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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:23 AM
Original message
George W. Bush Is Going To Bomb Iran
note: this was originally posted at Smirking Chimp, where I usually post

George W. Bush is going to bomb Iran. This is the purpose of the "surge". No amount of troops is going to fix Iraq; they couldn't if they tried. If Bush wanted to fix Iraq, he'd give them jobs. People who are employed in decent jobs can figure out how to live with their neighbors. More American troops in the Persian Gulf are not going to quell violence in Iraq any more than the ones already there are.

George W. Bush is going to bomb Iran. And there may be almost nothing we can do to stop it.

Iran has a single trump card - their nuclear program. I share the doubts that Bush can destroy the whole thing. There will be no repeat of Israel's surgical removal of the nuclear ambitions of Saddam Hussein. But Bush can take out enough of Iran's nuclear facilities to knock them back a few more years in the development of a feasible weapon. That is all he needs to bomb - that is, until Iran makes its move.

And that's what the surge is for. Ostensibly, it's about Iraq. Nobody thinks that Iraq needs more American soldiers. And it doesn't today. But Bush is sending them anyway, because he knows what he's about to do, and Iraq is going to need more soldiers when the Shiite forces sympathetic to Iran erupt in violence.

The first attack in this final war against Iran has already occured. You read about it, I'm sure. The White House excised a number of passages from an op-ed in the New York Times that talked about the history of this administration's secret negotiations with Iran. Any mention of Iran's critical help in forming the Afghan government now in place? Gone. Any word of Bush's constant double-dealing with the Iranians over people you may not have heard of, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and the Mujaheddin-e Khalq? Blacked out. And any mention of Iran's 2003 offer to put everything on the table, including recognition of Israel? The Times and the two authors of the piece, Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann, were threatened with criminal prosecution if they were to put words like that into print.

I know about all of this "secret" material, because none of it was secret. Leverett and Mann published their sources, all mainstream media with the exception of a report or two from Leverett's think tank, the Century Foundation. All of the things marked out of this op-ed by the White House are in the public domain. And yet the Bush Administration felt so threatened by this op-ed that they pulled out their little black markers and crossed out any hint of a peace-seeking Iran being played by a cynical America for all it could get.

Why? Because Bush is about to bomb Iran. Any talk of how Iran was making some genuine offers for peace (back before they were spinning any centrifuges) and how Iran was working with the United States to bring stability to the region, all of that is counterproductive. The Bush Administration isn't a slave to reality - it makes reality.

A reality to be ignored: Before 9/11, Iran had built up a large number of contacts among the various Afghan warlords. After 9/11, the Iranians worked those connections above and beyond in cooperation with the United States to stabilize Afghanistan under the interim government. James Dobbins, a participant in that accomplishment, explains:

Two weeks after the fall of Kabul, all the major elements of the Afghan opposition came together at a U.N.-sponsored conference in Bonn. The objective was to create a broadly based successor government to the Taliban. As the U.S. representative at that gathering, I worked both with the Afghan delegations and with the other national representatives who had the greatest influence among them, which is to say the Iranian, Russian and Indian envoys. All these delegations proved helpful. None was more so than the Iranians. On two occasions Iranian representatives made particularly memorable contributions. The original version of the Bonn agreement, drafted by the United Nations and amended by the Afghans who were present, neglected to mention either democracy or the war on terrorism. It was the Iranian representative who spotted these omissions and successfully urged that the newly emerging Afghan government be required to commit to both.

The second was even more decisive. The conference was in its final hours. The German chancellor was due to arrive momentarily for the closing ceremony. Yet we still lacked agreement on the central issue: composition of an interim Afghan government. The Northern Alliance was insisting on 18 of 25 ministerial portfolios, which would have marginalized other opposition groups. From 2 a.m. to 5 a.m. the four key envoys -- those from Washington, Tehran, Moscow and New Delhi -- worked along with the U.N. representative, Lakhdar Brahimi, and our German host to persuade the recalcitrant Northern Alliance delegate to make the necessary compromises.

Two weeks later President Hamid Karzai and his new cabinet were inaugurated in Kabul. The most senior foreign delegation was headed by Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi, who had stopped in Herat on his way in to pick up the one warlord, Ismail Khan, whose attendance and support for the new government was most in doubt. At the Tokyo donors' conference the following month, Iran pledged $500 million in aid to Afghan reconstruction, by far the largest sum from any neighboring state or developing nation.


(That's from Dobbin's May 2004 op-ed in the Washington Post, by the way. I had to buy a monthly pass to get it, but it's all open source, it's public domain. No classified information was released in the publishing of that article.)

Later on, Iran was asked by Karzai and Washington to keep a particularly nasty anti-American cleric Gulbiddin Hekmatyar in their country. Washington wanted Iran to keep him close, keep him safe. Tehran agreed, but they asked that Washington not accuse them of harboring terrorists. That would be a pretty nasty trick, don't you think? Ask a country to keep a terrorist under the equivalent of house arrest, and then accuse them openly of supporting terrorists?

