"It was glorious!"

[LynnTheDem]

1991 Iraqi rebel uprising; and ya thought only Hussein was the "evil-doer"?

For their part, rebels and their sympathizers in both northern and southern cities killed hundreds, if not thousands, of members of the security forces and others allegedly working for the Baath Party or the government. While many were killed in battle, others were summarily executed after they had surrendered and were taken into custody, sometimes after summary people's "trials."

The Western press also recorded rebel (Kurd & Shi'ite) abuses. For example, The Washington Post interviewed a Republican Guard officer from the unit that recaptured Karbala in southern Iraq who reported that "dozens of senior officials, including the chief of police, top security agents, the deputy governor and high-ranking members of the Baath Party, were killed in an outpouring of vengeful fury. Captain Abed said many of the victims had their throats cut and bodies burned by the insurgents, while Shiite mobs ransacked their houses and stole food supplies."
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1992/WR92/MEW1-02.htm

"It was a revolution," says one Basrawi rebel (Shia) named Mohamad, who deserted his army unit after the intifada began and eventually made it to the United States. "It was glorious. There were demonstrations and shooting. There were bodies all over the place."
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2001/11/iraq.html

Oh those sweet & innocent Kurds...so fraternal.

Human Rights Reports; Kurdistan

...fighting among rival Kurdish political parties continued throughout the year, with clashes between the KDP and the PUK causing significant displacement of civilians. Both (Kurdish) parties have been implicated in a wide array of abuses, including arbitrary arrest of suspected political opponents; torture and ill-treatment of detainees; evictions of supporters of rival parties, and extrajudicial executions of dissident political activists.

Fighting among Kurdish parties and between Turkish and Kurdish forces aggravated an already serious problem of internally displaced people. The U.N. Center for Human Settlement estimated that "more than one third of the population. . . are internally displaced persons," of whom over 500,000 are in need of assistance. Many have been expelled from their homes in northern Iraq because of presumed support for rival Kurdish parties, while others fled north after Iraq expelled them from their homes in the Kirkuk and Khanaqin areas.
http://www.hrw.org/worldreport/Mideast-05.htm

Gee...maybe not so sweet & innocent....bush and the US "media" only said Hussein did that shit.

In Iraqi Kurdistan armed Kurdish political parties and Iraqi security forces were also responsible for a wide variety of human rights violations, including the arbitrary detention of suspected political opponents, torture, and extrajudicial executions.
http://www.hrw.org/worldreport99/mideast/iraq.html

The two Kurdish political parties controlling Iraqi Kurdistan detained prisoners of conscience, and armed political groups were reportedly responsible for abductions and killings.
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.nsf/mde/iraq?Open

Iraq's New President Jalal Talabani: Ally of CIA, Iranian Intelligence and Saddam Hussein
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/07/1343226

Oy. Sounds just like...well...you-know-who.

Very fraternal in their Fratricide War.

For decades main Kurdish military-political groups, under the misleading title of parties, waged a self-destructing war against each other.

It is not an exaggeration to state that this long fratricide cost the Kurds more lives than the murderous actions of Saddam, Turkey and Iran combined.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~kurdistan3/2-6-04-opinion-zorab-sense-of-frustration.html

Now wait a dang moment! That sure as shit ain't what bush spewed!

But Kurd leader Barzani and Kurd leader Talabani both agreed on one thing...Saddam was a good ally when they needed help killing off the other's bunch...Guess they didn't always hate that "worse than Hitler" every day. Just on certain days.

In 1991, I remember being with Mr Talabani and his peshmerga fighters in his refuge at a ruined school in a ruined village in northern Iraq. It was just after the Kurds had risen against Saddam Hussein in the wake of his Kuwait adventure.

The Baghdad forces struck back. Almost the entire Kurdish population fled into the mountains and the peshmerga stayed behind to hold off the Iraqi army.

One night, Mr Talabani vanished and nobody would tell me where he'd gone. Then he suddenly appeared on Iraqi TV, kissing Saddam Hussein on the cheeks.

Far from feeling betrayed, his fighters danced and sang.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4506507.stm

Well gee, everyone needs to give some affection now & then.

Contentious Kurdish relations
Civil war broke out between the two (Kurdish) sides in 1994. By 1996, Barzani was receiving help from Baghdad in battling the PUK, prompting Talabani to brand Barzani a traitor for enlisting Saddam's help. The Kurds eventually reached a peace agreement in 1998, and convened the first joint session of the Kurdish parliament in six years in October 2002.
http://www.ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2005/4/independentstate130.htm

Huh...bush sure never mentioned THAT fact...BOTH Kurd leaders had asked Hussein for help in killing the other Kurd warleader's gang?! Gee...definitely not sweet & innocent. Fancy bush never mentioning that fact. Why, it coulda made Americans even more opposed to his invasion.

