I've found the Meaning of Life

[canetoad]

CONSERVATISM- is good until you need someone to go out on a limb for you.
LIBERALISM- is good until you need to stand out from the crowd.
RELIGION- is good until others don't treat you the way you treated them.
ANARCHY- is good until someone parks over your driveway.

To have moral and ethical consistency that matches your actions. People, this is the meaning of life.

[Jackpine Radical]

1. Your avatar helps me understand

where this stuff came from.

[canetoad]

2. Honest question or snipe

I'll go for honest.

It comes from asking the question at least every day since I was an adult.

[nini]

4. LOL

:rofl:

[RC]

3. I don't get your definition of LIBERALISM

The rest make sense to me.

[canetoad]

6. In a word, lockstep

You saw the threads a week back, the Prog Cred things.

Someone needs to wake these people up and say 'hello, we are on the same side'. A humanitarian and respecful society, and people need not fall into lockstep over issues to have their so called 'credentials' questioned. Not everyone focusses on the same issues, as long as the work is done, in small ways we can be a more liberal world. It's one thing to say all people are equal. You would find no-one more vehement on that than me, but to insist all people are the same.......not progressive or liberal thinking at all.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. I wouldn't say that all people are equal, for that matter.

However, they have equal rights & should be treated equally, in the sense of fairly. There are a lot of outstanding people who are liberal, and there is nothing in liberalism that would try to reduce them to some sort of lowest common denominator. So your definition of liberal made no particular sense to me. It seemed like one of those "brilliant" ideas one gets when stoned, which (if you write it down when high) makes you wonder what the hell was wrong with your brain when you read it later.

[canetoad]

11. Ok.

You are welcome to dismiss the post because of my avatar.

Do libs support the drug war or not?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jackpine Radical]

18. Hell, I think pot should be legalized

and other drugs at least decriminalized. I just thought your definition of liberal left something to be desired. I have a sometimes peculiar sense of humor that played a role in my initial comment. I think your flame is a little over-the-top.

[canetoad]

20. Blame it on the typed communication

I can't see if there is a smile or sneer on your face.

If it's a smile, or hopefully an insane cackle - then right back at ya.

[Cleita]

5. Cute and intelligent, but rather black and white,

which points to conservatism. Conservatives like clean and crisp but usually end up with messes. Liberals know that life is messy and do their best to organize it toward being clean and crisp.

[canetoad]

7. Do they?

I'm not an American. These boards are my chance to see you in your natural habitat.

To make a generality, as a nation you are the most black-white I have experienced. There are no shades of grey, no 'I'll stop and think about it cfor a while'. Cleita, I don't speak of you personally, I've read many of your posts, know you are a fiery person who calls it as you see it.

I'm giving my overall opinion of what you consider the 'left of the left' in USA from reading these boards. To me, as a nation you need to have things more clear cut that most people.

[Cleita]

10. You have been lead to believe that we are black and white

by our media. Yes, the corporations who run us want us to take sides. We are very brainwashed in many ways. But I think we are becoming immune to that brainwashing, like people become immune from germs after a few generations.

[canetoad]

13. Good point

Most of the world sees America as an episode in 'Bold and Beautiful' or at best 'Law and Order'.

Mind-Fucking, call it what you will, marketing, NLP, entertainment, is of immense interest to me. Did your nation become the stereotype broadcast out to the world as a steady gaggle of soapies, family sit-coms and good-over-evil cop shows?

In the just-past campaign the mind-fuck became a political tool. They lost, but it shows the world how low the USA can go to capture not the intelligent vote, but the gut feeling-brainwashed-by-sound/vision bite vote.

I am so glad that people are waking up, but don't believe the process will be quick or complete.

[canetoad]

8. I should have dealt with this all in one post

But why does it point to conservatism?

I want Iraq resolved. Likewise Israel & Palestine. Unlike many posters here I put my 50 something body and reputation on the line in demonstrations. I feel you have been too quick to brandish a word without thinking of the implications.

[uppityperson]

36. Things are good or bad, if things are working don't change them

that is being conservative. Perhaps you mean fundamentalist?