Bush did so. Not six weeks after the Bonn negotiations, not a month after the Hekmatyar request, Bush declared Iran a member in good standing of the "axis of evil".

Hekmatyar left Iran soon after. As the redacted op-ed says, "the Islamic Republic could not be seen to be harboring terrorists." A year later, Bush got to designate him a terrorist. He's still in Afghanistan, and while he thinks the recent defeat of Republicans is proof that America will be pushed out of Afghanistan like the Soviets, he's endorsing George W. Bush for a third term. Bush is our Brezhnev, he says. He's great for business.

After all, look how Bush handled the Mujaheddin-e Khalq (MEK). MEK is "an Iranian opposition group based in Iraq... that is on a U.S. State Department list of terrorist groups." Saddam used these guys to pull off attacks in Iran. The United States had been meeting regularly with Iran after 9/11, working out day-to-day matters in the region. The Washington Post reports:

At one of the meetings, in early January, the United States signaled that it would target the Iraq-based camps of the Mujaheddin- e Khalq ...After the camps were bombed, the U.S. military arranged a cease-fire with the group, infuriating the Iranians. Some Pentagon officials, impressed by the military discipline and equipment of the thousands of MEK troops, began to envision them as a potential military force for use against Tehran, much like the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan.


We told Tehran we would target a terrorist organization, and then we decided that the terrorists might be able to help us take out Tehran. Let that sink in a minute.

Armitage said it was a mistake for the U.S. military to have arranged a cease-fire agreement with the MEK during the war, a decision that alarmed Iran. "We shouldn't have been signing a cease-fire with a foreign terrorist organization," he said.


Wow, Richard. You think?

The United States then told Iran on May 3 that they were going to disarm MEK. We also discussed exchanging prisoners, al-Qaeda members in custody in Iran for MEK prisoners in Iraq. But Armitage "ruled out such a deal":

..."because we can't be sure of the way they'd be treated," referring to the MEK members. He said officials were questioning MEK members to determine who had terrorist connections. "In my understanding, a certain number of those do," he said, adding that they will face charges.


Hold that thought. Hold the thought that Iran had been given our word that we would target the MEK. Hold onto the thought that we'd instead started touting them as a force to help topple Iran. Hold onto the thought that we'd then given our word about disarming these terrorists, although we wouldn't do any prisoner exchanges, not even for al-Qaeda prisoners.

You still don't have the full context, yet:

Just after the lightning takeover of Baghdad by U.S. forces..., an unusual two-page document spewed out of a fax machine at the Near East bureau of the State Department. It was a proposal from Iran for a broad dialogue with the United States, and the fax suggested everything was on the table -- including full cooperation on nuclear programs, acceptance of Israel and the termination of Iranian support for Palestinian militant groups.


Everything was on the table. Everything. Peace in the Middle East. George W. Bush had it in his hand.

What did we do? We scolded the Swiss diplomats who had passed it on to us, and then we started making nice with terrorists who hated Iran.

Nine days after the May 3rd meeting in which we promised to disarm MEK, terrorist bombings erupted in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. The US blamed Iran, and cut off talks. Some other countries tried to get the United States and Iran back to the table but failed.

Did you go to the link? Because today, it's clear who did those attacks: al-Qaeda. Hekmatyar's compatriots. Osama's army. The terrorists who attacked us on 9/11.

Not Iran.

Bush has never wanted peace with Iran. There will be no win-win situation with this president and Iran, because Bush is playing to win on his terms alone, the way that he was able to play Libya's recent capitulation to the West.

But Iran's not doing the Gaddafi shuffle. It's always had more support in the region than Gaddafi ever did. Iran's been a fly in the American ointment since 1979. And now, after being rebuffed repeated in a quest for peace, Iran is back on the nuclear path.

So people, get ready. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid can talk all day long about the first hundred hours. We can start considering our options for the 2008 presidential primary. Hey, what are your plans for the New Year?

George W. Bush is going to bomb Iran.

Any references not linked in this piece are to Washington Post articles available only for a price on the web. They are from Leverett and Mann's citations, and are:

“Iran’s Leader Condemns Saudi Attacks,” The Washington Post, May 15, 2003

“Time to Deal With Iran,” The Washington Post, May 6, 2004

“In 2003, U.S. Spurned Iran’s Offer of Dialogue: Some Officials Lament Lost Opportunity,” The Washington Post, June 18, 2006

“U.S. Ready to Resume Talks With Iran, Armitage Says,” The Washington Post, Oct. 29, 2003

“U.S. Eyes Pressing Uprising in Iran: Officials Cite Al Qaeda’s Link, Nuclear Program,” The Washington Post, May 25, 2003
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sobering assessment.
Even if you think 9/11 conspiracy people are nuts, I really don't see how they compare with the sociopath who may now jumpstart WW3. I wonder how the skeptics will feel about that? Bush, defended as a victim on 9/11, but an event that enabled him to march us to this point?
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. k&r nt.
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Kiouni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. ahhh shit.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
4. Ritter and Hersh agree.
Edited on Tue Jan-02-07 04:03 AM by Contrite
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Now it's my turn to say aw shit.
2/3rds through the interview. Solid gold. Wish I'd seen this before I wrote the article.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
45. I hope they convinced you Iran doesn't have a nuclear WEAPON
or even a viable program for a nuclear WEAPON yet. It's just the same fantastical lies as the previous script.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. They more than confirmed my suspicion of that.
There are problems with Iran, I do believe that. It's not like they're innocent little doves. But Ritter does a good job of laying out just exactly how they are Israel's problem and not truly the United States'.

