idgiehkt]

36. Thank God

someone else is thinking like I am here. And it's you, which means a lot. Thanks for laying out that scenario, it sounds plausible to me, as they are always scheming at least 5 or 10 years down the road.

I absolutely agree there needs to be an impeachment, and I think the repukes at this point might actually support it, if only behind the scenes, so they can dissociate themselves from the wreckage that is the Bush presidency...that way they have a chance of getting back in power alot sooner than they would otherwise. Shrub looked like he was positively falling apart in the snippets of his speech that I saw.

[TahitiNut]

48. We shouldn't confuse opportunism with orchestration, though.

IMHO, in recent U.S. history there's been no 'riper' set of politicians than the Repugnants in Congress who lost. Sadly, they've faced very anemic opposition in D.C. for the past decade Let's make no mistake about it. It was the VOTERS who finally said 'enough!' - not the Democratic establshment. Far too much credit, imho, has been heaped at the feet of the incumbant Democrats and not enough at the feet of the foot soldiers. I grow ever more impatient at the constant deification (and celebretization) of "leaders" and shrivelling of the grass roots except for the "event" of an election. I read far too much spin about how this election is the "solution" instead of but one step towards changing direction and actually RECOVERING the civil liberties and egalitarian economic policies that've been sacrificed over the past thrity years. Indeed, I see absolutely no substantiation for 'moderation' on the left in these election results. If anything, it underlines the need for strong, responsible liberal stances and spinal rigor.

But we'll see. I STILL think it's gonna get a lot worse before it gets materially better.

[idgiehkt]

55. so true.

especially this:
"It was the VOTERS who finally said 'enough!' - not the Democratic establshment."

amen to that, and this:

"Indeed, I see absolutely no substantiation for 'moderation' on the left in these election results."

yep, that's what hangs us up every time, because all of our 'leaders' are from the same social class so they really don't know how to represent us on the left, whereas the repukes don't have to make that reach because they are representing their own economic interests and those of their peers when they run. It's a horrible disadvantage, and dems have been falling for that moderate crap for way too long now. I hope they take a hint, but my hopes are not that high, unfortunately. I just want them to impeach W. If they don't show any interest in doing that...well, I'm pessimistic. We only have two years to get it right, and so much can happen.

[TahitiNut]

63. Part of what I think is remarkable (and IGNORED by so many DUers) ...

... is the fact that the GOP harangued the voters with the specter of "San Francisco liberals!" and "those 'far left' committee chairmen."

Does it EVER occur to anybody that the voters probably said "Sounds good to me! Let's have some of that!"

In making it a national referendum, even the more 'moderate' Democratic usurpers were benefiting from the liberal credentials of Pelosi, Kennedy, Conyers, et al.

I hear the constant (specious) bullshit about 'centrism' and 'moderation' but notice that the voters kicked 'moderates' to the curb. The incumbant Reichbots that survived (in the face of little 'targeted' competition) survived with HUGELY smaller margins. Even the least-funded and least-supported (by the DNC/DCCC/DNC/DSCC) liberals made a very strong showing against GOP 'rainmakers.'

If the new Democratic majority chooses to appease, equivocate, and spread their butt-cheeks ... 2008 wil be a debacle. They'd damned well better put up or become flotsam.

[idgiehkt]

70. yep

"If the new Democratic majority chooses to appease, equivocate, and spread their butt-cheeks ... 2008 wil be a debacle. They'd damned well better put up or become flotsam."

I really don't understand Pelosi's insistence that impeachment isn't on the table, that makes no sense to me. I hope she will see this election as a mandate to change her position on that issue. If she doesn't she's stupid.

[windbreeze]

65. you are not alone

there are others out here who have questions...and feel there is NO reason to take anything at face value...we must not forget the last six years, just because we won congress...
windbreeze

[idgiehkt]

68. "face value"

that's the phrase I have been looking for. Thanks, with repukes you never, ever can take anything at face value yet this fails to register with so many. I should have titled this OP differently, something like "Why the sudden pressure on Allen to concede" because that was the issue I was concentrating on, it makes NO sense to me, given what they have to lose if that happens. Why would repukes roll over and give up the whole FUCKING SENATE without a fight, unless they have something to gain, meaning jettisoning Iraq and Bush without having to do so actively, or something to hide, meaning vote rigging. My bet is on the latter, but the former certainly will benefit them immensely.