[canetoad]

40. I'm not sure what you mean

but suspect you have drifted far away from the original assertation.

The meaning of life is to reach the stage where you are of accord in your thoughts and actions. Your day to day life reflects your philosophies. Can't recall mentionining fundies, but they are a bloody good example of moral discord.

[uppityperson]

66. Describing what is commonly called "conservative" but is actually fundamentalism

Conservatives conserve. If something works, they keep doing it rather than experimenting but are not totally rigid, are capable of changing. Fundamentalists see the world in black and white, rigid "my way or no way, for me and you should too" sort of thinking. Too many have confused the terms conservative and fundamentalist, using "conservative" when it should be fundamentalist. Media does it all the time, saying "conservative" when the proper term is "fundamentalist", as do fundamentalist politicians.

As far as drifting from the original assertation, I am replying to your question "But why does it point to conservatism?".

I understand your goal of having consistency between your thoughts and actions being The meaning of life, but I think that is only 1 part of it since your thoughts and actions can be to harm everything, or to not participate in living. Edited to add, thanks for the interesting topic.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

12. What does this mean?

"LIBERALISM- is good until you need to stand out from the crowd."

What do you mean by "stand out from the crowd"?

[canetoad]

15. All I can say

is refer to that proud complement of vocal, individualistic, trustworthy left wingers who lie in DU's graveyard because they did not fall into lockstep with 90 odd thousand others.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

16. "Standing out from the crowd" is getting Tombstoned?

Don't bogart, dude.

[canetoad]

17. I'm not. I'm being honest

Sure a lot of trolls are kicked in the arse, but a lot of good people too. Only because they held an opionion that was not mainstream. Or they may have expressed it in a way that 'outraged' someone. BTW, outrage is pretty cheap these days.

Personally I don't see what is wrong with letting people have their say. It's not as if you have to Act on it, do you......

[A-Schwarzenegger]

19. What "good people" are you talking about?

Give me an idea of who you admire who have been TS'ed.

[canetoad]

21. I don't like the way this is going A.Schw

You are asking me to name names, then debate the merits of each person, perhaps individual posts they made.

I find that a bit undergrad and will not be sucked in. All I will say is the ones I'm thinking about had been here for a long time, had well established 'prog cred' whateverthefuck that means, but were outspoken in times of fiery opinion clashes.

You have been around for a while, you know exactly who I am talking about. Unless of course, they are now non-people, in which case welcome to newspeak.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

23. "you know exactly who I am talking about"

I have no fricking idea who youre talking about.
When I think of the tombstoned I think of wackos,
goofballs, nitwits, trolls & ne'er-do-wells. If you
dont want to enlighten me & name your worthy faves,
then don't. Adios.

[canetoad]

24. OK. One name to start with

Distressed American.

Don't have a hissy fit and refuse to talk. Are we on the same page? Are you interested in making sure we are on the same side?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

25. I know DA was hard working.

But I dont know why she was TSed. Do you?
Do you know she was TSed for being an "individual",
for "standing out from the crowd"?

[canetoad]

27. Yes I do

It was during the israel/lebanon thing.

A-Schw I dont expect for a moment to convert you to my way of thinking, but I've found the professed left side of politics just as willing to eat their own as the right. Politics is a game of winning. Chop out the dead wood, we didn't need them anyway.

Maybe my criticsm should be reserved for political structures in general. Ultimately, the needs of those in office come before those who elected them.

That's what I was saying about hypocrasy.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

31. I dont know that we disagree that much.

It just seemed that several issues were getting mixed up
& I wanted to see clearly what you were saying. Thanks.

[uppityperson]

38. You do know that people got TS'd then over things like

strongly cussing others out, calling them (insert bad words here that mean closed minded killers)? That is a reason quite a few got TS'd, not because the "stood out from the crowd" except perhaps in knowledge of swear words and insults.

[canetoad]

42. I refuse to use the sarcasm 'smilie'

because if people do not recognise sarcarsm the threat, by definition is probably over their head.