I'm also looking for stats on Iran's oil exports. According to the CIA, Iran depends way too much on their oil exports for foreign cash. So right there, a potential strength is actually a weakness. Iran can't afford to turn off the oil spigots for too long. The CIA figures account for just under 60% of their exports. The lion's share goes to Japan (16.6% of Iranian exports), and then China (11%). I don't know how much that is of Japan and China's imports of oil, but it looks substantial. If Iran doesn't use nuclear potential, they have nothing else but terror to persuade people to a solution acceptable to them.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #49
64. Word has it, Saudi Arabia will conitnue to pump at a hi level
To drive down the price of oil, to weaken Irans ability to expidite their nuke program.

DO you thikn we could use that sand for Solar PV panels? LOL.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
5. I've been waiting for something to happen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFowNFvmUxw

I've been waiting for something to happen
For a week or a month or a year
With the blood in the ink of the headlines
And the sound of the crowd in my ear
You might ask what it takes to remember
When you know that youve seen it before
Where a government lies to a people
And a country is drifting to war

And theres a shadow on the faces
Of the men who send the guns
To the wars that are fought in places
Where their business interest runs

On the radio talk shows and the t.v.
You hear one thing again and again
How the u.s.a. stands for freedom
And we come to the aid of a friend
But who are the ones that we call our friends--
These governments killing their own?
Or the people who finally can't take any more
And they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone
There are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire

Theres a shadow on the faces
Of the men who fan the flames
Of the wars that are fought in places
Where we cant even say the names

They sell us the president the same way
They sell us our clothes and our cars
They sell us every thing from youth to religion
The same time they sell us our wars
I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
But they're never the ones to fight or to die
And there are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire


ush's Inconceivable Interest in Iran Sat Apr-01-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=819437

Senior U.S. Officials “Want to Hit Iran” Tue Apr-04-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=844418

Larisa Alexandrovna: CHENEY TAPS IRANIAN ARMS DEALER FOR IRAN TALKS Thu Apr-20-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=977234

Seymour Hersh said something startling about Rumsfeld on Democracy Now Fri Aug-18-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1936421

So former DLC, PNAC member Abram Shulsky feeding Cheney info on Iran? Sat Aug-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1944614

Fuck. Iran has started "war games." Escalation may only be expected. Sun Aug-20-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1949812

Attack on Iran is Coming Sun Aug-27-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1993284

"Grave threat". Yes, it's deja vu all over again. Thu Aug-31-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2022620

UN attacks US nuclear report on Iran erroneous misleading unsubstantiated Sun Sep-17-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2159951

We Are Conducting Military Operations Inside Iran Right Now Tue Sep-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2168218

Navy told: Prepare to blockade Iran by Oct 1 Mon Sep-18-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2161779

Pentagon Iran Office Mimics Former Iraq Office Wed Sep-20-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2179484

“This is the largest massing of military power in the region, and it is gathering for a reason.” Sat Nov-18-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2753952

Seymour Hersh: Cheney Says 'Whether Or Not Dems Win-NO STOPPING Military Option With Iran' Sun Nov-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2757350

Does anyone still believe the US will launch a full scale invasion of Iran? Mon Dec-04-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2856177

Saudi clerics rally support for Sunnis and Saudi ambassador Abruptly Resigns Tue Dec-12-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2902643

Act III in a Tragedy of Many Parts - The US Occupation of Iraq Sun Dec-17-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2935498

Century Foundation Iran White Paper Series Fundamentalists, Pragmatists and the Rights of the Nation Tue Dec-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2948146

Oh shit Tue Dec-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2944423
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
6. I think you're wrong.
Folks have been insisting, for approximately 8 months, that bush's attack on Iran is imminent. georgie would undoubtedly love to bomb Iran, but he has virtually no support for it. Not from the military, not from Congress and not from the public. Furthermore there's no support for a troop escaslation in Iraq. Bombing Iran is georgie's ticket to impeachment- and conviction.

Yes he'd love to do it- but he missed his opportunity.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I hope I'm wrong.
But the escalation is happening.

And the Leverett-Mann op-ed was censored, even though everything was in the public domain.

Check out the Hersh interview of Ritter above.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Since when has the lack of support from the military....
Congress and the American public stopped Bush from doing anything he has his black heart set upon? And he IS going ahead with his "surge", even though no one supports it. After all, he's "the decider". :puke:
One little manufactured incident would be all it would take to give "the decider" what he feels is the right to bomb Iran. Hell, he doesn't even need that. "I'm the commander-see, I don't need to explain-I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being President". Right from the deranged brain and mouth of our beloved leader. :sarcasm:
In Bush's mind he still has a mandate to take this country on any course he so desires. He's a fucking madman. There's not a doubt in my mind that he WILL attack Iran, probably by "surgical" airstrikes at the very least. Israel is putting immense pressure on him to do it, he WANTS to do it and he's demonstrated that he has absolutely no concern for the after effects of his lame-brain actions.
I say he does it, and sooner, not later.

