US/Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement Released - And it's a doozy!!

[OregonBlue]

Social Security Agreement With Mexico Released After 3 1/2 Year Freedom of Information Act Battle


WASHINGTON, Dec. 29 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- After numerous refusals over three and a half years, the Social Security Administration (SSA) has released the first known public copy of the U.S.-Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement. The government was forced to make the disclosure in response to lawsuits filed under the Freedom of Information Act by TREA Senior Citizens League, a 1.2

The Totalization Agreement could allow millions of illegal Mexican workers to draw billions of dollars from the U.S. Social Security Trust Fund. The agreement between the U.S. and Mexico was signed in June 2004, and is awaiting President Bush's signature. Once President Bush approves the agreement, which would be done without Congressional vote, either House of Congress would have 60 days to disapprove the agreement by voting to reject it.

The U.S. currently has 21 similar agreements in effect with other nations, which are intended to eliminate dual taxation for persons who work outside their country of origin. All of the agreements are with developed nations with economies similar to that of the U.S.million-member nonpartisan seniors advocacy group.

For example, a worker who turns 62 after 1990 generally needs 40 calendar quarters of coverage to receive retirement benefits. Under totalization agreements, workers are allowed to combine earnings from both countries in order to qualify for benefits. The Agreement with Mexico, like other totalization agreements, would allow workers to qualify with just six quarters, or 18 months, of U.S. coverage.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20061229/pl_usnw/social_security_agreement_with_mexico_released_after31_2_year_freedom_of_information_act_battle

[NaturalHigh]

1. I will campaign against anyone...

who votes for this or doesn't speak out against it. Since when are we obligated to give away the US treasury to people who are breaking the law just by sneaking into this country?

[ret5hd]

2. My understanding is that this only applies to those here legally...

with a valid SSN/Taxpayer #.

on edit: i was wrong.

[OregonBlue]

3. Even if you were right, so a person works in Mexico for 20 years and

then works here for 18 months. They can then collect U.S. social security? What a deal for them. Americans can collect on Mexican social security but in Mexico, you only get what you actually put in plus interest. Bet there will be tons of Americans racing south to collect Mexican social security!! This is outrageous.

The Bush Administration wants to bankrupt social security in the worst way. This will do it!

[Selatius]

4. The fact that they stonewalled and didn't admit anything until FOIA requests illustrates...

that they know the American people would not sit well with this proposal. Mexico is a country ruled by a government that cares not for the interests of the poor but for the wealthy. They should not be allowed to shirk their responsibility to the welfare of their people simply by dumping their problem on someone else's dime. Mexico would've been better off with a leftist government in power. At least Latin American leftists invest in social programs to fight poverty.

This bill or agreement should've died the second they realized the major differences between the two social security systems.

[OregonBlue]

5. I want to know more about who wrote the agreement and who is sponsoring

it. Do the Dem candidates for President support it? Let's send to Lou and find out what he has to say!!

[theHandpuppet]

6. Great idea!

If anyone can put this in the public spotlight, it's Lou.

[OregonBlue]

7. Yah, he can get to the bottom of who is behind this move. Is it the

Dems or the Administration? I want to know.

[High Plains]

8. Yes, let's call out the nativist demagogues!

We have reciprocal agreements with a bunch of other countries. Why not Mexico? As it now stands, undocumented Mexican workers using fake or stolen social security numbers to get work pay into the system and don't get anything back.

I don't know all the details on this, what impact it will have on the system, etc., but I think in principal it is a good idea. Shouldn't workers--even undocumented ones--be able to get back what they put into the system?

[piedmont]

13. Read the article.

We have reciprocal agreements with a bunch of other countries. Why not Mexico?

Because we don't have a problem of a million illegal aliens a year coming from the other countries we have deals with, and because the other countries have similar economies and retirement systems.
From the article:
"But Mexico's retirement system is radically different than that of other participating countries. For example, only 40 percent of non-government workers participate in Mexico's system, whereas 96 percent of America's non- government workers do. In addition, the U.S. system is progressive, meaning lower wage earners get back much more than they put in; in Mexico, workers get back only what they put in, plus accrued interest."

This would be a HUGE incentive for more illegal immigration.


As it now stands, undocumented Mexican workers using fake or stolen social security numbers to get work pay into the system and don't get anything back.

And they shouldn't. Because they commit FRAUD to get those jobs.


I don't know all the details on this, what impact it will have on the system, etc., but I think in principal it is a good idea. Shouldn't workers--even undocumented ones--be able to get back what they put into the system?

Not workers who break the law to enter the country, break the law to steal SSNs, and break the law to work.

