US Healthcare in shambles - people die.

[Target_For_Exterm]

Who here has been denied medical care because they couldn't pay for it? What if the problem you have is life threatening?

I've been denied more than once for the first reason, and more than once in the second case (but luckily didn't die). I've also been discriminated against because I'm disabled, and because I'm on SSDI.

How widespread is this? How many disabled DUers have been denied medical care because of their disability, or just found all medical services too busy to help them (even when they're not)? How many have been discriminated against because they were on some type of public assistance, including social security?

I have to make a choice soon regarding my Medicare, and I'm afraid to pay extra for extra coverage because around here I may not get it. I'm just curious how widespread this problem is.

[Pharaoh]

1. Here try this group

it is running a little slow these days but you might find some answers here.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=250

[Lars39]

2. I was hustled out of a couple of doctor's offices because my COBRA

was going to expire. Horrible feeling.

[Horse with no Name]

6. I maxed out two insurance policies ($1 mil max)

with an ongoing illness.
I was given a medication that cost close to $10k a month and told I would need it for the rest of my life.
My doc wrote letters to my insurance companies assuring them I would DIE unless I had this medication. (this is a very well respected Doctor at a world renowned hospital).
Anyway, when I maxed the second policy out and was without insurance, my doc decided maybe it wasn't so "urgent".
I haven't had that medication for about 5 years now, and I believe that I do need it, but I didn't die without it.
Just felt like it sometimes.
It's amazing how they can reconcile your illness and healthcare needs with the amount of insurance coverage you have.

[Warpy]

7. Most people don't realize their benefits are capped

It's the case with most policies they have at work. It's one of the really dirty secrets the industry buries in the fine print. Sometimes even the company buying the policy isn't aware of it.

There's a limit on what they are willing to spend on serfs and that limit can be reached astonishingly quickly.

[bullimiami]

10. what medication could possibly have to cost 10K/month.

the drug companies have no shame whatsoever.

[Target_For_Exterm]

12. The more you need it, the more they charge.

My brother has an autoimmune disorder where his immune system is overactive and attacks his body. He pays thousands of dollars a month for drugs. One drug alone costs several thousand a month.

[Horse with no Name]

14. Certain chemotherapies

cost that much and more.
But the other day I had to purchase a prescription for an oral medication.
I only paid my $30 co-pay, but if I didn't have insurance, it would have cost me $1400 for 14 tablets.

[Pharaoh]

25. WE need to Regulate

These greedy fucking drug companies!

[OzarkDem]

34. New chemo drugs are very expensive

Pharma companies want to recoup their costs much more quickly than before.

[Rosemary2205]

24. This is where 2nd/3rd opinions come in handy.

I learned a long time ago that the latest and greatest new treatment is many times not really any better than the old one, just more expensive. I have very good prescription coverage but I still ask, what will this cost and is there a cheaper alternative to try first and see if that works. Once or twice a doctor explained why my medical condition would benefit from the innovation of the lastest and more expensive... And if a doc gets all snooty about his fancy new medication then I go looking for a new opinion.

But that's just me.

[OzarkDem]

35. Good advice

Sometimes new drugs are less effective than the old ones.

[MoonRiver]

3. This isn't what a "civilized" society should be doing to its citizens.

I am blessed with good insurance, but I will fight tooth and nail to make sure EVERY CITIZEN of this country has the same.

[Bluerthanblue]

42. Thank you-

for seeing the need, for not blaming people because they don't have what you do- and for caring about those who so many people don't want to acknowledge exist.

I appreciate your compassion- and your determination- I hope that day comes for all the people who will die for lack of basic health care, in the land of plenty-

We need more people who feel as you do-
Thank you for your voice.


blu

[OzarkDem]

4. Its happening more and more

I know of a woman who was diagnosed with cancer, her husband lost his job and insurance and her doctor refused to schedule her surgery and treatment. She spent three months trying to find charity care and her tumor doubled in size.