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. I do worry about
a manufactured incident, to be sure, but past is not always prologue, even with bush. It's true he's predictably crazy/stubborn/stupid/war mongering/desperate, but he's never been is such deep shit before. And I'm unconvinced he'll get his "surge".
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Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. He is probably hoping hoping that the provocative manner
of Saddam's death will provoke a massive attack on US forces that will mean he'll get his extra troops. And extra troops may mean one more duck lines up for him re Iran.

Though I agree with you that he must have minimal support for this madness. Surely...
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
32. We are one Gulf of Tonkin-style incident away from bombing Iran.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
55. ...or one 9/11-style incident away from bombing Iran....
It would probably be a two stepper:

1.) Openly piss off Iran.

2.) Blame a false-flag attack on Hezbollah.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
33. I tend to agree.
n/t
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
54. It's been a lot longer than 8 months.
There have been "Bush is gonna attack Iran" threads for nearly 2 years, and we'll see them until January 2009, and perhaps even later.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
63. Once the bombs start dropping, it is no turning back.
Edited on Tue Jan-02-07 11:56 PM by alfredo
The airforce, you know the ones who proposed testing new weapons on Americans, has pretty much been out of action since Shock and Awe. They want back in. They want to play too. The Navy hasn't had that much to do lately either.

The neo cons are good at forcing the issue. They like putting us in a place where we can't back down. They like creating crisis that we can't ignore.

If bush is going to do it, we won't know until the planes are in the air.


I really don't think he is worried about impeachment or being held accountable for his crimes. He never has been held accountable for anything before. He is invulnerable.


Not sure if he will do something as stupid as bomb Iran, but he's not right in the head.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
9. Britain and U.S. to add ships to Persian Gulf in signal to Iran
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/21/africa/web.1221navy.php

at present there are about 45 warships deployed in the Persian Gulf and waters across the region from the Red Sea to the Indian Ocean, with a third of those supplied by allies, which this month include Australia, Bahrain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Pakistan and Britain.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. 45 WARSHIPS
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. It all depends upon the Carriers
If there is to be an attack you will see more than two in the area. Nothing will happen until that number reaches at least 4 and probably 6. One or two are more saber rattling, when you see a third or fourth in the general area (Kitty Hawk out of Japan perhaps or a quick turn around for Enterprise, early deployment of the Truman, etc., then start to be concerned).
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Then there won't be an attack
Only the Eisenhower is there now. Odds are the Stennis joins in February.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. USS Enterprise just returned to Norfolk in early December
and they are scheduled to go right back out this month. The guys were out for 6.5 months and only are going to get about one month of down time. That's an incredibly fast turn around. I'm not sure were they are being deployed to?

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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
51. Sherman A1, I agree wholeheartedly
Edited on Tue Jan-02-07 10:06 PM by FogerRox
If we see 4+ carrier groups, and more importantly 6-8-10 LA class atck subs, then there is reason to crap. BTW LA class attack subs are probably the best tomahawk launching platform. ANd the Pentrator variant Tomahawk is probably the best bunker buster we have. See my journal.

And some background @ Kos:
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/12/23/11152/873/17#c17

The real problem is that we really dont have the military capability to seriously set back the Iranian Nuke program. Instalations buried in 1000 ft of rock are pretty much untouchable. The best we can do is to bomb the entrance doors.

My bet is that the Syria, Israel & Saudi Arabia are working double time to keep the Iraqi issue from boiling over into a regional conflict. As well as Russia and China. I see a well written OP that doesnt speak to the goal or endgame. What does Bush wish to acomplish by bombing Iran?

The OP suggests its about taking out Irans nuke program. 3.5% enrichment is not really a reason to bomb. Our ability to take out 1000 ft deep bunkers is nill. I have been trying to wrap my brain around this issue for months... what are the Neo Cons really thinking about with regards to Iran? And Why.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Thank you all for these comments.
I want to dig more into goals and endgame too. However, Bush had no endgame for invading Iraq - or rather, he claims to have an endgame 40 or 50 years out. If he's betting that it's in everyone's interest to keep the place from boiling over into outright war, then maybe a limited strike on the nuclear sites we do know about is something he thinks he can weather any potential reaction from the globe about.

It's not about permanently taking out Iran's nuclear capabilities, it's about a strategic setback. Without viable nukes any time soon, Iran only has oil and terrorism. Oil is both Iran's strength and weakness, and terrorism is a losing game.

Is it the opinion of the people on this subthread that a limited strike on Iran's known nuclear sites is unsustainable by two carriers? I'm thinking three targets - the conversion plants at Isfahan and Natanz and the heavy water plant at Arak. Could Bush take these three sites out with the military he will have in place after the escalation?
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. OK 3 targets, but maybe really 15 targets
via GLobal security. IMHO The best bunker buster we have is the Tomahawk penatrator. The most flexible launch platform for the Tomahawk is the LA class subs. SO I stress the potential collection of LA cass subs. Not carrier groups.

