Jamie McIntyre says Heritage Foundations says 73% of Troops are White &

[KoKo]

Middle Class and they were happy to sign up to fight in Iraq/Afghanistan.

On Tucker...Tucker says studies show Middle Class Hispanics are signing up and that shows that what Charlie Rangel is saying is just NOT TRUE!

Charlie came back on Tucker saying "whatever statistics are what they are but in "My" district they come from "inner city and rural" and they are the folks that no one cares about when they come home in body bags or disabled.

:shrug: Who is telling the truth here? What's interesting is that they talk about the KIDS and NOT the older NATIONAL GUARD who didn't sign up to FIGHT OVERSEAS. Even Charley can't get into THAT DEBATE...and no one asks.

Sad....

[etherealtruth]

1. Heck, if the heritage foundation says it true ...

... then it must be. Right wing think tanks never lie:sarcasm:

[KoKo]

5. Yes.. It seems the Think Tanks are the REAL Government and You and Me

are just "Pawns" in this Election Stuff. :eyes:

[bloom]

2. The ones that I know

that have gone (and signed up since 9.11) are white, middle to upper-middle class people.


But I don't know what the statistics are.

[Jack Rabbit]

3. That's the Heritage Foundation

That's a Scaife organization dedicated to lying with satatistics.

Now, give me some real scientific data.

[librechik]

4. The Heritage Foundation is lying with statistics here

but you'll have to ask someone who deals with the subject as to how. I just know they ALWAYS lie with statistics.

[AX10]

6. The Heritage Foundation is a right wing organization.

They do not give a damn less about working class people.

[shanti]

7. like we could believe

anything the heritage foundations writes :eyes:

[stanwyck]

8. Look, DUers, it doesn't serve any

purpose to not look honestly at who is serving in the military. Now, I'm not saying to take The Heritage Foundation's stats. But I have read several articles, including an exhaustive one by The New York Times which appeared when we invaded Iraq, on who serves in our military -- by age, race, gender, socio-economic background, and education.
My husband and I both got this one wrong: which branch of the service has the most college graduates? I guessed Air Force. He said either Air Force of Navy. We were both wrong. It's the Marines.
People join the military for a multitude of reasons -- not merely the economic security. But, that economic security is alluring right now - despite the huge risks. The economy, despite what the Bushies say, is not rosy for middle-class kids of military age. Even if they have college degrees. Most are under-employed and lack benefits. Bush may talk about creating new jobs. But we never have been told what they are. How much do they pay? And why do more than half of Americans still lack health benefits?
Middle-class kids enlist.
It's an option. A choice.
I'm not disputing what Rangel is saying about the kids in his district. He knows the circumstances for those kids better than I.
But the kids we know in the military, including my son, are from families who live in the 'burbs and whose family incomes are in the six figures. Most have at least a couple of years of college before enlisting.
Maybe if our economy was actually more robust, there wouldn't be so many middle-class kids enlisting. But, face it, the economy right now sucks for many people. And many of those people are right at enlistment age.
The real point is how these troops are deployed. For what reason. War should always be the absolute last resort when all other methods have been exhausted. That's the point. Not who has enlisted, but what happens after they enlist.
Do we lie them into an invasion? Do we keep them in the middle of a civil war to protect business interests?
This is what is critical.

[KoKo]

10. Thanks for your post...but what about those in the National Guard including

a 52 year old Grandmother who was killed in Iraq? I think the statistics are leaving out all those who never thought they'd be called up in their 40's and 50's and wasn't there even someone older posted on DU the other day?

How many besides the "young" are be called up to serve that would never have served in other wars because of age? When they are desperate we know they "fudge" the numbers and with so many NG serving how do we know the truth of anything? :shrug:

[stanwyck]

11. I think you've hit on a very under-reported

tragedy, that of the middle-aged people who have been recalled. These people, like my neighbor's son-in-law, are taking a huge financial hit along with the pain of being separated from their families. Often, like my neighbor's son-in-law, they're absent at a time when their children are teenagers, leaving one parent to shoulder that incredible responsibility. Plus, at a time when all financial resources are needed for college expenses, my neighbor's son-in-law is earning military pay - instead of his private sector salary. The backdoor draft is wrecking havoc on American families. The tours of duty are lasting longer and the possibility of battle fatigue and incurring physical and mental harm increases as the tours extend.
This is a mess. We have too few troops and they're exhausted.
But this is not a military made up of minority kids from lower-middle-class families. This is a military of middle-class Americans. There is no reason to pretend otherwise.

[Bucky]

13. middle class enlistees stay in the service longer

Of course you can fudge around with what you mean by "middle class", too. Lots of rural kids without a lot of job opportunties see the military as a way out of their hometowns, but they get counted as middle class. Another distortion of the statistic is that African American enlistees are statistically more likely to apply for the service support units in the military while Anglos and Hispanics are more likely to go for combat infantry jobs. Of course in Iraq just about every job is "front line" since bombers like to target transport trucks and in one tragic case an American military mess hall.

Playing race cards with this issue is time wasted, frankly. Rangel is remembering old data from Vietnam where blacks were disproportionally represented in the front line units. The real problem is that any Americans are over there at all in a country where their presense is inspiring more violence.

[stanwyck]

16. Excellent info, Bucky

The service is often encouraged to minorities as their "college" -- get training you can use after you're discharged. And I think, like you, that Rangel's take on who is serving is a bit dated. DUers need to quit parroting old misconceptions about the military. We just sound silly. The military situation today, and the specter of a draft, need serious consideration without the manufactured hyperbole of race and class warfare.

[harlinnchi]

9. The numbers I recall, albeit from about 1-2 years ago, mentioned that...

...the percentage enlistees who were Black dropped from 24 to 14 percent. The implication appeared to be that Blacks were not as patriotic as others. Now, considering that the percentage of the general population of the US that is Black is said to be about 11.5% while that of whites is said to be about 72%, (latinos - 12-14%, asians and others - 2 - 4%), then somebody isn't pulling their weight! When Blacks were at 24%, how 'patriotic' were we? Now that out numbers have dropped to 14%, how intelligent are we (or how stupid, in that our numbers still exceed those of our general population percentage)?

[seabeyond]

12. depends on his definition of middle class, 20k-30k middle class?

[Bucky]

14. I'm in the upper 30s and I feel dirt poor ("feel" being the operative word, obviously)

Of course I'm also a single parent--that's a pretty big factor here, I'd reckon.

[seabeyond]

15. 30k to raise a family is poor. cannot meet all obligations..... n/t