Its not unusual, people are dying unnecessarily.

[pecwae]

16. And worse

my friend with Stage IV lung cancer was just 'laid off' exactly one year after her diagnosis. Her employer knows she works for the insurance coverage. She spoke to someone about ADA laws and was told it doesn't apply in her case since others are being 'laid off' as well. Funny how no one else in her organization has been told they are being 'laid off' yet, but the first to go was the one who used insurance the most.

[Target_For_Exterm]

17. Companies that self fund their insurance aren't helping

this problem. They have a powerful incentive to get rid of employees who use too much healthcare - the bottom line.

The healthcare situation in our country is disgraceful.

[pinto]

5. I'm on SSDI, w/Medicare, never denied service anywhere for payment reasons..

And, iirc, every ER in the country is mandated, by law, to provide care in life threatening situations, regardless of any payment considerations.

[annabanana]

9. congratulations. . . . n/t

[bobbolink]

37. My sentiments exactly. Some people are fortunate. Doesn't mean they're any better.

[Horse with no Name]

13. Yes they are mandated to provide "stabilizing care"

That could mean a number of things.
For one...if you break a shoulder that needs to be set surgically, they can splint it and send you home to find a surgeon that is willing to take a patient without insurance (not likely in most areas). So what ends up happening? This person ends up with an arm that has limited use or a lifetime of pain.
They are required to stop bleeding, treat emergent conditions, and render palliative care in extreme situations, but aren't obligated to render curative care.

[bonito]

19. Your right

But what I have found, follow up care and treatment is best done at home with a large degree of alternative remedies, "modern medicine" is for the stock market, trailering alternative medicine in my experience.

[Target_For_Exterm]

20. I'm sitting here at my computer right now after just having

an epileptic seizure. I have no idea what's been going on for the past hour or two. I know I've been posting on DU, but nothing here makes sense to me right now.

I've been trying to see a doctor for a week for something that has caused a lot of stress on my body, which triggers my seizures. I'm on SSDI and waiting for Medicare to start in January. I've gone into status epilepticus after being discharged by a hospital because I couldn't pay. Status epilepticus is very serious, can cause brain damage, and can kill someone. I went on SSDI recently, after having worked for several decades and paying near maximum into SSDI and Medicare, but I'm treated like I'm drawing on welfare when I try to see a doctor. It irks me because I paid big money for this poor care.

Sometimes home remedies don't do the job, and people can suffer an awful lot while they're waiting for doctors.

Medical care in the US is all about $$$. If you have $$$, you get treated. If you don't, you better hope it's nothing serious or you could die.

I have no illusions at all about the "care" in the US medical system.

[bonito]

18. I find that to be true. nm

[Rosemary2205]

23. Me too.

I am disabled, finally off SSDI (can't believe I managed to find an employer willing to accomodate me) but still on Medicare. I have been on medicare for 7 years. I am finding more and more doctors are dropping medicare patients because of the paperwork headaches but I have never had difficulty obtaining basic medical care. In fact I would say I have gotten better medical care than many I know who have so called "good" insurance. I spend more time being part of the herd at the doctor's office and often can't get an appointment right away and a nurse has to call me back and tell me what to do for myself in the meantime, but once I get into the doctor I get good treatment.

[ThomCat]

8. I'm scared to death of not being able to work

for exactly that reason.

I know my insurance from my job gets me better service than I'd get otherwise.

[Cleita]

11. Read these instances that happened in my county.

http://www.newtimes-slo.com/index.php?p=showarticle&id=2069

Not only is this about homelessness but about our broken health system. My county is predominantly Republican, agricultural and a tourist destination. There is no room here for the poor and disabled. I find it disgusting.

[fencesitter]

15. My god, that's horrible.

And I really want to stuff a pole up these xenophobes who claim illegal immigrants come here to get their free healthcare.