I try to look at the Weapon systems, what bombs we have- what they can blow up, and what can deliver them, and how you deliver them. ANd then think like a general.
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mconvente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #61
69. Gulf of Tonkin anyone...
Ah, the eerie and horrible similarities brewing...
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. He has to make sure his wars for oil & profit continue...no better way than
bombing Iran and creating a world catastrophe.
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Dr Batsen D Belfry Donating Member (650 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. Not so sure here
Yes, he would love to do it, but there is no support from anywhere.

Why then the troop surge and the carriers?

1) 101st has already deployed to Kuwait for a backup role? Be serious. The 101st is not for backup.
2) Increase troops to make it look like we are going after Iran.
3) Use troopps to go after Al Sadr and the Mehdi Militia
4) Use one carrier as air support for this mission
5) Use two carriers to air cover to prevent Shia allies from coming in from Iran
6) Send the message to the Sunni Triangle they are next

Just a guess, but I am not buying going after Iran. Our leadership is stupid, but they are not this stupid.

DBDB
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
37. No, they are not stupid
But they are blinded by their own PNAC ideology. I think too many people are looking at these events with myopic vision. There are sweeping, military plans in place that are currently right on target (pun not intended). Military spending is exactly where the administration wants it. Military bases in Iraq will remain permanent. Iran is on the radar and anyone who wants to know the rest of the story need only read the articles located at this link:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/defensenationalsecurity.htm

The Seymour Hersch/Scott Ritter interview listed above at Democracy Now is quite interesting. His views on the fermentation of the PNAC neocons during the Clinton years echoes what what I saw this weekend in the movie "Why We Fight". Think tanks have become a dangerous and powerful force in this country. Combine that with the interests of the military-industrial complex, and you've got assured, longterm war plans for our country.

I hope we don't go to war with Iran. I am afraid we will. This being the true reason for increased deployment does make sense. Let's hope the democrat majority can do something to stop this madness.
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Mister Ed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. Democratic majority...
...and not democrat majority.

Please forgive my small quibble with your otherwise spot-on post. We have to keep from repeating this sneaky slur that the right-wing media propagates, though. Or else start calling them the Publican minority.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
40.  I am troubled by this
I have been for quite some time .

One thing that troubles me is these posts keep coming up on this subject and I have heard liberal talk shows bring this up so it is something that does not seem to be going away .

I also feel troubled because as far as I am aware all the options are still on the table . I don't feel people just make this stuff up .

Many feel bush is not crazy enough or that he has been stopped somehow , well I don;t think bush is the only one behind this there is a more powerful force out there .

Bush is in my opinion crazy enough and so far I can't find any real reason to believe he can be stopped unless one buys into the dems really being capable of doing what they say . I can't say I feel all that confident in any political party these days .

My take on the dems is that they were willing to pass almost all the freaks that the repubs wanted in high places such as Condi , Roberts , Hayden , Hernadez and so on .

I liked Clinton for the most part but now I feel both Clintons are in fact liers and had not supported my views .

So with just this I do feel it is quite possible that the US may attack Iran sooner than later .

When I sit here and I read or hear about the future and all the grand plans I begin to question this . Is this future just a hope to keep the people going , another lie , or what ?

I also don't feel most americans are awake to the real threats , most just go on with their day to day lives hoping they somehow won't be affected and only others will continue to loose all and suffer in their names .

I suppose we shall see soon enough what the outcome of all of this speculation will be . We have few facts as always .
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
65. Dr Batsen D Belfry, interesting take, you have
I like it.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
15. the shrub would like nothing more than to nuke someone . . . anyone . . .
make no mistake -- he has the toys, and he desperately wants to play with them before he leaves office . . .

he may, in fact, see the use of nuclear weapons as an excuse to stay IN office . . . by, say, declaring a state of emergency and cancelling the 2008 elections . . .

whether he'll actually be able to use them -- given his lack of support among the citizenry, in Congress, and across the globe -- is another matter altogether . . .
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rollopollo Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
18. Excuse me...
...while I hurl. I traced a similar downward trend between US-Iran since 9/11 but especially after Bush's State of the Union where he lumped Iran into an Axis of Evil.

The problem to me though is clear. As soon as the media begins its drumbeat in painting Ahmenajaid (sp?) as America's enemy #1, Reid and Co. and half of the Democrat party will fall in line. We will never go to war if the Right alone supports it- they cannot drag us alone...they make up 30% of the population. However, enough of us will say "we cannot accept Iran as a nuclear power" and "we will not take force off the table". The UN will state in 6 months that Iran is in violation of the latest sanctions. This will be used as pretext for a bombing strike...and we will be taken again, having aided and abetted the process. History will repeat itself. Wars are always popular in the first week.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Democratic Party
Welcome to the Democratic Underground. :hi:
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
46. Another welcome. May you live well and prosper in 2007
Edited on Tue Jan-02-07 09:19 PM by truedelphi
>>The UN will state in 6 months that Iran is in violation of the latest sanctions. This will be >>used as pretext for a bombing strike...and we will be taken again, having aided and abetted the >>process. History will repeat itself. Wars are always popular in the first week.