You, a beacon of free-thinking, have chosen to home in on a couple of words, a reference to past posters. My call would be no ball. Yours may differ.

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. Sarcasm is more recognisable when people know you well

On the internet, you can't get tone of voice, or emphasis. If you don't make it clear which of your posts or points in this thread are sarcastic, you'll be misunderstood. People don't know you well here - you have 500 or so posts spread out over two and a half years.

[uppityperson]

68. Using the sarcasm smiley can be helpful if you are know welll known.

Yes, sad to say, there are people who post borderline things here, then say they were joking, or possible being sarcastic and we didn't get it, or take offense at someone taking a negative post seriously because "it was only meant as sarcasm and you just didn't get it." Also, some like to say others don't understand their sarcasm "probably over their head", thus proving they are smarter. Writing on a forum can be an interesting thing, trying to have clear communication since body language, facial mannerisms are missing. Using the sarcasm smiley may be redundant or seem unnecessary, but can be a good thing.

Also, posting "You, a beacon of free-thinking, have chosen to home in on a couple of words, a reference to past posters. My call would be no ball. Yours may differ." The first part is sort of a sarcastic almost quite insult, and an ignoring of other places I posted here on the OP. It is ignoring, or perhaps not noticing, that this is a subtopic, a discussion that has branched off the OP and is therefor a discussion of its own. (a discussion about being too libral, standing out on ones one gets one ts'd.

The second part, "no ball, yours may differ" I take as a colliquialism that I am unfamiliar with. Some people find it fun to post this sort of thing to prove their supriority over other posters. See now why the sarcasm smiley can come in handy?

[muriel_volestrangler]

61. Don't confuse how one private board is run with a political leaning

whether that leaning is US-wide, or worldwide. Boards of all political views, left, right or all-encompassing, set their own rules, and use them to police themselves. Unless you were a moderator at the time the people were tombstoned, it's very unlikely you know the reasons for it - there could have been personal insults, repeated breaking of board rules, and so on, that now just show up as "message deleted". It's not a 'liberal' thing - Free Republic, and some other right wing boards, delete members for far less than DU does.

I'd take issue with your definition of 'liberalism', too. Surprisingly for someone from Australia, you seem to use the American right's definition - ie 'liberalism = socialism'. I'd have thought your own Liberal Party would have shown you that it doesn't.

[canetoad]

22. Before this sinks

A few have questioned my termerity. A couple, my definition of liberalism. One or two the fact that I may be somehow brain dead because I use a cannabis leaf for my avatar.

Anyone disagree that the meaning of life is to be consistent in thought, word and deed?

[uppityperson]

35. Me. I disagree with most of this.That is nowhere near my meaning of life.

FUNDAMENTALISM- is good until you need someone to go out on a limb for you.
LIBERALISM- promotes tolerance and letting others be whom the are, even if different, so long as it is not hurtful
FUNDAMENTALIST RELIGION- is good until others don't treat you the way you treated them.
RELIGION- can give you a set of guidelines to live your life by and ways to question and ponder and grow
ANARCHY- is good until someone parks over your driveway.

To have moral and ethical consistency that matches your actions. People, this is NOT the meaning of life. The meaning of life is to learn, to grow, to participate in the world in a positive manner. Consistency implies obstinance, the inability to learn and grow and that is NOT in the meaning of life.

[canetoad]

43. If I may say

thats a very Dr Phil attitude.

Can you please tell me the downfalls of being consistent in your thoughts and actions.

[uppityperson]

64. golly, thanks for the description, I think.

You seem to assume that thoughts and actions are good ones. Mr.bush is consistent in his thoughts and actions, yet harming others is not what I consider the meaning of life.

[sammythecat]

26. I'll be on your side

I'm not sure how I feel about the liberalism thing, but it really doesn't matter. None of these concepts are fail proof or without fault. Liberalism included. They all have at least some faults, and if people disagree about a particular fault, so what! Throw it out and put a different one in. It really doesn't matter. It doesn't change the spirit of your message.

