DU family, help me out with "humanistic agenda"

[Ishoutandscream2]

A good friend at work who is a fundy and Republican has been debating with me on certain issues via email. Many topics have come up, and of course gay marriage reared its head. In his last email, he talked about the "trashy, humanistic agenda" on television. He had to get to basketball practice, and I asked on my last email to define "humanistic agenda." He will answer me tomorrow.

Please don't ask me to google. I want a sane, rational response from my friends here concerning exactly what the "humanistic agenda" is. I don't need a fundy, radical answer from the religious right.

[lapfog_1]

1. An agenda that is based on helping other humans?

as opposed to being one that only promotes "god" (their version of what they think God would want).

[ulysses]

2. that which is good for humans?

Simplistic, but that's sort of how I've always taken it. That's not what your fundie friend means, of course...

[Ishoutandscream2]

15. Yes, exactly. Kind of "human over God"

That's why I wanted DUs take.

[ulysses]

19. our political language is pretty threadbare.

"Humanist" to him has all the usual scare associations that others have noted downthread. If he's like fundie friends I've had at work, he won't be much interested in hearing what it really means, or in hearing that American TV is by and large tawdry and cheap because we buy tawdry and cheap by the long ton, but there you go.

As an aside, I don't see a necessary opposition between humanism and religion - but then our religion, or at least the massed face of it, is pretty threadbare too.

[SteppingRazor]

3. Here's the 15 points of the 1933 Humanist Manifesto

FIRST: Religious humanists regard the universe as self-existing and not created.

SECOND: Humanism believes that man is a part of nature and that he has emerged as a result of a continuous process.

THIRD: Holding an organic view of life, humanists find that the traditional dualism of mind and body must be rejected.

FOURTH: Humanism recognizes that man's religious culture and civilization, as clearly depicted by anthropology and history, are the product of a gradual development due to his interaction with his natural environment and with his social heritage. The individual born into a particular culture is largely molded by that culture.

FIFTH: Humanism asserts that the nature of the universe depicted by modern science makes unacceptable any supernatural or cosmic guarantees of human values. Obviously humanism does not deny the possibility of realities as yet undiscovered, but it does insist that the way to determine the existence and value of any and all realities is by means of intelligent inquiry and by the assessment of their relations to human needs. Religion must formulate its hopes and plans in the light of the scientific spirit and method.

SIXTH: We are convinced that the time has passed for theism, deism, modernism, and the several varieties of "new thought".

SEVENTH: Religion consists of those actions, purposes, and experiences which are humanly significant. Nothing human is alien to the religious. It includes labor, art, science, philosophy, love, friendship, recreation — all that is in its degree expressive of intelligently satisfying human living. The distinction between the sacred and the secular can no longer be maintained.

EIGHTH: Religious Humanism considers the complete realization of human personality to be the end of man's life and seeks its development and fulfillment in the here and now. This is the explanation of the humanist's social passion.

NINTH: In the place of the old attitudes involved in worship and prayer the humanist finds his religious emotions expressed in a heightened sense of personal life and in a cooperative effort to promote social well-being.

TENTH: It follows that there will be no uniquely religious emotions and attitudes of the kind hitherto associated with belief in the supernatural.

ELEVENTH: Man will learn to face the crises of life in terms of his knowledge of their naturalness and probability. Reasonable and manly attitudes will be fostered by education and supported by custom. We assume that humanism will take the path of social and mental hygiene and discourage sentimental and unreal hopes and wishful thinking.

TWELFTH: Believing that religion must work increasingly for joy in living, religious humanists aim to foster the creative in man and to encourage achievements that add to the satisfactions of life.

THIRTEENTH: Religious humanism maintains that all associations and institutions exist for the fulfillment of human life. The intelligent evaluation, transformation, control, and direction of such associations and institutions with a view to the enhancement of human life is the purpose and program of humanism. Certainly religious institutions, their ritualistic forms, ecclesiastical methods, and communal activities must be reconstituted as rapidly as experience allows, in order to function effectively in the modern world.

FOURTEENTH: The humanists are firmly convinced that existing acquisitive and profit-motivated society has shown itself to be inadequate and that a radical change in methods, controls, and motives must be instituted. A socialized and cooperative economic order must be established to the end that the equitable distribution of the means of life be possible. The goal of humanism is a free and universal society in which people voluntarily and intelligently cooperate for the common good. Humanists demand a shared life in a shared world.

FIFTEENTH AND LAST: We assert that humanism will: (a) affirm life rather than deny it; (b) seek to elicit the possibilities of life, not flee from them; and (c) endeavor to establish the conditions of a satisfactory life for all, not merely for the few. By this positive morale and intention humanism will be guided, and from this perspective and alignment the techniques and efforts of humanism will flow.