That's so true. We repeat history ad nauseum - and I have already heard so many of these Dems say things that they do indeed fear Iran and its nuclear capability.

Maybe we should attack Iran, Maybe not.

BUT DEFINITELY NOT WHILE BIRDBRAIN IS STILL COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

Experts say that Iran is five and a half years away from nuclear bomb capability. SO let's get bird brain out and then decide on the issue.

(OOPS - I just really insulted birds - some of whom are extremely intelligent,and many if not all of whom serve a noble purpose.)
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #46
67. truedelphi, excellent point, let us not forget this point
BUT DEFINITELY NOT WHILE BIRDBRAIN IS STILL COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

None of the Cabal can be trusted. Period. Even if you wanted to go to war, you cant trust the cabal to run a good war, they will fuck it up.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
20. Don't forget that Hekmatyar was our fairhaired boy during the 80s
He was the main recipient of US and Pakistani financial support--Osama was only invited to the party because he brought his own money.

Syria was also pretty helpful after 9-11, because they had done extensive infiltration of Al Qaeda. They quit passing us info after Shrubbie started the saber rattling.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
23. Well done.
I think that there are forces within the Bush administration who are attempting to push an open air attack on Iranian "targets." These forces do not enjoy the exact same positions and circumstances as they did in 2002, when they advocated the attack on Iraq. But they still maintain more power than is visible at the surface, and the danger of a conflict erupting is very real.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
24. Oh stop it, BushCo isn't going to get away with this shit with Dem-controlled House & Senate
Not like the blank check of yesteryear. If they do, we should drive them ALL out of DC!! Run them out on a rail. :mad: :mad:
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Kinda like everyone thought he'd be insane to invade Baghdad, right?
I have no confidence. None.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I'd like to think we're on to this moron now.
Edited on Tue Jan-02-07 11:24 AM by 48percenter
The Dems are NOT going to give him anymore blank checks. If they do, you can spank me. (Is that sufficient punishment for believing in the Democrats?)
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
25. Contact Congress against attack on Iran.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
57. Done!
(We Minnesotans believe in direct action.)

Everyone should also call their representatives and fax or write letters against this initiative.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #57
82. Thank you. NT
NT
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
26. Congress should demand removal of all military personel from the area.
Sorry, I haven't read the entire post nor the entire thread. It's just that I also await Iran's little accidental move against any one of our threatening military machines in or around their country.

Of course the military has it's hands in everything, and could never be asked to leave. And of course they are there not for us citizens, but for the corporations.

Get out of the Middle East now! Will Congress have any ability to stop what this administration is try9ing to do?
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newportdadde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
27. The post assumes Bush isn't stupid and the 'surge' has an actual purpose and that is invading Iran
First up Bush is that stupid, he probably in some corner of his mind has convinced himself that a 'surge' will 'save' Iraq for him.

Second, 30k or 50k wouldn't be jack shit towards invading a country like Iran. Your going to need a draft to go there and a very good reason to sell it. Some type of 'terror attack' done by and orginization that could be spun to Iran would definately work.

Perhaps.. three years ago Iran was next if the Iraq invasion hadn't turned into what it is now but for now unless we are attacked on our home shores or if possibly Israel is attacked I believe Iran is off the table.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. While people can
have very different opinions on this topic, it is best if we are accurate in what we attribute to others. The OP does not say that the 30 to 50 thousand mentioned for a "surge" in Iraq are actually going to be a ground force for invading Iran. If we read the 3rd sentence in the 4th paragraph, it clearly states the forces would be needed to respond to an increase in violence in Iraq. The OP is saying that there is a good chance of US air strikes on Iranian targets, and that the bombings would result in the increased violence in Iraq. That is, of course, worth discussing and even debating.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. A couple thoughts
1. Bush can get the state of emergency he wants by creating a disaster. By overcommiting our troops, they can create a new private run, draftee staffed military.

2. Aviano. Why does this have to be a naval response, when everyone knows that God is in the airforce. \

3. 50K routed in a day would do wonders for Georgie. Nothing like a large body count to motivate congress. I am sure that for the right price, Halliburton will build them a stirring memorial/skeet range.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
29. packed and ready to go within a matter of just a few hours
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
34. Thus creating the mother of all charlie foxtrots.
Really.
I know Bushworld believes that we will successfully destabilize and occupy most of the oil producing world.

But the big patriotic draft needed for this will cause America to blow up, burn down, and fall over.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. Also predicted by
Edited on Tue Jan-02-07 01:50 PM by Xap
Tony Blankley of the Washington Times a few days ago on McLaughlin Group.

