Would You Support A Draft If It Meant The End Of The Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Poll question: Would You Support A Draft If It Meant The End Of The Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy

[MADem]

1. Don't forget the females...they'd be drafted too. NT

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. I Should Have Been Clearer..

I meant Universal Service and you would get a chance to go into the Armed Forces , the Peace Corps, or something along the lines of VISTA..

[MADem]

25. During the Vietnam years, they'd line up the kids at the AFEES and go

One, two, three, MARINE...One, two, three, MARINE!" They did that a lot after the surge escalation of troops!

If universal service became law, during times of peace people would be able to make their choice with no issues. During wartime, you'd be lucky if you didn't encounter the "One, two, three, MARINE" guy, filling out the ranks in like-it-or-not fashion!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. It's Hard To Ask These Questions While An Unjust War Is Going On...

Even in WW2 and the Civil War, two just wars, if there is such a thing, a draft was needed...

[MH1]

34. But, and this is just my opinion....

if you have truly universal service, EVERYONE has to do SOMETHING. Some people will prefer the military, even in a time of war, particularly if the incentives are there. Some people will do it for the adventure or the pride.

Assume you will provide hazardous duty pay where appropriate. There are non-military hazardous duty options, like smoke-jumping, but they are fairly limited.

So to some extent, you still have an "economic draft" if some of the ranks are filled by people doing it for economic reasons. But I think over all the need for a lottery would be reduced, and you'd have everyone being required to do something for the country. And that last is the real reason I want universal service - filling the military ranks in wartime is a separate part of the question.

[MADem]

41. Everyone has a right to an opinion, and there are different views on this matter

I was a volunteer myself, and I'd rather serve with people who were there of their own free will than those who were just 'doing time' like prisoners. And that would apply for smoke jumping or picking up trash on the highway, really. But that's just my take on it.

In times of war, sure, drafts are sometimes needed, but we are NOT at war right now. There has been no formal declaration. What's happening over in the Middle East is a hideous police action gone horribly awry. If we required our Congress to formally declare war prior to permitting a single servicemember to leave our shores to engage in combat, then maybe there would be fewer of these horseshit police actions/military engagements that we always seem to get wrapped up in. Congress needs to be held accountable and they need to stop shirking their duties in this regard.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

44. That is my point, for which I routinely get flammed

Declare war. Let's make it official. No more bullshit half-assed low-intensity crap.

Let's see who votes for it.

Then we have a target.

Right now it is like nailing jello to a door.

[MADem]

45. Well, you gotta expect that asbestos suit treatment whenever you dare to

say something that makes sense! It really is a 'put up or shut up' exercise, but way too many politicians prefer to waffle and fence-sit, and that's totally unhelpful. They're scared shitless of having to plant their flag on a position, and they sure as hell know that if they vote FOR war, it's blood on their hands, and voting against means they're 'wussies.'

It's way easier to just bullshit and go with the wind, I guess! And the voters of America let them get away with it.

[BR_Parkway]

2. Take away someone's free choice to serve so that other's are treated equally?

That's what your question boils down to. To rephrase - Would you support the government mandating a time in the military even if you didn't want to go IF they would stop treating gays and lesbians as second class citizens?

Obviously, one of the NO votes is mine.

[itsmesgd]

3. I want them to call for a draft to get the average fat, lazy american off their couch and into

the streets when they come to find out that Uncle Sam wants THEIR kid and not just somebody else. Numbers like 3000 will take on a whole new meaning when people have to fight to keep their own children out of that evil total.
I wish that they would call for a draft. The word DRAFT would do so much to get things finally moving in the right direction, that being west-out of Iraq and the whole of the middle east.
They never will say draft, but they might expand the national service call to include a "special skills draft" where they take people with the skills they need. I will probably fall into this designation after some previous work from my past, and I will go, but with great debate and only after I raise holy hell.

[mike_c]

4. conscription is involuntary servitude-- let's not take two steps backward...

...in order to take one forward. No way would I support a draft for any reason. If a conflict is important to the people, they will be willing to fight it. If it is only an instrument of neo-imperialist foreign policy, selling folks into involuntary servitude is not an honorable solution.

[Plaid Adder]

The whole thing infuriates me.

When Clinton first brought the issue up in 1993, there was no earthly reason for the military to oppose lifting the ban--at least not one that made any sense. But no, there had to be a huge outcry and foofaraw and much bullshit about "unit cohesion" and the formulation of a new policy that was just as crappy as the old one.

Now, the military is finally in deep enough shit to consider relinquishing a cherished prejudice. Mighty big of them. Lifting the ban under these circumstances would still be a good thing for GBLT Americans, but it's still kind of an insult. Throughout the 1990s, when military life was a hell of a lot better on average than it is now, they kept us out. Now that joining the army gives you an excellent chance of being sent to lose your soul, your mind, and your limbs in order to satisfy Bush's desire not to have failed again, they're willing to let us serve. Thanks, guys. Excuse me while I wipe away the tears of gratitude.

Better late than never, and better for the wrong reasons than not at all. But seriously, don't expect us to respond to this offer with demonstrations of joy. And to use it as the bait to get the Democrats to sign on to a draft...no. I don't think so. Anything that increases the chances of our military commitment in Iraq outlasting 2008 is a raw deal for ALL Americans.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[otherlander]

5. No

Who the fuck voted yes?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

6. I support the draft anyway

I feel that some sort of mandatory service would be a big step towards solving a lot of our problems.