[windbreeze]

79. you bet..

I have other friends all over the country...and some have expressed this same uneasy feeling...like there is something we are just not quite seeing clearly...I too am suspicious of them just wanting to let us take the Senate...come on now...no flags waving...no bells ringing??? methinks they should be for every one of us...they have never done anything FOR us (that wasn't really for them)...they aren't likely to start now.....(you and I agree)
windbreeze

[dysfunctional press]

11. that's how our system of government works-

the dems do the hard work of actually growing a surplus- the repugs just come along for the harvest.

[seabeyond]

12. i think there was shennanigans with virg and montana

the heavy turn out didnt allow them the result they needed

[idgiehkt]

24. there's a thread on that

they sure are skewed from the exit polls:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2632227&mesg_id=2632227

[lcordero2]

13. they already did all the damage that they wanted to do

They packed the Supreme Court with Idealogues.
They emptied out the Treasury and impoverished the United States for umpteen generations.

Now we have to fix a shit sandwich since we are either going to need a draft or we are going to have to withdraw every single service member from overseas.

[Lexingtonian]

17. They can't handle being accused of overtly stealing an election

at this point. It's that simple. Everyone- their own people- would believe them guilty and find no tolerable rationalization.

In 2000 the Republican thinking was that they were the majority party, and dealing with a fluke election result of the kind was permitted them for that reason. And the courts bought that, ultimately, and let them win.

About Iraq, I think they're honestly clueless. They're a party defined by defensive egotism, and they'd have to utterly deny that core in order to give way to the inevitable and withdraw to where some good can still be done. But they can't bring themselves to.

[idgiehkt]

22. that's a good point.

I hadn't thought about it this way. But I think they are bowing to the will of Americans and looking to clean up their image by letting the dems deal with the dead weight of Bush and Iraq.

[July]

41. I think that's it, Lexingtonian.

They know that everyone's on to them now, so another hairy election would draw too much scrutiny. They've played the system and the willingness of people to assume the best about them (and about that system) to the limits, and they can't go any further without blatantly fascist moves.

I also concur with you about Iraq. They had their greed dressed up in a pretty "philosophy" of governance that was just plain BS (what's that quote from Galbraith? -- he said it better than I could). But, apparently they believed at least some of their own BS.

[johnnie]

20. Maybe they just don't want anyone looking too close to the votes

If you know what I mean? :)

[idgiehkt]

23. wow.

wouldn't surprise me. I know Pelosi says that impeachment isn't on the table but being that it's a possibility now it seems the repukes would be fighting harder or protesting more unless they somehow think that it could work to their advantage.

[emulatorloo]

35. Folks, I think w have a winner!

:patriot:

[emulatorloo]

40. HOTLINE: Republican Leadership will Pressure Allen to Concede

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2946569

[idgiehkt]

44. thanks for posting that.

something fishy is going on. it's probably vote rigging, from the looks of the exit polls.

[emulatorloo]

72. Check out this thread -- VA GOP complains about too many paper ballots

Machine malfunctions/problems meant they had to hand out paper ballots. Which meant a paper trail they can't mess with

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2646420

TOO RICH! VA GOP concerned about voting machine glitches! (Too MUCH paper!)

[central scrutinizer]

21. If it saves even one life in Iraq then bring it on

Doing the right thing will never go out of style.

[panader0]

25. I can't get on the discussion board. I keep getting bumped

to the selection spot. Is it because there is too much traffic? Help

[Cleita]

26. I wouldn't put it past them. When they make a mess, they

know it takes the Democrats to clean it up.

[Mr_Spock]

27. Let's not over analyze

Sure, the Republicans are going to strategize after getting their ass handed to them. They know they are going to ultimately lose in VA - perhaps they are trying to appear "reasonable" in order to save some face...