"Unless diplomacy works, and it doesn't look like it's going to, there's a high likelihood that President Bush will bomb Iran in 2007."

http://www.mclaughlin.com/predictions/predictions.asp
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. this is exactly why i am hot to impeach.
not sure that impending impeachment would stop bush from giving the order, but hoping that it might give pause to those who would carry out that order.
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bidiboom Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. What to do with Iran? We must coordinate independent strike with US, prepare for Iranian response
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3346275,00.html

What to do with Iran?

We must coordinate independent strike with US, prepare for Iranian response

Oded Tira
Published: 12.30.06, 15:49


And finally, Iran will continue to pursue its nuclear program while the world continues to "babble." If American and European actions continue in the current pace and quality, there will be no change in the Iranian nuclearization path. Instead of allotting several months for diplomatic activity and preparing for a military strike on Iran's nuclear infrastructure, the world continues to talk nonsense and play with illusions regarding the success of moderating diplomatic moves.


President Bush lacks the political power to attack Iran. As an American strike in Iran is essential for our existence, we must help him pave the way by lobbying the Democratic Party (which is conducting itself foolishly) and US newspaper editors. We need to do this in order to turn the Iranian issue to a bipartisan one and unrelated to the Iraq failure.


We must turn to Hillary Clinton and other potential presidential candidates in the Democratic Party so that they publicly support immediate action by Bush against Iran. We should also approach European countries so that they support American actions in Iran, so that Bush will not be isolated in the international arena again.


We must clandestinely cooperate with Saudi Arabia so that it also persuades the US to strike Iran. For our part, we must prepare an independent military strike by coordinating flights in Iraqi airspace with the US. We should also coordinate with Azerbaijan the use of airbases in its territory and also enlist the support of the Azeri minority in Iran. In addition, we must immediately start preparing for an Iranian response to an attack.




Dark forces never sleep.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Very revealing. Thank you for posting it. n/t
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. I have an opinion...
about this....we better wake the hell up and face reality...are we puppets, just waiting to have our strings pulled?....I am most definitely bookmarking this...I want to send it to everyone I know...
windbreeze





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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #43
73. Didn't Scott Ritter say Iran will turn off it's Oil if we bomb? And, surely they
have their own intelligence and are monitoring what's going on in the Gulf.

Either Bushies have something planned that Iranians can't see coming or there are allies of BushCo. in Iran planning to overthrow Ahmandinejad and put in place a compliant group that will keep the oil flowing while we do some "stealth" air attacks that achieve nothing but a "show of force."

That scenario would mean that a coup agains Ahmandinejad would be carried out while we do the fake "air strikes," or shortly thereafter. :shrug:
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. I don't think they can for long
Oil is 80% of their export. They might be able to do it short-term, knocking Japan and China for a hurting, but Iran can't afford to lose oil money.

We'll see.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #75
78. So...that said...how do they "accept" a US Invasion if they won't or can't
turn off their Oil Pipes? The "OIL" is what they have as their WEAPON against Bombing and Invasion..why would they not use that against the US? And as a weapon to get China to stop buying our Treasury Bonds? :shrug:

What's the benefit? :shrug:
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
41. Conspiracy theorist!
Just kidding. Actually, the OP is persuasive.

It's pretty obvious that BushCo wants to bomb Iran soon. Whether or not they will have the political capital to pull this feat off is another question. Another 9/11 type attack (perhaps against our troops in Iraq) would give BushCo the political cover to order Iran bombings. When US citizens are injured in spectacular terrorist attacks, Americans tend to give their President a lot of leeway in choosing which targets are selected for retaliation.
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MaggieSwanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
44. Kucinich - Iran: There Is Another War Being Planned

"Last week Intelligence Committee staff reports' deliberate distortion of the degree of Iran's uranium enrichment was exposed by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Nevertheless, according to credible reports, the administration has had covert operations in Iran, selected 1,500 bombing targets, and is preparing a naval blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, which will set the stage, not only for a war against Iran, but also for $5-a-gallon gasoline.

"Meanwhile, the State Department and the Department of Defense will not even appear in classified briefings to discuss the plans for a war against Iran.

"Wake up, America. There is another war being planned."


http://kucinich.us/node/388
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
48. In 2003, U.S. Spurned Iran's Offer of Dialogue
Edited on Tue Jan-02-07 09:40 PM by loindelrio
Linky

In 2003, U.S. Spurned Iran's Offer of Dialogue

By Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, June 18, 2006; Page A16

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/17/AR2006061700727.html

And the money shot:

The incident "strengthened the hands of those in Iran who believe the only way to compel the United States to talk or deal with Iran is not by sending peace offers but by being a nuisance," Parsi said.



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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
50. well written and persuasive
any guesses as to what their excuse will be? they won't be able to get away with some deadline game. terror attack blamed on iran?
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
52. No, he's not. The Generals will mutiny before they'll let that happen.
Redstone
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
53. excellent analysis....
Thank you for sharing that with us. I presume you've posted this to your DU journal-- it needs to be easily accessible as events develop during the coming year.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
58. I am afraid you are right. And I think that the desired increase in violence
Edited on Tue Jan-02-07 11:12 PM by Nothing Without Hope
is one of the reasons for two recent acts:

1. The horrid B-movie-like hanging of Saddam, for which the fallout will continue to escalate
2. The recent approval by the Israeli government of the FIRST NEW SETTLEMENT ON THE WEST BANK SINCE 1992:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x161101
Oh, the US State Dept "scolded" (NY Times' wording) Israel for this illegal outrage, but Israel knows it's going to get away with it. More, I believe it is a deliberate incentive to boost the incitement level and promote the war with Iran that the Israeli governmnet and the neocons have long wanted.