[texanshatingbush]

16. Illegal immigration is a problem with many dimensions.....

I would be willing to bet that illegal Mexican aliens already receive 'way more $$$ than they put into the Social Security System, simply by using hospital emergency rooms as their primary physicians. These services are provided by each hospital district, and each hospital district is a taxing entity which taxes the citizenry in order to fund each hospital's operating costs. Same with school district expenses--paid for by the taxpayer, where the education cost for ONE student is generated by the property taxes from a house valued at $175,000. People who live in apartments don't fund the school system. These are but two examples I have seen first-hand in my small Texas community. And then there's the impetus for trafficking in illegally obtained personal ID information which is driven by illegal immigration. I had my purse stolen, and I live in fear that one day I will be billed by the IRS for someone illegally using my ID info in a job, or to open a credit account, etc.

In short, illegal immigration has many hidden and deleterious costs associated with it--paid by innocent people who have not broken any laws.

[Bridget Burke]

18. No need to call them out--they're already here!

The group sponsoring this news flash is the TREA Senior Citizens League--a lobbying group that's already had some "problems." They made money from the lie that "notch babies" were being cheated out of Social Security.

In recent years, the National Committee has progressed to more legitimate issues while the notch banner has been resurrected by the TREA Senior Citizens League. According to IRS documents, the Senior Citizens League raised $46-million from 1997 through 2000.

One ploy was a "Notch Victim Register," which seemed to imply that signing up could somehow grease the skids as soon as a notch reform bill passed - as if the Social Security Administration would ever work through the Senior Citizens League....

Three years ago, the TREA Senior Citizens League came under congressional investigation after thousands of bogus fliers appeared in churches, nursing homes and community centers.

One flier, disseminated at black churches, promised $5,000 in "slavery reparations" if people would sign up with the TREA Senior Citizens League's "National Victim's Registrar." Another flier said, "You may be entitled to receive $5,000 due to inequities in your Social Security payments . . . Social Security will not contact "notch babies,' so they should write to the National Victim Register."

Both fliers directed people to mail their personal information to the Senior Citizens League's post office.

www.sptimes.com/2004/11/30/Seniority/The_myth_of_the_notch.shtml

The agreement says nothing about "illegal" workers.

Our generation has been reproducing slowly (hey, I didn't do my duty.) We need immigrants who will work & pay into social security--& get their own share when the time comes.

[OregonBlue]

20. Please read what the article actually says. If someone works in Mexico

for 20 years and then comes to the U.S. (legally or illegally) they only have to work for 6 quarters or 18 months here in order to qualify for U.S. Social Security. So they've been paying in a paltry amount in Mexico, a country where they only get what they pay in plus interest, but now they can claim on U.S. social security. How much have they paid in in the 6 quarters or 18 months they worked here? Would anyone in their right mind decide to collect on the meager funds they had in Mexico instead of collecting on the substantial funds they would get in the U.S.?

Why do you think they should be able to collect U.S. Social Security for the rest of their lives after having worked here for 18 months?

Please note that the other countries that we have agreements with have similar or better programs than ours. Those workers are much more likely to claim on their own countries, not ours.

This is obviously designed to bankrupt the U.S. system.

[IndyOp]

9. Breaking Social Security to destroy FDR's legacy.

Bush refers to everything FDR did as "socialism" --

[mopinko]

10. trying to get their hands on a bigger pie? privatization?

i would have to suspect that the point of this is to make their pie higher before the dig into it. a multinational grab for retirement funds.

[ooglymoogly]

12. add to that the easy buying of "leagal documents" in mexico

so that means any mexican worker who comes from mexico will already have 18 years of mexican work records within the boundaries of what is believable age wise. by this mexico will have access to bullions of dollars at the expense of U.S. elderly citizens who have paid into the system all their lives for their retirement. talk (propaganda) of limiting benefits is already rampant in order to "save the system"

[w4rma]

11. Congress had better reject this. This is a horrible contract for Americans.

And then Congressfolks who voted to reject it should run on this issue against anyone who didn't.

[piedmont]

14. k&r

[judaspriestess]

15. k & r

[rman]

17. kick

[a kennedy]

19. This is outragious.....

:kick:

[Bridget Burke]

21. So--how can we read the agreement?

This story is formatted as a Press Release, beginning "To: POLITICAL EDITORS; Contact: Brad Phillips, [phone], for TREA Senior Citizens League."

If this august organization is so eager that word get out, why haven't they just posted the whole thing online? All we're seeing is interpretation.

Under both Totalization and "guest worker" amnesty, millions of immigrants who are currently in this country illegally would gain access to work-authorized Social Security numbers. According to estimates by the Center for Immigration Studies, the Totalization Agreement alone could drain hundreds of billions from Social Security. TSCL believes that this would trigger benefit cuts for other retirees who earned their benefits legally.

www.tscl.org/NewContent/102756.asp

Here, several issues are being conflated. And the Center for Immigration Studies is a well-known anti-immigration group. (They don't like the legal ones much, either. Unless they're white.)

The TREA Senior Citizens League first won fame campaigning about the "Notch Generation." The fogies at AARP think this is a fake issue. (Yes, TREASCL used the Notch to solicit funds from retirees.)

www.aarp.org/money/social_security/a2003-03-26-ssnotch.html

This is NOT a news story.

[lovuian]

22. Anybody who signs this is a traitor

to this country