[windbreeze]

71. Could we possibly believe they really care???

about saving FACE????after the last 6 years for crying out loud???? After everything that's happened??? all the scandals, and corruption???? after 9/11...that still HAS NOT been explained...???? We must NOT let down our guard...Do we still doubt that the elections in 2000, 2002, 2004 WERE manipulated in their favor????...THEY don't KNOW HOW to get out of IRAQ...THEY have stolen the TREASURY blind...WE are in DEBT up to our g. g.kid's ears...they want RESCUED...damn it...so while they regroup and the focus is OFF of them, it IS ON us...remember, right up until now, everything that's taken place has still been Clinton's fault....I won't forget that...

I have a question...how many days until these newly elected people take office??? 60 or so???? how many days did it take for 9/11 to happen??? Sorry all, I AM cynical...I WILL remain cynical, until it's proven to me, that I don't need to be...This bunch has done nothing in the last several decades FOR this country...it has been only for THEMSELVES and their very own BENEFIT...let's not forget how many times we have been caught off guard, let's not forget all the dirty tricks...let's not forgive and forget the last 6 years as though it never happened...we don't have to use it as a whipping stick...but we just need to NOT forget any of it, and then let our memory guide our actions when dealing with them...

my last thought....imo something does seem fishy, and makes me uneasy...of course, I will be thrilled to be proven wrong...let's NOT be caught OFF guard again, for ANY reason...or in ANY way....
windbreeze

[earth mom]

75. You are absolutely right! Best post on this thread!

:applause:

And don't forget it's up to THE PEOPLE to push for Impeachment.

[baby_mouse]

28. ...

:eyes:

[Guaranteed]

29. Ummm...I doubt that. It's probably more like they've been beaten into

submission and don't want to expend the energy dragging this out ala Bush v. Gore.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

30. Or perhaps they're just gracious losers?

The results were absolutely overbearing for them; they can't lie or cheat their way to more favorable results.

People like Santorum and Hugh Hewitt are being gracious in the defeat of their party. We can only hope Allen feels the same way.

There's nothing Rovian about it; the only thing Rove/Mehlman wanted was to eek out a victory, and they didn't cheat or disenfranchise enough voters this time around. It's so frickin' unfortunate!

[idgiehkt]

33. wow. I never mentioned Rove.

I am talking about the GOP. I kind of see Rove as being behind Bush at this point, and on the other side of the fences from the larger GOP scheming right now, if just for the moment. Other people have brought up Rove on this thread, and he never entered my mind until I read his name here.

[warrens]

31. They know we'll still win

They can delay the inevitable, but not past about Dec. 1. Even over on FR, they're saying just concede, don't drag out the misery. Well, some of them are.

[Blackhatjack]

34. Worst Case Scenario - Voting Canvas 'flips' vote to Allen .....

.... and then they tell DEMS not to demand a recount or look too closely at how the vote total changed to Allen's favor, since they were not going to litigate the matter while Allen was showing as being behind.

The danger is they know how to add to the total, or find votes for WEBB which were "miscounted" to change the total. They are playing WEBB to ask Allen not to demand a recount of the vote because they know if WEBB demands a recount once the vote 'flips' we might find how they did it.

Wouldn't put anything beyond them ....

[joeunderdog]

38. you got it.

They fixed it, but we fixed them. They underestimated the % of votes they needed to flip to get a win in VA and Montana.

[idgiehkt]

47. roflmao

that is so funny.

Oh, I just so HOPE that that is the truth.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

they cheated, but they used the wrong answer key, and failed the test any way.

the only thing that would make it better is if they got caught.

[joeunderdog]

67. More scary than funny. Check this out.

The exit polls for MT and VA varied by 3-4% pts each way for a 6+% swing. No other states that were in play for the Senate varied by more than 1%. They tried to softly slide in just enough votes to keep control, but they underestimated. If they try to contest VA, the Dems will go after the voting machines. Just watch.

[idgiehkt]

69. *thud*

you know, I never cease to be amazed by this, I never really do. I don't know why, but I just get a lump in my throat every time. You are so right, it is more scary than funny. I'm not laughing anymore.

"No other states that were in play for the Senate varied by more than 1%."

:nuke:

[idgiehkt]

39. yeah

there's a thread on that that I posted above.

The exit polls sure look suspicous, don't they. Wow. It's just so weird to see Bay Buchanan, the wicked witch of America, being so concessionistic...too weird.