K & R

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #58
68. Re: Saddam's hanging
Who could believe that Saddam could have been made the slightest bit sympathetic?

Heckava job, Bushie.
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
59. It will take
great and sustained by people in the streets to stop this as the cards are being played. The only other possibility is military refusal/mutiny at high levels and much of this potential has been purged lowering the possibility. And even if it is not stopped....

Are YOU ready?

K&R

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #59
70. Dunno about street action
Worth doing as an ethical obligation to witness when your government does something appalling in your name, but if major demonstrations on every single continental land mass on earth (including Antarctica) didn't stop the Iraq war, why would similarly large demonstrations stop an attack against Iran?
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. Depends
If they are sustained and more demonstration than political parade they can work. This means getting in the way. Of course in combination with many other things.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #72
83. Recent examples, please? n/t
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
60. Obviously, for a dry drunk high on power..
.. and killing.. and being the Decider..

.. bottom is so low that the whole USA will have to be destroyed before he sees it.. if then.

That man is fukkin scary.

Sue
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
62. RUSSIA DELIVERING ANTI-AIRCRAFT MISSILES TO IRAN AND SYRIA ON SCHEDULE
3//The Daily Star, Lebanon—RUSSIA DELIVERING ANTI-AIRCRAFT MISSILES TO IRAN AND SYRIA ON SCHEDULE
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=78122

Controversial Russian contracts to sell anti-aircraft weapons to Syria and Iran are being fulfilled on schedule, Russian news agencies cited defense and industry officials as saying Tuesday. At least half of the 29 Tor-M1 missile systems bought by Iran for $1.4 billion dollars had been delivered, state-run ITAR-TASS quoted an unnamed source at the Defense Ministry as saying.
"We are actively carrying out deliveries of the system to Iran. At least 50 percent of the contract has been delivered," the official was quoted as saying. The air defense systems are being stationed around Iran's civilian nuclear sites, according to ITAR-TASS. … . Meanwhile, Interfax news agency quoted Valery Kashin, head of weapons maker Engineering Design Bureau, as saying that Russia met all its commitments in 2006 under the contract to supply Syria with the Strelets anti-aircraft system. He gave no details.


From the new World Media Watch up tomorrow at Buzzflash.com
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #62
66. Yep and Israel is beefing up too
It will be interesting to see if DC gets attacked especailly with the FBI leaving DC for Virginia
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G Hawes Donating Member (440 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
71. I both suspect and fear
that you are right.

Jesus.

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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
74.  Just how concerned should we be about this ?
I am concerned this may happen since I do believe there is a sort of dark force out there working behind the scenes .

Today I heard the dems say that they would support funding to the troops in Iraq as long as they are there , I wonder if this includes the escalation in a round about way .

I know bush is crazy but he is not the only one behind this , there are others who want to begin WW III .

Sure the dems take over tomarrow with grand plans for some issues .

What troubles me is there is no talk at all about this buildup to threaten Iran in the news which does not surprise me .

I fear bush will use this as his mandate of all mandates and that rummy is still working behind the scenes just as Kissinger has been out of sight but we find out he has been there all along .

I honestly don't know what to think about this entire issue . I know nothing about warships or fleets nore bombs and what they are capable of .

I do feel that since this issue continues to be brought up and there are people in the know keeping track that it is something to be concerned about and a reality even if many feel bush has lost his power to some degree .
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
76. this stuff again???
This seems to come up every 3 weeks now going back at least a year.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
77. World War III
If we bomb Iran, it will be the beginning of WW 3. Nothing less.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
79. This Week's "FACT" about bombing Iran?
Granted,I don't post much, and granted I'm not often well recieved because my posts are not of the "me too!" variety, but don't we see, about once a week or so, someone with the definitive article on the fact that Bush is going to start putting the wood to Iran...Any. Second. Now....

...wait for it.

No bombs yet. WTF?

I don't think the military will allow Bush to attack Iran. As an ex member of the army who worked at the 'gon for awhile, I can say that not everyone in the military juggranaut is an idiot. At some point their going to pull in the reigns and say "yanno what chief, I don't think so." Bombing Iran and bringing them into the war (and most likely across the border into Iraq) means no republican gets elected for the next decade. G-Dubs is an dumbass, but I don't think he'll sabatoge the republican party like that.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. I don't feel bush cares about 2008 at all
It is a personal mission for him to get the big win . He will be out of office and so far he has not cared about politics or even enough to learn how to speak well in public .
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Bethany Rockafella Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
81. "Oh my God, we have a mad man on our hands!"
"Red October" - 1990
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
84. Well, that might explain this:
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