[raccoon]

27. That article reads like something straight out of THE GRAPES OF WRATH.

This especially seemed so sad:

"Downing's friends, homeless men living in the field across from the shelter, went down to the Goodwill, purchased a mattress, and dragged it down the railroad tracks.

They adjusted his makeshift bed so he could gaze upon the field's wildflowers while he died. He loved nature, they said."

The article said he was an ex-Marine, suffered from PTSD. I wonder if he was a Vietnam vet.

[OzarkDem]

36. Homeless because they're sick

not because of poor life choices, addiction, etc. Its a growing problem.

Its actually an unintended consequence of welfare reform during the Clinton era. At that time, all support was eliminated for non-elderly adults without dependent children.

[truedelphi]

49. I do private duty nurse assisting work

The stories about the homeless in that article make me want to scream or strangle someone.

It is easier on the people I care for - but still scary as hell. I had one woman whose right breast had been amputated due to cancer and she was sent home less than 24 hours afterwards. Told to change her own dressings. (She was right handed)

Although she was a nurse by profesion, the trauma to her arm was so intense (Upper arm all puffy and movement painful) that she definitely could not cope with changing the bandage the required number of times per day. If not re-bandaged properly, she was looking at serious infection.

Luckily she could afford to pay for a nursing agency to send someone in.

But why would any hospital release someone in that sort of shape?

[truedelphi]

21. I've been on both sides of the coin

Denied care becuse of not being able to afford it

And then there was the scary scary period in my life, right after I won some back child support from my son's dad

The judge also insisted that my son have his father pay for a platinum health insurance policy for him.

So doctors who a day early would not have cared were he dying in the street - they came up with a bogus claim that he was mentally ill ("well, what's this based on," asks I "The fact taht we think your son is Gay," says they)

How does a professional decide the gayness of an eleven year old kid whose main interests are skate boarding and computers?

They wanted to max out his health policy on their therapy. I switched doctors to someone who knew the kid was "normal".

[Manifestor_of_Light]

22. ignored in an ER

I went to an ER (commercial hospital) a few years ago and had no insurance.

This would have killed me eventually by causes like hypoglycemic shock, or a possible stroke or heart attack, or dehydration. But I wasn't bleeding.

I was vomiting uncontrollably, because of a sinus infection and the attendant drainage. I was getting dehydrated. BTW I have hypertension and had a pounding headache because of the condition I was in. What I needed was a shot of anti=barf medicine and a glucose IV to cure the low blood sugar I had and get some water in me. This had happened to me many times in the past, and had often gone into bronchitis and bacterial pneumonia.

I sat in a wheelchair and was ignored. For several hours.

I sent my BF to go find some nurses and tell them to attend to me. He found some that were standing around doing nothing. He could not get them to move.

I was almost pitching face forward into the floor, I was dry heaving so violently.

After about three hours, several other people were in the ER waiting room. They were visibly uncomfortable and grossed out by the noises I was making, and rightfully so. When I am tossing my cookies, I am very loud and sound like I'm dying.

They got some paperwork filled out (while I put my head down on the desk I was sitting at, at the admissions desk) but nothing happened. The idiot female that was allegedly processing me wouldn't do a goddamn thing to help me. I yelled at her (between heaves) and told her she was stupid and she better get a doctor and nurse looking at me. Did no good.

Eventually, we got tired of waiting and went to another commercial hospital. They checked me in within about 45 minutes, asked me questions that told me that they were interested in what I had to say. They asked me how I was usually treated for this, and I told them "glucose IV and antibiotic shot and phenergan".

I wish I could have sued the first bunch of idiots, but I guess I would have had to have gone into hypoglycemic shock or had a stroke or heart attack in order to do that.

I'd like to see an alternative treatment for uncontrollable vomiting.

My BF lost his job and we are without insurance again. And I'm the one with all the chronic conditions. I'm not old enough for medicare and I'm nowhere near sick enough to get on disability. I quit looking for a job long ago.