Source: http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/manifesto1.html

Probably as close as you'll find to a "humanist agenda." For updates to the original, see 1973's Second Humanist Manifesto (http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/manifesto2.php) and 2003's Humanism and its Aspirations (http://www.americanhumanist.org/3/HumandItsAspirations.php)

[Ishoutandscream2]

18. Wow, that manifesto sure is evil

I mean, affirming life rather than denying it. Frightening stuff.:sarcasm:

[BOSSHOG]

4. Interesting ltte today

in the Gulfport Sun-Herald which touches on your subject. The writer was complaining about how sex and violence are used on TV to sell products. And then he asks "where are the family values?" I think it is totally absurd. I am exposed just like everyone else but I behave as a law abiding tax paying productive citizen. I've read and consumed pornography but I've yet to commit a sex crime and never will. Gays should be allowed to marry. Ask your friend if gays should be allowed to pay taxes. Ask him what is the governing document of our country, the constitution or the bible? Ask him if he wants to use the constitution as a weapon, which is exactly what banning gay marriages would be? The constitution is a shield. And if a human being is negatively effected by trash on TV, I cannot possibly see how one places the blame on the advertiser. "Conservatives" do bad things and blame their behavior on TV?? I ain't buying that crap and I don't want focus on the family to set my agenda.

[Ishoutandscream2]

16. Boss, I told him

that not everyone worships and believes in the Bible; that laws should be based on what's Constitutional, not what a religious book may say.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. I don't think your coworker is familiar with The Humanist Manifestos

I and II (do a google search). It probably means secular, deal-with-it-here/not-after-you're-dead, and relative morality stuff in general. Humanism is far more complex than that. It's said you get three opinions if you ask two humanists what humanism is.

[dmallind]

11. Minor quibble

As of 2003 they're up to version III now.

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. Hard to say before he defines his terms.

There are, I'd wager, a myriad of 'humanistic agendas'... not just one.

Sounds like the issue might be one of bible-based ethics vs. non-bible based ethics.

Having read the book, put me in the non-bible-based ethics camp.

[Ishoutandscream2]

17. Yes, I think that's exactly what he may mean

But is there an agenda? Well, I guess it's like they think there's a gay agenda, too.

[atommom]

7. RWers hate humanism because it tells us that human sexual behavior

is natural, and not a sin. I've heard righties say that humanism is responsible for all the sexuality on TV and in the movies. They also see gay characters on TV as part of an insidious plot to make the public accept homosexuality as normal. By their reasoning, the proper course of action would be to make all our entertainment based on a conservative Christian worldview, with no tolerance of sexual deviancy like homosexuality or premarital sex, and with clear consequences for any characters that commit those sins. Humanism, which just tells us to be kind to our fellow humans without calling upon a spiritual authority, is just too mushy for people with a RW mindset.

[Az]

8. I am a humanist

Basically a humanist based their moral and ethical descisions on the betterment of humanity. Rather than looking to a god for authority or doctrine the humanist looks to their own faculties and their fellow humans to determine the best course for any given circumstance.

Of course this is not what they mean when they speak of the Humanist Agenda. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson made quite a bit of money demonizing humanists in the latter part of the 20th century. School Prayer, Gays, and Humanists were their favorite boogey men to scare believers into the pews.

It was their belief that it was the humanist agenda to drive school prayer out and the evils of evolution in. The humanists were responsible for all manner of covert activity going on behind the scenes. Apparently we have extrodinary power behind the scenes.

It was this attitude that sparked some in the atheist community (humanists are usually atheists though there are theistic humanists out there) to create an organization called the Evil Atheist Conspiracy. They take credit for every conspiracy that ever existed. Illuminati? Just a front for the EAC. Freemasons? They are our footsoldiers who do not even know whom they serve.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Jerry Falwell rhetoric.

They're upset with things like equal rights, and science education.

I'm quite serious.

[dmallind]

10. Well the Humanist manifesto exists

In that it is the stated position of groups belonging to AHA. Being a fuindy type it may be that he is wanting to trash something by associating it with those of no (or very little) religious faith.

The official text of teh current version can be found here...

http://www.americanhumanist.org/3/HumandItsAspirations.php

Nothing all that deeply worrisome to most non-fundies I would suspect. Paragraph leaders are below..

Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis

Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change

Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience.

Life’s fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals

Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships

Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness


I suppose you COULD stretch the second one to say it's an anti-god stance and the last to devalue the individualistic profit motive, but both could be argued otherwise and in any event are hardly very strong statements that would be "trashy values".

But then being an atheist I'm obviously biased. perhaps religious Duers can point to what may be upsetting about this.

