Someone please splain something to me about capital punishment...

[jhrobbins]

First, let me go on record as being against CP for myriad reasons. However, given the current debate in this country regarding lethal injection and its potential for 'cruel and unusual' elements, I am at a loss about something. I have had the unfortunate situation on several occasions to have to euthanize pets because of serious illnesses and it seemed to me to be VERY quick and VERY painless.
Why is this possible for animals and not for humans?


Reference the following article from the Nation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20061231/cm_thenation/20070108shapiro

[Buzz Clik]

1. Would you euthanize your grandmother or mother or similarly incapacitiated loved one?

[unblock]

2. possible is one thing. actual practice is another.

i don't disagree surely it's possible to end a life in a calm and pain-free fashion. however, i think the issue here is that that's not what the actual, standard chemical cocktail does.

[TahitiNut]

4. The "chemical cocktail" is more about the APPEARANCE than the suffering.

One of the primary ingredients is a paralytic drug (pavulon or pancuronium bromide)... making the condemned person incapable of twitching or struggling. In essence, then, the person is trapped inside and their suffering, to whatever degree it's happening, doesn't "offend the sensibilities" of the observers.

[No Exit]

3. I don't believe in it for animals, either.

So often I hear friends, etc., say "I had my pet put down because I didn't want him/her to suffer".

Bullshit. What they didn't want was to be further inconvenienced. I mean, I can understand not wanting the inconvenience and expense, but they might as well be honest about it.

[leftchick]

5. I put my thirteen year old dog to sleep

when her tumor in her belly ruptured and she was bleeding inernally. I have no doubt I eased some of her suffering in those last hours of her life. I didn't do it because I was "inconvenienced".

[jhrobbins]

13. Neither do I - if some people need to pass judgment...

they might be happy on Jerry Falwell's site.

[Solo_in_MD]

6. We had an dog that was in obvious pain and was suffering tremendously

since a canine morphine drip is not available, we put her down. It was not a matter of inconvenience or expense, but one of decency. We stayed with her through it as well.

[SmokingJacket]

8. I don't know about that.

My mother was happy to inconvenience herself for her dog -- she carried him outside to crap, all 80 or something pounds of him -- but what she couldn't stand was the way he began to moan in pain when she did it.

Do you really think that no one cares about the suffering of their pets? Some people are *very* into their animals.

[Rosemary2205]

10. You are mistaken.

In humans we have a variety of pain killers that can relieve suffering in dying humans without inflicting death. We do not have that luxury in pets. Pets do not respond well to long term use of pain killers.

[jhrobbins]

12. No one, and I mean NO ONE loves their animals more than I..

My partner and I are a part of animal rescue and each one of our 'children' is exactly that - our child. So don't tell me how I feel about my animals. I only hope that if I become as incapacitated someday that I am able to find a Dr. Kervorkian. It is a personal and private matter and I'm sorry I even posted the original post (which, BTW, was not the original question). So go ahead and let your beloved animal drag himself around on his two front legs when his back two cannot function anymore - that's a loving approach. AH

Also, regarding the expense - we went through a year and a half of chemotherapy with one of our cats and the expense was not insignificant and I would do it all over again if it would help.

[dmkinsey]

7. Big problem with lethal injection as a method of CP

is that the Hippocratic oath generally keeps qualified medically trained persons from administering the drugs. The people who perform that task are minimally trained and as recent events have shown, they are not always competent.

[haele]

17. Delete - posted in wrong place

Delete - my bad

Haele

[Rosemary2205]

9. It is possible.

We could give humans the same medication given to pets in a higher dosage of course but it would be much more expensive. Now, as to why we are too cheapass to train a real medical professional to start the IV's and too cheapass to pay for better drugs, I have no idea.

For the record, in a perfect world where only the truly guilty get executed I have no problem with the death penalty. I am of the odd mind that it's actually more humane than life without parole. But in our imperfect world, we just screw it up too much and executed the innocent - which I find unacceptable.

[jhrobbins]

15. This is really my position about the DP as well....

I know that George Bush has said that no innocent man was executed on his watch in Texas, but I don't believe that and I know that he doesn't have any way of being sure either

[dave_p]

11. It's knowing

Euthenasia's for the deceased's benefit. Execution is for the rest of us to feel better. Many of us don't.

And a peaceful departure isn't possible for humans, because we know what's being done to us. A euthenized animal doesn't. Even knowing you won't feel a thing isn't the point. It's about knowing you're going to be killed. Knowing the first drops of anaestetic are the last you'll ever feel. That revolts against every self-preservation mechanism that keeps us going. Forget passing on your genes to posterity, that's secondary, and some of us don't want to anyway. But survival is everything. That's why dying isn't easy, we're all built not to do it until our time's up. A cat doesn't know we've decided its time's up.

[TreasonousBastard]

14. You don't really know...

just how painless it really is for the animals. Truth is, we don't really know how painful any death is until we've experienced it. Shock, endorphins... all sorts of things come into play and any drugs administered add to the natural mix.

The main complaint with lethal injection is that since an anesthesiologist isn't supervising, the guards or whatever doing the deed may not dose properly and the convict is still awake when the nasties kick in. Makes one wonder why just a big ol' heroin OD isn't the ticket-- send him out with a smile.

This pain, of course, is not the central issue, since my fellow travellers in the anti-DP movement are using it as a foot in the door to abolish the DP completely and "cruel and unusual" is as good a foot as any. There are many who do actually feel for the convict's pain, but you'll note that nobody in the movement is suggesting a better way. Like the heroin OD or the instant and painless death of dropping a 2 ton rock on the head. Even hanging may be less painful than lethal injection-- with a good hanging you're out in under 10 seconds.

[Rosemary2205]

16. Your post made me laugh.

"Makes one wonder why just a big ol' heroin OD isn't the ticket-- send him out with a smile." and "with a good hanging you're out in under 10 seconds."


I know I should be be ashamed but I actually laughed out loud at those. Good writing......