Oh well, tough toenails in Bush's America. Social Darwinism at work.

[DocSavage]

26. Hate to inform you, but you

may have not been the most emergent patient there. It is an EMERGENCY room. After having worked in many a ER, I will tell you that many folks use the ER as an acute care clinic. Going to the ER for a cough X 2 days with a runny nose is the reason that you have to wait when you are really sick. Ambulances get ahead of you, trauma, and chest pain. If there are a couple of rooms going with trauma and chest pain, well, nurses and docs are busy. Got to wait. It had absolutly nothing to do with your insurance situation.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

32. Dear doc savage

Your argument does not wash.

I did not mention the following:
There was NOBODY at the ER in front of me. No life threatening emergencies coming in. Absolutely nothing was happening. There was a security guard and a warm body at the desk.

There were NO AMBULANCES coming in, no gurneys whizzing by the desk.

Absolutely nobody in front of me. This was a suburban hospital.

A slow trickle behind me of people who had walked in. I consider uncontrollable vomiting to be life threatening.

[bobbolink]

38. I'm very sorry what you endured. Too bad some are compassion challenged.

I"m very glad you were able to get to another hospital and be treated.

Your story reminds me of a sign a homeless man was holding..."If I was a dog, would you help me?"

Sadly, we care more for pets than we do for human beings!

Also sadly, this whole situation is NOT going to change until/unless people start complaining to those in power and DEMANDING Universal Single Payer Healthcare, instead of only complaining to each other.

[DocSavage]

47. end up in a crappy ER

well, you got somewhere that was better. I will stand by my argument because I used to be there for 10 hour shifts, for 3 years. I will just guess that I know more about what happens in an ER than you. Now, there is no reason for the staff to ignore you, while you have no idea what was going on in the back, we always tried to keep people appraised on how long it may be. That being said, the usual ER is used as a acute care clinic, which means everyone waits longer. Universal health care will no absolutly nothing about this. If you think it does, visit a military hospital that operates an ER on a weekend and see what is seen most. Trauma is not it.

[porphyrian]

28. Luckily, we are about to control Congress.

We have to let our representatives know this is important to all of us.

[RB TexLa]

29. I haven't died, but I don't always get medical treatment because

I don't WANT to pay for it, I'd rather keep the money.

[area51]

30. healthcare

I have a friend who was injured by undiagnosed type II diabetes; he couldn't afford to see a dr. for many years because he earned so little. Now he may have to try to get on govt. disability. Note to lurking nazi party members: by our country being barbaric and not wisely using tax dollars for universal healthcare like the civilized countries have, it causes people to have to stop working for a living and stop paying into our tax system. Do you really want to pay a bigger share of tax dollars because you're so arrogant that you refuse to admit that the govt. spending a small amount of money on preventative care -- with everyone having a right to see a dr. -- that would keep more people productive in the workforce?

[DocSavage]

31. Being in health care I will say this

No one has a right to see a doctor. No more than you have a right to see a lawyer, CEO of Starbucks, the Dali Lama or President Putin.

Seeing that you are going to pay for every one to see a doctor, what is the office visit worth? If the govt. pays less per visit than it costs, where does the difference come from? Are you going to force docs, NP, and PA's to see everyone that comes in the door? What if little town america only has one doc, but 50 people that day. What is an acceptable level of care?

Suppose someone does not want to use govt. insurance? Can they opt out? How about private hospitals and doctors for cash paying patients? What about expensive drugs? you going to impose price controls on the pharmaceutical industry?

These are not just arguments that you are going to hear from republicans (Nazi party members had no problem rationing health care, remember that there were a significant portion of the population that they did experiments on, and didn't really care about how long they lived) it is arguments that you will hear from both sides. Got any answers? Real easy to just say the govt is going to pay for it. Well, say I am a doctor and I do not like what the govt pays me. Do I have a choice, or am I going to be forced to take the rate?