Not necessarily military only.

I feel this would, if it were implemented across the board and fairly (as if!) spread the risk associated with war across the nation more evenly and lead to less "interventionalism"

IMHO

[itsmesgd]

7. I thought that we were a free people.

"Mandatory" is a nasty word. It is right up there with death and taxes.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

9. We are a free people, and we have

forgotten there are responsibilities which go with it.

Civics, 7th grade.

[hogwyld]

16. You are certainly "free" to join!

I am certainly "free" to refuse!!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

35. Thanks, 26 years in was enough for

me.

[uppityperson]

17. Mandatory voting too. I have gone back and forth on some sort mandatory

service that goes along with what your gvt provides for you. I don't trust them though to be able to handle it in a positive manner though, think this country is too big physically with too corrupt a culture worshipping the God of Money. If it were possible, I can see rights and responsibilities going both ways. You give not only tax dollars but time, you are responsible to vote each and every time, but don't see how it can be done right.

[mike_c]

26. what I learned in civics is that involuntary servitude is slavery...

...and that we fought a war with ourselves to end it.

[Lars39]

28. Enlistment age is now 42.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

36. 26 years I gave to the military

thanks for pointing that out.

[TahitiNut]

11. "right up their"? "their" what?

Who are they? :eyes: Seriesly?

[baldguy]

10. Cut the military by 75%

Have national service for all 18-20yr olds in AmeriCorps or the Peace Corps.

[hogwyld]

18. With you on the first point!

I agree that cutting the military budget and personnel by 75% would be a good start, but instead of conscripting young people into a form of servitude, why not take that money and give us a first rate education and health system?

[baldguy]

22. Education, health care - of course.

You can do a lot with $500 trillion dollars.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

37. Sounds good to me.

`

[Renew Deal]

8. No

Don't Ask Don't Tell is bad policy and bad for the military, but the draft is an extreme measure.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

12. I support a draft whenever there is a war

No exemptions for sex or sexual orientation, for college or marriage. No physical deferments for anal cysts or similarly benign matters.

And no calling it a "police action" or "liberation," or any other euphemisms.

And especially when the USA is the one who starts it.

[damntexdem]

15. The only good thing about a draft:

the country would be in a total uproar until will triumphed over the idiots who instituted it and got rid of it.

[BR_Parkway]

31. I'm sorry, but there's every reason to leave the GLBT exempt for

the duration of this war. We've tried to serve and got told we weren't wanted, weren't needed and would mess up unit morale - so screw that idea for now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3038234&mesg_id=3038234

[MADem]

42. Well, when the drafts were on, that exemption often didn't apply

http://www.amazon.com/My-country-right-serve-Experiences/dp/0060164468

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

40. I am with you. The only way to do these

things right is with everyone's kids, all out.

Anything else is a cluster-fuck.

[damntexdem]

13. Would you support arson if it meant the end of armed robbery?

End discrimination against gays in the military, and there will be less 'need' of a draft.

[Warpy]

14. Christ, can't you people understand why we fought so hard to END IT?

Think of this madman with a nearly unlimited supply of children to send to be killed in his stupid wars so his buddies can all get richer!

REALLY THINK ABOUT IT!

[MH1]

19. I support Universal Service, not a draft.

And Universal means Universal.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

39. wow, that's what I said, and I got

flambeed

[Crunchy Frog]

21. I would only support a draft if it could ensure

that the offspring of the wealthy and the powerful would not be able to get out of serving. A draft that would net Jenna and Babs, I could support. Nothing short of that though.

Seems to me that ending the "don't ask, don't tell" policy would be more like a stopgap measure to prevent a draft.

[sarge43]

23. What the service needs to do is

first, drop the UCMJ articles on sodomy and adultery. Second, include an article prohibiting sexual predation within the ranks and put teeth in it. It's predation that's the trouble, not shenanigans in the dumpsters or utility closets.

[ikojo]

24. I'd support a draft if there were FEW exemptions

I don't think going to college is a good enough reason to get out of a draft, as it was in the 1960s. I think all classes should sacrifice and not only the working class.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. My Poll Was Poorly Worded...

But it's too late now...


I don't have a problem with asking healthy citizens to give a year or two out of their young lives to spend a year or two in the military or the Peace Corp or a program along the lines of VISTA..


Their choice...


Most poor kids never interact with a rich kid or vice versa...

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

30. What's the draft have to do with ...

... a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

There are gay soldiers, always have been. "don't ask, don't tell" is not a policy that reflects honorable service. It's a cowardly, hide-your-head-in-the-sand approach.

But none of that has anything to do with a draft vs voluntary service. Separate issue.

[ecstatic]

32. I hate to say this, but I always planned to use that card in the event of being drafted

I know it's wrong and selfish, but what other options would I have?

[Neshanic]

33. What about "Don't look, don't get grossed out" anal cyst policy for republicans?

[lonestarnot]

38. no HELL NO box.

[ConsAreLiars]

43. Enslaving people to Multinational Corporate Imperialist wars really sucks,

no matter who is included or excluded. I might support a draft of only the families of billionaires, but even there I would exemptions for the few who could prove they were not psychopaths.

[krispos42]

46. Seperate issues. Should not be tied together.