[Divernan]

12. Don't be intellectually lazy - you can't rebut your friend in 10 words or less.

Really, google is your friend! Your good friend at work probably has no idea of what "humanism" means other than that his minister is horrified by it and uses it to label any thoughts/actions not endorsed by his fundy religion. Humanism is a philosophy which has been around for centuries. It won't kill you to spend 20 minutes reading about it, and you will be very well prepared to explain to your friend that "trashy" and "humanistic" are not synonymous adjectives.
DEFINITION I.
Humanism is the naturalistic philosophy or way of life centered on human concerns and values that asserts the dignity and worth of humans and their capacity for self-actualization through the use of reason and scientific inquiry.
DEFINITION II.
Humanism is a philosophy, world view, or life stance based on naturalism--the conviction that the universe or nature is all that exists or is real. Humanism serves, for many humanists, some of the psychological and social functions of a religion, but without belief in deities, transcendental entities, miracles, life after death, and the supernatural. Humanists seek to understand the universe by using science and its methods of critical inquiry--logical reasoning, empirical evidence, and skeptical evaluation of conjectures and conclusions--to obtain reliable knowledge. Humanists affirm that humans have the freedom and obligation to give meaning, value, and purpose to their lives by their own independent thought, free inquiry, and responsible, creative activity. Humanists stand for the building of a more humane, just, compassionate, and democratic society using a realistic ethics based on human reason, experience, and reliable knowledge--an ethics that judges the consequences of human actions by the well-being of all life on Earth.

WHY DO FUNDIES HISS AND CRINGE AT THE WORD, "HUMANISM"?

Humanism is therefore concerned largely with two issues: first, a rejection of all forms of theism, supernaturalism, and their associated miracles, superstitions, dogmas, authoritarian beliefs, and wishful and hopeful thinking, and second, the resulting necessity of creating or finding values, meanings, and ethical beliefs in a completely naturalistic universe by the sole use of human reason and individual inquiry.


Humanists base their lives and beliefs on three intellectual areas: naturalistic ethics, rational skepticism, and science. Humanists believe in naturalistic ethics, that humans are the ultimate source of morals, values, purposes, and meanings. Moral values find their source in human experience; ethics stem from human need and interest; the purpose and meaning of life are what we make it to be. Human ethics and values are an outgrowth of the cooperation necessary for the survival of a social species such as Homo sapiens. Thus, ethics and values can and should be chosen by the application of human reason; they are not handed down to us by a deity from atop a mountain. The dogmatic claim that only supernatural forces can civilize humanity and that human thought cannot be the source of morality is a superstition. To the contrary, we are responsible for our ethics as much as for our actions. It is improper to equate values and morals with religion. Estimable values and a personal code of ethics can exist independently of any religious doctrine or creed, and have done so for centuries. Many great historical figures lived moral, happy, and productive lives without religion, and their example is being emulated by innumerable men and women today. Humanists recognize this, and state only that since we must choose our values and morals, we base our choices on human reason and experience, not on supernatural authoritarian doctrines. Infinite punishments and rewards for finite acts do not need to be invoked to secure proper moral behavior; ethics can be justified by their ability to promote a happy conscience, a productive and successful life, and the harmonious working of society. Discussion of reasoned moral and value choice occupy the major part of the humanist literature, hardly the activity of a group that is trying to "brainwash youth into accepting non-moral values."

The second realm of humanist thought is rational skepticism, which is withholding belief where there is no evidence or where there is contrary evidence. Humanists do not believe whatever feels good, but only what we are allowed to believe by the available evidence. This realist viewpoint may not be as congenial as wishful thinking, but it is certainly more productive of reliable knowledge. To idealize the universe is a confession of an inability to master the proper ways to understand things that specifically concern us. Opposite to rational skepticism is faith, which is firm belief in something for which there is no evidence or, even worse, where there is contrary evidence. When there is evidence, no one speaks of faith. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence. It is popularly thought virtuous to have faith, that is to say, have a conviction which cannot be shaken by contrary evidence. However, this is not a virtue--it is a vice. Faith weakens

[sinkingfeeling]

13. To me, a secular humanist, the ''agenda" is to find solutions through education,

research, and nature to the problems facing mankind's (and animals')existence on this planet at this point in history. It is living a life to its fullest without promise of some future reward. It is to provide for an evermore equal society, where all humans are able to pursue their personal talents. It is to question existing dogma and to put our hopes and dreams on the amazing human mind and spirit and not into some 'supernatural' being.

[Ishoutandscream2]

20. Excellent answer.

[Az]

14. In a nut shell the Humanistic Agenda

is to figure things out without relying on entities other than humans.