[laundry_queen]

59. This crossed my mind last night.

But aren't there too many lawyers and other observers there for them to be able to do it in plain sight?
I hope.

[Blackhatjack]

78. Virginia uses lots of electronic voting machines, no paper receipts--I think

The Princeton professor showed how you can make the vote total show anything you want. Same can be done to the central tabulator.

Confusion. Someone slips a memory card in the slot, boots the machine along with lots of others. Start looking at the other machines first, give it time to work, load it to the central tabulator, and it affects the rest of the machines --no traces left.

Not saying this happened -- but it is a built in, inherent weakness to being hacked.

[dogday]

42. You know what they say about Power?

once you lose it, it is hard to get it back... How long will it take the American people to forget the culture of corruption? We need to hold on to our power now that we have it....

[madmusic]

51. 2008

They know the voters won't want one party in control of all.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

53. idgieohktic

[idgiehkt]

57. thanks.

congrats on your re-election, by the way.

[Taverner]

54. Well My guess is the Repubs want to wash their hands of Iraq

And concentrate on 2008.

They know its going to get worse unless we pull out now.

[idgiehkt]

60. thank you.

no shit. and what better way than to have us do the dirty work for them. Yee-haw. once again. And we probably can't pull out now, and won't and then they can come in in 2008 with a plan...


But my question is more about why the move to have Allen concede so soon instead of fighting like hell to keep the senate, and people are saying it's probably because they monkeyed around in VA and are afraid they are gonna get caught. They don't want a scandal. The exit polls are off. Is this fucking "Groundhog Day" or what, lol?

[Taverner]

64. Yes and Yes

I do think they monkeyed around in VA, but their monkeying only works in slim margins.

If they hadn't monkeyed Webb would have won by a landslide.

And I don't think they want to get caught.

At the same time, they are going to use this to their advantage

[MoonRiver]

56. Oddly, a lot of them want us to win.

That's works for me, but it will be up to our Dem congress to produce. I know I'm going to be hounding them day and night.

[alcibiades_mystery]

58. You prove something important here

Some people don't know how to win. Some people want to be the victim, yes, WANT TO BE VICTIMIZED, so they invent plots that make themselves victims even when they win. You are one of these people, and it's sad.

[idgiehkt]

62. Don't trouble yourself too much about it, dear.

this is just a website, on the internet, where people talk about stuff they are thinking about. It has no real consequence. I assure you, I will be just fine, and so will you.

[alcibiades_mystery]

73. I know I'll be fine

You might wanna get that checked out, on the other hand.

[WinkyDink]

61. Isn't there something about a briar patch that fits this?

[cwydro]

66. Funny you saying this...

I don't know that I'd go that far, but wondered today, as I heard the (WONDERFUL) Rumsfeld news - if perhaps certain elements of the Republicans might see this as a way to save face and drop the millstones as well....And of course, they'll regroup. But they are out now and that works for me. Change is needed and it's on the way.:dem:

[AngryOldDem]

74. Or could it just be that most, in the GOP, unlike Fearless Leader...

realize that the past two years (six, if you include 2000) have been a total fuckup, and that they blew it, and lost because people are just plain fed up?

I say we make the most of the next two years and solidify our strength for several election cycles to come. I really don't care what Bay or other GOP talking heads may think.

[truthisfreedom]

76. this is NOT a bad version of "The Producers" where they have something to

gain by giving up power at this moment. in fact, they have so much to gain by running the war into the ground (massive war profiteering, huge corruption/bribery profits over there, enormous contributions next time from the corporations keeping them in power) that they would NEVER have planned anything like this.

we are not being used.

we will drain the swamp, clean up Iraq, and the country will be so proud of us that they'll let us stay in complete power for decades to come.

we need to chase down every last cheater, every last bribe-taker, every fucking war profiteer, and take all of that money back.

we've saved Democracy, people. stop worrying so much. jeepers.

[Blackhatjack]

80. Find it hard to believe Repubs wanted to lose the Senate....

...since only 1/3 comes up for election in every two year election cycle. It is much harder to 'swing' the majority once it is lost.

[conscious evolution]

81. They know what's coming.

Allen is facing indictment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2489306&mesg_id=2491306



They are trying to distance themselves from what could be a major scandal