[OzarkDem]

44. You must not be a doc, then

because most doctors would agree that access to affordable health care is a basic human right. I guess you play one on the internet.

Health care doesn't be long only to those who can afford it. If we are to be a productive and successful society, we need to find a way to cut the waste in the system and make the health care system work for everyone.

[DocSavage]

48. Never said I was a Doc,

Doc Savage comes from a pulp novel of the 40's. Now, While you put out that most doctors (define most) believe affordable heath care is a basic human right, I do not see that in practice. But that aside. My discussion in the post that I responded to asks one thing. To make it affordable, what do you pay the doctor. You did not answer that, nore have I seen anyone on any thread hear address the issue. How much is an MRI worth, how about a CBC?

Like I said, it is easy to say "Affordable Health Care" but some one has to have certain answeres.

[Bluerthanblue]

45. not to

pooh-pooh your points, but I would like to know why the tax dollars I pay go automatically to 'defend' me, (like the zillions that will pay for this Iraq malignancy)- but "the right to see a Doctor" is a 'privilege' not a 'right'????

Sorry, but f--k that- My Grandfather was a GP MD, who practiced medicine through the influenza epidemic of the early 1900's- the Depression, WWII, all the way up till the mid-60's- He lived to be 94 yrs of age, and practiced medicine until the last 8yrs of his life- He never turned a person away, raised 5 children, one who became a very well respected Surgeon, one who was a RN and married an MD- (internal medicine)- and has grand, and great grandchildren who are MD's-

America should hang its head in SHAME- for allowing it's citizens to languish and die because they don't have the 'connections'- money- or just plain luck- to be blessed with 'good insurance' or not face life threatening accidents or illness.

There should be a basic level of health care available to ALL people of America, without the stigma, prejudice or grovelling that exists today-

The biggest problem I see with our system is that Doctors are looked at as "Gods"- as if they are not every bit as human and fallible as every single person in the world- and 'fate' can mean that some people don't live through things that others do- Malpractice suits for sincere, gross negligence are appropriate, but no amount of money will bring a person back to life once they are dead, and all the malpractice suits in the world, won't make Doctors any less 'human' or fallible-

I'm un-insured- un-insurable- unable to earn enough to pay for the health care I need, and am going to die far sooner than I might have, had I been able to seek medical help, when I couldn't afford it.
That's the way life goes- but it is NOT acceptable for life to continue to go this way- Not in America- Not with the resources and skilled Professionals that we have-

Health Care Professionals deserve a LOT more respect, their work is vital, demanding, and difficult- but the people of this nation DESERVE to be able to have a chance to see a Physician, and seek care, regardless of their ability to pay-

:grr:

[AZBlue]

33. I haven't personally but family members have - and, yes, one did die.

eom

[MoseyWalker]

39. I'll speak for my brother's situation

Who here has been denied medical care because they couldn't pay for it?

He wasn't denied the brain tumor operation, but the financial hassles are ongoing and incredibly, what's the word, uh, fucked up. My brother carried insurance for the almost 20 years he worked and made decent money, and another 18 months after that with COBRA. He then was denied BC/BS. He had no insurance. The people at the hospitals, clinics and everywhere else are beginning to drive me nuts with their slimy, repuglike responses to my questions.

What if the problem you have is life threatening?

He should have been able to start chemo and radiation within 2 weeks. It is taking between 5 and 6 weeks for this to begin on a grade 4 glioblastoma. This is not right.

I've also been discriminated against because I'm disabled, and because I'm on SSDI.

I've assisted him with his SSDI application, but he'll most likely be dead before they approve it, and , I'm told, the medicare doesn't kick in for two years after approval. What about people who won't make it that long?

How widespread is this?

Everywhere

I have to make a choice soon regarding my Medicare, and I'm afraid to pay extra for extra coverage because around here I may not get it.

I wish you the best!