And anyone's actually shocked at the current ugly behavior??!

Saddam hanging taunts evoke ugly past
Altogether, the execution as we now see it is shown to be an ugly, degrading business, which is more reminiscent of a public hanging in the 18th Century than a considered act of 21st Century official justice.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6221751.stm?lsf

Apparently so...

Shocked by Saddam, Italy seeks UN death penalty ban
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L022516.htm

A silver lining indeed.

But the Shia love us...really they do!

And most Iraqis now approve of attacks on U.S. forces...74% of Shiites and 91% of Sunnis in Iraq want us to leave within a year. The number of Shiites making this call in Baghdad, where the U.S. may send more troops to bring order, is even higher (80%).

Support for attacks on U.S. forces now commands majority support among both Shiites and Sunnis.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003410658

Ummm...hmmmm...maybe they don't love us.

But heck, even with all the dead -theirs & ours- it's for the best. Right?

90% Iraqis Say They Were Better Off Under Hussein
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/14282

oops.

[rockymountaindem]

1. I had an Iraqi floormate three years ago when I was a college freshman

He was an Assyrian Catholic, whose family had fled the Hussein regime. I made a remark about how well the Kurds had done under the protection of the no-fly zone, and he told me the following:

"The Kurds are nothing but raiders and bandits. Everything they have, they got by stealing. They stole my grandfather's family farm in the 1920s when he was a child. The Kurds drove my family off our ancestral lands, and we never got them back. The US media tells everyone the Kurds are peaceful people because they are opposed to Saddam, but they are lying to you."

Now, this guy is obviously biased, but he really drove home to me that there are two sides to every story and that the ethnic situation over there is really, really complicated. Until then I'd never heard a bad word about the Kurds. This Assyrian told me that next to his little village where he was born was a village of Jews. The Assyrians were persecuted all over the place by Saddam, but the Jews were not. My friend told me, "When you're more persecuted than the Jews, you know you're in really bad shape". Being a Jew myself, I could sympathize with that. He also said two more things that really stuck with me back in the day. In 2003, he said, "I love George Bush because he helps Iraq and fucks up America". After the 2004 election, he told me "In the end I was rooting for Kerry, because I am tired of seeing my people die. I'm sorry he lost".

[LynnTheDem]

4. My DH worked with the Kurds 2 yrs ago; said they were the

friendliest people around. And would smile as they killed you.

They've been killing each other off for 30 years.

They've been mass-graving each other for decades.

Their HRW and AI reports read just as bad as Iraq under Hussein.

They were not "Saddam's own people" when they sided with Iran and killed Sunni & Shia alike.

They currently are doing ethnic cleansing in the Kirkuk areas of Iraq. But you'll rarely hear about that fact in the US "media".

Then there's the sweet sheep Shia; the ones currently in charge. The ones promising to bring back stoning for adultery...but "only using small stones". The ones ordering women to cover up head to toe and murdering those who refuse. The ones with the huge militias. Such as al Sadr's Badr Brigade.

Gee, maybe there was a reason Hussein was so ruthless. And he still managed to provide a higher standard of life than bush's America is providing them.

Oh crap I forgot; we're supposed to only blame the minority non-fundie Sunnis for all the death & destruction so forget that bit about the majority of Shi'ites who support attacks on our troops.

[Buck Rabbit]

8. Okay we now have heard from the Assyrian Catholics. But I

believe the Iraqi Turkmen have a few issues with the Kurd's as well.

The Kurd's have battled the the Sumerians, Assyrians, Persians, Mongols, European crusaders, Arabs, Persians, the Turks, the Turkmen, and each other. I guess it should be a point of pride that they like Americans and Israelis because their "who they like" list is really pretty exclusive.

[madrchsod]

2. nice bit of research detailing the complexity of iraq.

is it any wonder why daddy did not want to topple saddam.

here is a very interesting idea about the rise and fall of saddam...http://www.asterism.blogspot.com/

[stellanoir]

3. Lynn

I love your spunk and intrepid nature. Keep speakin' the absolute truth.

K & R'd

Love ya.

[LynnTheDem]

5. Stellanoir

If more Americans could simply sit down, open their minds, and look at ALL sides, we & the entire world would be one f*ck of a better, happier, safer place.

But I bet that's been the way of it since humans first crawled out of the swamp. :shrug:

Thanks, and love ya back! :hug:

[Straight Shooter]

6. Thanks, Lynn. That's quite a compilation of the truth you've got there.

This is the abattoir into which bush has led America's finest. :(

[eridani]

7. Hope this is in the research section

--so it doesn't get lost. Thanks.

[Karenina]

9. Another kick to that end.

:kick: LtD ROCKS!!!