To me, that spirit is summed up in the penultimate sentence. "To have moral and ethical consistency that matches your actions". Who can argue the importance of that quality? It would be a pretty cool world if we all had that. It would be a pretty cool world if we all just really made a hard effort to STRIVE for that.

BTW, I hope to hell that nobody asks "Who's morals?", or "Who's ethics?". We could get ridiculous here.

[canetoad]

28. I could kiss you

ah shit, i will ......((((SMACK))))))

It's so fucking simple, how could we have missed it.

[uppityperson]

39. Whose morals or ethics? What about change? What about learning &changing?

Mr.bush's morals or ethics?

[sammythecat]

47. Oh God, I knew it.

I think it's just a general statement. Just regular ol' good morals and ethics. Good stuff. You know, think good stuff and do good stuff.

Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's'". Well, what IS supposed to go to Caesar? What if I don't like Caesar? See what I mean? We can go on an on. But really, we know what he was trying to get across. I'm not religious, btw, I just used that as an example. We could probably split into a million pieces almost any quote.

[uppityperson]

65. ah, but you are assuming "good"

I don't see "good" in the OP and, as I asked whose morals or ethics? Mr.bush's morals or ethics or someone being a decent humane human?

Consistency could imply not being able to learn and change. Again the example of Mrbush. He is consistent in "stay the course" but I do not consider that being decent or "the meaning of life". I consider being able to take in new information, to learn, to change as the meaning of life vs being consistent.

[sammythecat]

67. "To have moral and ethical consistency that matches your actions."

I think you've made a good point. And, as I said in my first reply, a point I hoped no one would bring up. We can get very "lawyerly" about this quite easily. About anything really, if we choose to do so.

The sixth Commandment: "Thou shall not kill". What could seem more blunt and simple to understand? Yet if I google "thou shall not kill" and "explain" I get 42,000 pages of arguments dealing with what seems to be a very simple 4 word command.

I think the OP was made with what I think were some legitimate assumptions in order to keep the post brief and readable. If he had tried to explain every nuance, discrepancy, contingency, or circumstance, he might have made his statement more bulletproof, but, I, for one, wouldn't have taken the time to wade through all the legalese.

"...moral and ethical consistency that matches your actions." The Aztecs used to rip the hearts out of children, but apparently this action was consistent with their morals and ethics since it was a religious ceremony but, I don't think the OP was considering there may be some Aztecs reading his post.

He didn't cover every base, but I thought his point was clear enough. I knew he didn't mean to excuse bush's actions because they are consistent with his twisted ethics and morals. I think he was speaking to us with the assumption that, being members of DU, our ethical and moral stances are similar enough that he could make that assumption. I think he was right in that assumption, and, while your points are good and valid, his statement still seemed clear in it's meaning to me.

[uppityperson]

69. good afternoon

just got power back, went off as I was typing last night. Thank you for your writings, I see and understand and agree with you, so far as humane morals go. I disagre with the OP's definitions, thus I am writing. Interesting topic though.

[sammythecat]

71. This was nice.

To have a disagreement and remain civil and friendly. Neither one of us was "wrong". We just came at it with slightly different, valid, perspectives. No flaming, we explained our positions, and we both maybe learned a little something from each other. That's when the DU is at it's best, in my opinion.

Thanks, and a very good afternoon to you too!

[BushOut06]

29. 42

That's the meaning of life.

[canetoad]

30. Works for me. nt

[sammythecat]

32. huh?

[canetoad]

33. TY sammy

for posting such an.....american response

[sammythecat]

41. Gateway to knowledge, that word

Also we don't have to move our lips much.

[Sgent]

37. 42 is from "A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything (wikipedia)

[canetoad]

44. Yes I know that

It comes from a 20 yr old whimsical sci-fi novel. Please dont tell me it shapes your view on the currnent world situation.

[Sgent]

34. 42...

But what's the queston?

[canetoad]

45. The question is

for how long will USA believe the self produced and promulgating hype of its own information services.

I am one of the handful of ferengi on this board. You are meant to be the representation of the left side of politics. You disappoint me with your bickering while the world becomes a more precarious place as your leaders advance their own financial agendas. Do you not understand that you are not loved and admired, but hated because you, all 300 million of you, accept the self serving politics that has reduced the world to being afraid of America.