[MoseyWalker]

40. Conversation with a financial assistance person at the hospital today

her: he has to be spending his remaining money on legitimate expenses, and it has to be spent down to below 4k.

me: ok. what do you consider a legitimate expense?

her: I can't tell you.

me: you can't tell me?

her: no, I can't tell you.

This is an exact replication of a conversation I had with someone at the hospital today at which my brother was operated on.

[Bluerthanblue]

41. I gave up-

and I'll never get medicare- cause I didn't have enough 'points' when I became disabled- and as years have passed, I'd never catch up. Can't get insurance even if I could work at a job that was good enough to offer it- (pre-existing conditions) I'm basicly living out my life, paying for what care I can afford, and knowing that my time is short-
And I won't go back on SSI because I'm not willing to leave my sons destitute- this family farm is all I have to leave them- it's home, security, run-down, falling in, but home, and a refuge from this cold world-

Most folks who have been fortunate enough to have not needed health care much, or who have professions that allow them to always have Medical Insurance, don't understand what it is really like- to have to pay in cash,(check is acceptable, but it better not bounce)- an amount greater than an insurance Co- pays for the exact same procedure- (they contract out the care, and bargan for a better rate).

Terrorism is knowing that you will die because you can't afford treatment for disease/illness/health issues that the wealthy can be cured of without even having a 'co-pay'-

There are some incredibly kind health care Professionals, who have helped me live far longer than I'd eve thought possible- accepting a pittance for their patient, very high quality skills- but they can't perform miracles- and hospitals aren't as able to see the 'individual human being' that isn't gonna make it, and make the payment as well... so.... far more Americans will die each year from lack of health insurance/- Catastrophic Care - than died on 9/11- but we won't wage war on illness, injury, or health crisis'-

i'm gonna quit my ranting- we should care enough about each other, that no one dies for lack of adequate health care- or shelter- or food.... If 'we' are the "Best Country In the World"- why do let our 'people' suffer? Why are we so quick to give weapons to our 'friends'- and so slow to give life sustaining things.....

:nuke:

No one is getting out of this world alive- Even the wealthy and powerful will cease to breathe one day-

[KT2000]

43. That's really awful

I share your situation about not getting enough points before becoming disabled.
I also know the pain and frustration that is behind your post.

I think our system is set up to weed OUT the disabled for care and insurance coverage. It is also set up so that these things never make it into the statistics. Doctors do not really know how many people are turned away from their offices for lack of insurance and money.

Most people have no idea how bad things are for other people. They will yell bloody murder when their insurance rates increase but they have no idea how it works for those without. They are also under the mistaken impression that people somehow get free medical treatment if they are not insured. They think that all people have to do is go to the emergency room.

The public really needs to be educated about the facts - because it is horrendous. Maybe we should do that through letters to the editor etc. Somehow the greater public needs to know how this is working (not).

[hunter]

46. US healthcare is rotten, money or not.

It's often less rotten if you have money, but for a so-called "first world" nation, it's a smokey old Cadillac for the price of a Bugatti Veyron.

Health Scorecard Ranks U.S. on Lower Rungs
Lack of Medical Homes, Coverage Cited

By News Staff
9/25/2006

America spends twice as much for health care as other industrialized nations. For that investment, the United States has bought the highest infant mortality rate among 23 industrialized nations; one of the lowest healthy life expectancy rates for people older than age 60, some of the highest insurance administrative costs and among the lowest use of electronic health records, or EHRs.

http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/publications/news/news-now/health-of-the-public/20060925scorecard.printerview.html

Doctors like "DocSavage" above need to see the writing on the wall. The anti-union free market philosophy they still cling to will soon put them in the same category as other altruistic professionals such as teachers and social workers -- overworked, underpaid, and drowning in a tsunami of human misery -- except their livelyhoods will be controlled by faceless corporations answering to nobody but their stockholders; corporations that really don't give a damn if people fall through the safety net, including their own professional employees.

We need universal healthcare now. It's the only civilized thing to do.