I have not seen one person in this thread who has the guts to call me a liar, rather you hedge, undermine, call doubts - and to me this is representative of your society. It disgusts me. America, you are competitiveness gone wild.

You are self interest personified. And this coming from a country that is supposedly allied with you. Give me none of that, I want nothing to do with your selfish, instantaneous society.

To those of you here who think before you speak and act, this is not directed to you. I'm disappointed that these comments seem to represent the majority of yr culture. I wish it were different.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

46. I wouldnt call you a liar.

I asked you to clarify your muddy thinking (specifically, what you meant by "standing out from the crowd"), and you at least tried to clarify, and I thanked you for trying. However, I'm still not sure what you're trying to say, in part because you're trying to say too many things at once, and none of them too clearly.

[canetoad]

50. Right back at ya arnold

Exactly what nuance of moral and ethical consistency escapes you?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

52. Precision escapes you.

[canetoad]

58. Nope, it does not.

That was a cliched and not-very-well-thought-out comment.

There are times when precision is required (measure twice cut once), but when expressing thoughts and opinions, precision is very much a construct of the receiver, who may or may not demand factual accuracy. In this case, I'm expressing opinions, therefore comments about precision are moot. Unless Bush has made a signing statement to the contrary.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

60. "Precision escapes you" is a cliche?

You'd think a cliche would have made it into Google.
Try it again: "Precision escapes you."

[crispini]

48. "You are meant to be the representation of the left side of politics."

Oh, boy. One thing you DO want to take into consideration here is that this is the internet. In a lot of ways the view one gets online is just as distorted (albeit in a different way) as the view one gets from the mass media. I know a LOT of local Democratic activists and citizens who are NOT online.

As for calling you a liar... are you wanting people to call you a liar re: your OP? Because, well, it's your OPINION, you know, and "liar" seems to be a bit strong of a word regarding an opinion. I don't agree with your OP, but I wouldn't call you a liar on it. :shrug:

Hey, I see by your profile you're from Melbourne! Nice city, I was there a few weeks ago and will probably be back again sometime this year. How's the smoke?

[canetoad]

51. Thank you

No.
No.
It is.
It's fine.

[crispini]

57. So I've thought about your OP.

I've decided that there isn't one. A meaning of life, that is.

Other than the film, of course. ;)

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

49. Ferengi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi
"They and their culture are characterized by a mercantile obsession with profit and trade, and their constant efforts to swindle people into bad deals."

(Had to look that one up. Quit watching TV years ago. Meaning of life=Opportunity to learn to understand your lovers.)

adw

[canetoad]

53. It's a loose translation of an old afghan word

meaning foreigners, but commonly used to describe outsiders.

Glad Wiki was able to enhance yr knowledge. Next time read a reliable source.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

55. "Meaning of life=Opportunity to learn to understand your lovers."

That's loverly.

[canetoad]

56. Can I join you

in a group barf.

I was only half joking when I said Americans live in a soap opera. Half serious.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

59. "Can I join you in a group barf." ... I'll pass.

You started out as a little philosopher of sorts
& are winding up as a guy with a big grudge.

[deepthought42]

63. Life, the universe...and everything!

You beat me to it! :)

[Superman Returns]

54. wait...what?

[B Calm]

70. I found the Meaning of Life the day my wife gave birth to our son.

[Lilith Velkor]

72. Mazel tov! Me, I looted the meaning of life.

That is, I realized that life only has the meanings you give it.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

CONSERVATISM- is good until you need someone to go out on a limb for you.
^by which you mean individualist capitalism? Hm...maybe.

LIBERALISM- is good until you need to stand out from the crowd.
^you seem to mean authoritarian socialism, which liberalism is far from. I'd say liberalism is good unless it involves being nice to fascists.

RELIGION- is good until others don't treat you the way you treated them.
So give Satan a try. Bob's your uncle.

ANARCHY- is good until someone parks over your driveway.
Come the revolution, we'll probably be out of oil anyway... :shrug: