Gays only 2% or less?

[Strathos]

Hi guys. I know I shouldn't do it, but I argue with a lot of freepers on another forum and one of them insists that homosexuals are only 1 to 2 percent of the population.

He cites a study that was supposedly supported by many professional gay people.

I'm wondering if anyone can refute this study.

Here's the link- http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IF04A01

I know from being gay and being out for the last 20 years that we are a great number of people. I've been to the San Francisco gay pride parade and let me tell you, there were a lot of people there, like millions.

So, what do you think about the study and about the 2% vs. 10%?

Thanks!

[HappyWeasel]

1. What I think...

I think that:

3% are totally homosexual
another 10% are bisexual- this about 13%. Then again the exit polls said about 1 in 25 Americans are homosexual. The same exit poll said that 3 in 10 homosexuals voted for Bush. (Why don't they just vote for Bandarik, unless they want to go to jail to get sex).

I got this from my psychology text. Then again, my psychology professor was openly homosexual.

[Atman]

5. So are bis "gay" then?

How are bis counted, anyway. Does performing acts that are otherwise considered "gay" make one gay, even if they're "straight" 95% of the time? Just, uh...bi curious! LOL!

.

[HappyWeasel]

19. well....

I had a couple of girlfriends that said they were bisexual. My wife admires well-developed breasts....but I don't think any of them are actually bisexual. There is a spectrum that we all fall on, you know....the Kinsean spectrum.


0 Heterosexual 30%
1 Heterosexuals who have expiremented with homosexuality 20%
2 "Bicurious" heterosexual 20%
3 bisexual, but not counted as gay 10%
4 bisexual, can be counted as a homosexual 14%
5 homosexual, but not flamboyant and maybe is a man that likes brests or a lesbian that is attracted to penises 3%
6 Homosexual 3%

Its pretty skewed, but the need for people to procreate becomes evident. Although, with violence becoming more and more universally dangerous, we may see a growth in the proportion of homosexuals born in order due to the need to alleivate violence.

[Zhade]

49. As has been explained on DU countless times, being gay is NOT just about the sex.

It includes, and is primarily about, what gender(s) you are attracted to and can feel romantic feelings for.

[Atman]

2. I think 1 - 2% us very low. Doesn't count the all the closeted fundies

and GOP House members. There's another couple percent right there.

Seriously, though, I think 1-2% is way too low, just from personal experience (hmm...that doesn't sound the way I wanted it to!). I mean, I have a gay cousin who actually "married" in Massachusetts, and my wife has a family member who is a tranny. I'm an artist and worked in the women's fashion industry for years, so perhaps I run into a greater percentage of gay people than the average jamoke, but still...I think closer to 10% is more accurate, but that's just gut, no evidence.

.

[slackmaster]

3. Self-reports are always problemmatic in this kind of research

You have to look closely at what questions were asked, and how they were asked, in order to see if the study in any way discouraged people from honest self-disclosure. Sometimes cultural definitions permit men who have had sex with men in the past to say honestly that they are heterosexual.

My personal opinion based on 48 years of casual observation and interacting with many thousands of people is that about 5% of the male population is actually homosexual or bisexual. With females, maybe a little higher. I have heard many anedotal reports of women who are predominantly heterosexual but have had a same-sex fling or three. A woman I dated in high school was living with a woman as a lover for many years, but has recently decided to try to find a man to settle down with. A gay man who was a mentor of mine in my early 20s and is now about 80 years old, with two grown children, is still married to the same woman last I heard.

Human behavior is complex and nuanced. I recommend not being very concerned about what one set of numbers says compared to another. It really doesn't matter IMO.

[Ian David]

4. There's also THIS... 10% Of Straight Men Have Sex With Men, New York

Almost 10% of men who said they were straight had had sex with at least one man during the last twelve months, according to a new study carried out by the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. 70% of them were married. Many of these men said they had not used a condom and had not been tested for HIV.

In fact, the researchers found that straight men who had had sex with another man during the previous year were less likely to use a condom than gay men who had had sex with another man during the previous year.

A large proportion of the straight men who had had sex with another man were either of low economic or educational status, were foreign born and lived outside the Manhattan area.

The researchers were surprised that so many married straight men admitted to having sex with another man.

You can read about this study in Annals of Internal Medicine.

More:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=52259

[Atman]

8. The Anals of Internal...wha? Oh...never mind.

I mis-read that!

:)

.

[wiley]

39. Annals, Babe. REAL cheap humor, though. Got any fart jokes? Keep them to

YO self!

[kay1864]

6. Try this webpage

It cites several studies, which yield ranges around 2-6%.

http://www.plu.sg/main/facts_05.htm

[Strathos]

31. Thanks! Good page

eom

[soleft]

7. For years I always heard 4 percent

[HappyWeasel]

10. That's what the CNN exit poll for 2004 said.

[Warpy]

9. OUT gays in big cities, maybe

I had a friend who, back in the 70s and early 80s, used to cruise rest stops on the way to suburbs for sex with workadaddies on the way home to the wife and kiddies. When AIDS hit, he mended his ways, but that's another story. He's alive and healthy, so he didn't spread anything to anyone, thank goodness, especially himself.

It seems there are a lot of closeted gays with families and/or bisexual men out there who will never admit it and who will never be counted as long as there is shame associated with sex in general and gay sex in particular.

My own gaydar puts it at about 10%, and since my gaydar is more efficient for women than men, it's probably higher than that.

We'll never have an accurate count until homosexuality is finally recognized as just another harmless variation of human sexuality.

[HappyWeasel]

14. Hmmm...my gaydar puts it between 3-5%. I know my LSAT proctor was a bit effeminate. Some people...

its hard to tell though...I also knew that I had a co-worker that was a homosexual.

[Warpy]

17. I grew up on the edges of showbiz

and classmates started to come out to me when I was 14. I was the class weirdo and I suppose they thought that would make me less judgmental. They were right.

It's something I always just accepted as perfectly normal.

[Captain Hilts]

11. No, 10% for men, and 6% for women. These are the most stable numbers.

Over time and methods.

[Orsino]

12. Eliminate the discrimination, and maybe we'll find out for sure.

I don't see why it should matter, though, whether non-heterosexuals are one percent, or fifteen percent. The insistence on the first figure, in the absence of evidence, is a red flag for bigotry.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. Urban Institute studies...

http://www.urban.org/publications/1000491.html

Why are they insisting this? Does a low percentage number make them expendable? Extinguishable? Not qualified to receive the same rights as U.S. citizens? Freepers are truly odd.

[Strathos]

16. Yes, I think so

I think by being a low number, we don't warrant the right to be married or have certain protections within the law.

The mentality is "they're only 2% of the population, why change for that small a number"?

[bullimiami]

15. if gays are between 1-2% of the population that means there are

4-5+ million of them in the us.

my own minority, the jewish one, only has about 5.5 million or 1.75% so they are pretty comperably sized.

what if they didnt recognize jewish marriages and had anti jewish marriage amendments popping up all over.

[Strathos]

18. Completely agreed

but some would say Jewish isn't a race and they don't deserve any special rights or privileges either.
However, some laws were changed or added to protect Jews from discrimination.

I'm not saying that, but that's the argument presented. I think everyone needs to be treated equally and fairly, well, not child abusers or pedophiles. Anyone that hurts the innocent gets no protection.

[HappyWeasel]

22. Although the "special rights" argument is full of shit.

Is it a "special right" to be black and free?
Is it a "special right" to be a woman and vote?
Is it a "special right" to be a homosexual and married?

Then again, we could use this to argue for abortion by stating it is a "special right" to live physically inside of someone else without their permission. Would a court enforce a contract like that if a realized person did that? lol.

[TechBear_Seattle]

20. The two studies being referenced used different questions, different populations

The famous Kinsey study of the 1950s, which gives the 10% number, used the population of prisons and mental institutions and asked about behavior over the previous one year. Over the last 50 years, many of Kinsey's results have been discredited because of the many egregious flaws in his sample populations and methodologies.

A latter study in the mid 1990s (I don't recall the name, sorry), which gives the 2% number, sampled the whole population of the United States and asked about behavior and attraction over the person's entire life time. This study has been peer-reviewed and found to have used accepted statistical sampling procedures and methodologies.

As others have pointed out, the real issue is not the actual numbers; even 1.5% of the US population is several million people. The real issue is homophobia.

[lectrobyte]

21. Labels are generally only useful on cans of soup, I thought someone

figured out that sexuality was more of a continuum than a binary system a long time ago. Whether 2%, 5% or 10%, don't they deserve the same rights and treatment as the rest of us? That seems like a better question to ask.

[HappyWeasel]

25. yeah, this is about it.

[tandot]

23. Here is a link to a study published in 1995:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/qq42716198161858/

"Abstract Researchers determining the prevalence of homosexuality in nationally representative samples have focused upon determining the prevalence of homosexual behavior, ignoring those individuals whose sexual attraction to the same sex had not resulted in sexual behavior. We examine the use of sexual attraction as well as sexual behavior to estimate the prevalence of homosexuality in the United States, the United Kingdom, and France using the Project HOPE International Survey of AIDS-Risk Behaviors. We find that 8.7, 7.9, and 8.5% of males and 11.1, 8.6, and 11.7% of females in the United States, the United Kingdom, and France, respectively, report some homosexual attraction but no homosexual behavior since age 15. Further, considering homosexual behavior and homosexual attraction as different but overlapping dimensions of homosexuality, we find 20.8, 16.3, and 18.5% of males, and 17.8, 18.6, and 18.5% of females in the United States, the United Kingdom, and France report either homosexual behavior or homosexual attraction since age 15. Examination of homosexual behavior separately finds that 6.2, 4.5, and 10.7% of males and 3.6, 2.1, and 3.3% of females in the United States, the United Kingdom, and France, respectively, report having had sexual contact with someone of the same sex in the previous 5 years. Our findings highlight the importance of using more than just homosexual behavior to examine the prevalence of homosexuality."

However, the data probably does not include the many closeted Republican homophobes who pretend to be straight while secretly f*cking male prostitutes.

[CurtEastPoint]

24. This is like 'where did the universe come from'. We'll never know and what does it matter?

If gays are .0001%, 1% or 10%.. what difference does it make? Everyone deserve respect and to be treated equally.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

26. seconded. great post.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. i dont understand why people thinks its ok to discriminate if the percentages are lower

[Rosemary2205]

28. 2% is equal to refusing marriage rights to 8 states

Maybe we should stop recognizing marriages from

Wyoming, Vermont, South Dakota, North Dakota, Alaska, Delaware, Montana and Hawaii.

That is about 6 million Americans or 2%.

[mondo joe]

29. Irrelevant. What percentage of the population are Jews?

Would we deny Jews equal rights based on that answer?

[gollygee]

30. Yeah -why do freepers care what the percentage is?

Is the thought that they aren't enough people to worry about them? *sigh*

[skypilot]

32. Just more freeper idiocy.

Folks on the right have been trying to lowball the percentage of gays for years. I guess it is an attempt to make gays out to be politically insignificant due to the supposed small number of us. This makes the freepers' constant harping on all things gay all the more inexplicable: a group that in their minds makes up a small percentage of the population causes them so much consternation.

[npincus]

33. I've always heard approx 15%

[Orangepeel]

34. it says "identify themselves as gay, lesbian or bisexual"

First of all, I don't know why it matters if it is 3% (the link says 2.8, not 2) or 10% of people. Does whether or not a group of people deserve rights depend on how many of them there are? What percent of the world's population is Jewish? 1%? That doesn't excuse the Holocaust!

Second, I haven't read the study in question, which is cited as being cited in a legal brief by a bunch of gay-friendly organizations filed in support of two gay people suing the state of Texas. The study may or may not be well done and it may or may not actually say 2.8%.

But, even the source cited says that 2.8% identified themselves as gay, lesbian or bisexual. I don't if this was worldwide, in the US or in the state of Texas. But, in part because of groups of assholes like the Family Research Council you link to, how many people who are gay spend their whole, unhappy lives trying to deny and suppress it?

[Madspirit]

35. Gays/lesbians

We are supposed to be about 10% actually. Of course the right-wing idiots have studies to support what they contend. Idiots also do studies and if you have an agenda you can make a study have the results that back your agenda. ..and a few on the left have something up their asses about us too.
Fuck them all. Go find studies from Groups/colleges/medical associations, etc. who have no political agenda.

Plus, you might note, while the right insists there are just a tiny tiny amount of us, they also insist that...somehow...we...with our tiny numbers were able to totally bully The American Medical Association, The American Psychological Association and The American Psychiatric Association to take us off their list of disorders. ...and we force...even though we have tiny microscopic numbers, the left to "pretend" they like us. We sure are powerful for such tiny tiny numbers.

Real shrinks and studies, etc. list us at about 10%. ...and I don't have time to look anything up for you right now but I will, at some point, if you want.

They want to minimize us and demonize us and take our power while whining that we have too much power. I puke on them.
Madspirit

[Strathos]

37. Good points! I'll make a note of that in my pad

Seriously, awesome. The "note of that in my pad" is a line from AbFab.

Thanks!

[devilgrrl]

36. 2% of gays aren't into Barbara Streisand, Judy Garland or Joan Crawford

that's what the "study" is really citing. :silly:

[Madspirit]

38. 2% of gays aren't into Barbara Streisand, Judy Garland or Joan Crawford

Joan Crawford?! JOAN CRAWFORD!! <g> Ms. "Wire Hangers"! Not me. I like Streisand's politics but I'm more of a hard rocker...(ol' Austin Hippie and all)...and Judy Garland...beautiful, brilliant and pathetic. ...and not really into her movies...except TWoO...or her music.
...and lesbians don't fanwank over these people that much. The stereotype here would be gay guys. Lesbians would be more...Jody Foster.
Madspirit

[Bluebear]

42. 'The stereotype here would be gay guys'

And a pretty narrow stereotype as well. Maybe a small subgroup of gay men are 'into' those figures. Me, more into the Red Sox, Motown and Fargo but that's me.

[devilgrrl]

61. I was being facecious...

so sorry that it flew over everyone's head. :eyes:

[NMMNG]

40. The freepers go out of their way to marginalize who and what we are

They claim that our numbers are smaller than what they are, that our lifespans are shorter, that we have much lower monogamy rates, etc. They do anything they can to make us seem less than straight people and, therefore, less human and less deserving of the same rights as other humans.


I say to hell with them and their lies.

[Madspirit]

45. BuffytheFundieSlayer

Whoohoohoo...another Whedon fan!
Willow should turn all these people into toadies. Oh wait...they already are toadies.
Madspirit

[Jamastiene]

41. I think it's bullshit.

When push comes to shove, we (meaning GLBT people all combined) outnumber the freeps any day of the week. I just wish the demographics were a little more spread out. Let more freeps in my area actually meet more gay people and they wouldn't be such freeps any more, IMHO. Now, some would be hard headed no matter what, but who needs them anyhow?

2% is definitely a bullshit statistic. It might be 2% in Bumfuckt Rockingham, North Carolina, but that's only because the freeps in this area ran the majority of the gay people out with their retarded violence. So that gives places like Asheville 18% instead of the usual 10%. Or it could be 14% for Asheville and 14% for Greensboro because gay people tend to want to leave small towns filled with people who have even smaller minds. I still think it's probably at least 10% if not more nationwide and worldwide. It's just that the cooler cities have more of us. I win the lottery or save up enough money, Rockingham, NC is going to have one less gay person to count in its percentages. San Fran will probably become just a tad little gayer in that case too. :D

[mtnsnake]

58. You've actually touched upon the reason why the electoral college favors Republicans

In general,

Cities and urban areas = more progressive and open mindedness ----> far more Democrats

Small towns and rural areas = conservative and close mindedness ------> far more Republicans

Yet, despite way more of the population actually being more progressive than not, the conservative rural areas enjoy an unbalanced advantage in swaying elections in favor of Republicans because of the way the electoral college is set up. The votes from rural areas represent much more of the final tally in the electoral college than what they really represent in the actual population.

[G Hawes]

43. I think the answer is that whether it's 2% or 10%

the point remains the same. The point being that equality and human rights are not contingent on any particular percentage.

[Madspirit]

47. I think the answer...

I love your point but I do think it matters because the Right uses their inaccurate stats as another way to marginalize us. ...but yeah, it shouldn't matter if there was only ten of us. That is no reason to deny us our rights and that is no reason to treat us like crap.

...and the right-wing is also full of hypocrites and idiots. My dad got it and he was extremely conservative but he backed gay marriage JUST because he thought a person should have complete control over their own body, their own money, their own estate, their own decisions. HE thought that should be obvious to a conservative. (He also supported Choice.)

The problem is the fundies....the religious nut-cases. (I mean...you know...we have a president who claims god speaks directly to him. That makes him either a liar or a schizophrenic. The rest of the world must really laugh at us.)
Madspirit

[theHandpuppet]

44. Since women outnumber men in the U.S.

Shouldn't we have the majority of representation in Congress? Should we let men vote? Shouldn't women run the show? Should men have the same rights as women, since they're in the minority?

The numbers game can be played in all manner of ways.

[SanCristobal]

46. Either way, I don't care if they get married.

Live and let live.:-)

[aikoaiko]

48. 2% is about right according the best methodological study within the US (NHSLS)

The National Health and Social Life Survey really was a quantum leap better in terms of methodology than any other survey of sexual matters.

http://cloud9.norc.uchicago.edu/faqs/sex.htm
http://www.rwjf.org/files/publications/books/1997/chapter_11.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation

The smug response from the right (regarding 2%) is fallout from the overestimated Kinsey report numbers and homophobia. Kinsey was great for pushing the boundary in terms of describing what sex was being had in the US, but his methods were pitiful for describing incidence or prevalence.

But just because 2% is less than 10% and, in some ways, disadvatanges gay rights campaigns, we cannot ignore the science.

FWIW, here are some of my notes on the Kinsey and NHSLS results:

B. Kinsey Scale.

1. In Kinsey’s time (1930-1940s) one assumed everyone was heterosexual and that one act of homosexuality made you a homosexual forever.

2. No particular distinction was made between sexual behavior, sexual orientation, and sexual identity.

3. Kinsey recognized that many people had both same and different sex behaviors.

4. Kinsey devised a seven-point scale (0-6) where 0 represented exclusive heterosexuality, and represented exclusive homosexuality, and 3 represented approximately equal amounts of homosexual and heterosexual behaviors.

a. 4 - 6% of men were rated as "6"
b. 10 % of men were rated 4, 5, or 6
c. 18% of men were rated as 3, 4, 5, or 6
d. 37% of all men experienced orgasm in a sexual activity with another man at some time in their life.
e. 60% of all men had some type of homosexual relationship before they were age 16.
f. 30% of all men had some type of homosexual relationship between age 20 - 24.

5. This conceptualization of sexuality helped the US population rethink their collective views of what it means to be homosexual and heterosexual.

C. Kinsey's Assessment of Prevalence

1. Almost everyone wants to know the prevalence of homosexuality.

2. The usual statistic cited comes from Kinsey’s surveys in the 1940’s and 1950’s.

a. At least one homosexual experience
i. Men – 37%
ii. Women – 13%
b. Extensive homosexual experiences (>=21 partners or >= 52 experiences) or more than incidental homosexual experiences (>= 5, <= 20).
i. Men – 13.95%
ii. Women – 4.25%
iii. This averages to about 10% and is the figure often cited (1 in 10).
c. Re-interviews of some of Kinsey’s interviewees suggested that most of the homosexual experiences occurred before the age of 20.


4. NHSLS Assessment of Prevalence

a. Found that most people change their sexual behavior over the course of a lifetime and this makes it difficult to classify people into static categories.
b. No unique desires define people as gay, straight, or bisexual; or behaviors either.
c. Three types of questions.

i. About sexual desires.
ii. About sexual behavior.
iii. About self-identification.

d. Desire

i. “In general are you attracted to… only women, mostly women, both men and women, mostly men, or only men.
• 4% of women and
• 6% of men say they are attracted to others of the same sex.
ii. When asked about how appealing they found in thinking about having sex with someone of their own sex,
• 5.5% of women
• 4% of men said it was appealing or very appealing.

e. Sexual behavior.

i. Women
• 2% in the previous year.
• 4% since 18.
ii. Men
• 2% in the previous year.
• 9% since puberty (almost half before 18).
iii. Men tend to have homosexual experiences before 18 and women tend to have them after 18.

f. Self-identification

i. 2.8% of men identified themselves as homosexual or bisexual.
ii. 1.4% of women identified themselves as homosexual or bisexual.
iii. Almost half of the people who report sex appeal to the same sex did not engage in any homosexual behavior.

edited to clean up the notes a bit.

[aikoaiko]

50. I hate being a thread killer. :(

someone else say something.

[Madspirit]

53. Not a Thread Killer...

You didn't kill the thread. I just hate Kinsey. I used to admire his work until some shrink friends of mine pointed something out to me. I have read his books on human sexuality. In them he talks about how often small boys, even babies, can orgasm. My friends pointed out that there is only ONE way they could study and know about the orgasms of children. Only one. A pedophile in the name of science...is still a pedophile.

Plus, there is NO way to really estimate the number of gays/lesbians. So many are not completely out or out at all and by definition a study is limited. A "study" is really just a "guess" in a lab coat.

Plus, sexuality is not really that static for many people. My neighbor is with a man. She used to be with women and who knows who she might be with in the future. ...and my girlfriend of 15 years used to be married to a man.

We are normal, just different. ...much like left-handedness. We exist in every species. ...and for anyone who likes to point out..."how can you be normal if you don't help procreate the species"...that is the most inane argument of all. My uterus did not fall out because I am a lesbian. I know more pregnant lesbians than I do straight women. Plus, the only purpose of humans is not just to procreate. That's not even the only purpose of insects.

Lastly, I really really get tired of being discussed like an Object or Freak Show thing and I hate that it is up to others whether I have rights or not.

Madspirit

[ruggerson]

55. I disagree

Exit polling data is far more extensive and far more reliable than the NHSLS study. For starters, exit polling data has a statistical sample of thousands of more people than the NHSLS study did.

CNN Exit polling data from 96, 2000 and 2004 show that 4-5% of the voting public self identifies to a pollster as gay or lesbian.

Two things about this: other population groups which are more readily identifiable than gays, sample out in the voting polling data with roughly the same numbers and percentages as they actually are in the general population (voting and non voting). Thus, we can extrapolate that the argument that more gays vote statistically than other groups, has no rational basis.

Secondly, we can assume that there is likely a group of gay and lesbian voters who DO NOT readily identify themselves to a pollster. Thus the 4-5% figure may likely be higher.

I never believed Kinsey, because his surveys are flawed.

But the best hard evidence we have shows that the population is 4-5%, my guess is that it is in reality in the 5-7% range, if you include closted people who would never divulge that kind of information to a stranger seeking statistical information.

[aikoaiko]

63. True, but exit data is not a represenative sample -- only surveys politically motivated.

Those who vote make up about 60% of the US adult population and the GLB crowd tends to be politically active and motivated. Without seeing any other data, I would expect to see self identified homosexuals over represented in exit polls.

But your right about people not reporting their homosexuality out of fear or privacy. No one knows exactly how to correct for this effect.

[ruggerson]

66. Exit data reflects other minorities actual percentage of the population

There is roughly the same percentage of blacks that vote as are in the general population. Same for Hispanics and Jews and Catholics. Women vote in slightly greater numbers than men do, just as they slightly outnumber men in the population at large.

Since the percentages of all these groups in exit polling data mirror their actual numbers in the population at large, why do you assume that gays and lesbians would be the only population whose numbers would be exaggerated in exit polling data?

[aikoaiko]

68. I am under the impression that gays and lesbians in America

have more money, more time, and more of a connection to politics than the general population. These factors might lead gays and lesbians to vote in higher proportions than other minority segments.

However, I can't find any good cites at quick notice. I'll keep looking when I get a chance. Or perhaps you already agree with those three characterizations, but not my conclusion.

[begin_within]

51. But actual homosexual behavior is more like 50% of the population, I would estimate.

[terrya]

52. I think it's bullshit.

There are gay and lesbian folks in small towns who may feel very uneasy about self-identified as gay or lesbian in studies or surveys. There are a lot of people in the closet.

I do think we comprise 10% of the population.

And if we weren't 10% of the population, so what? That link is from the Family Research Council, a virulently homophobic organization. The bigots at the FRC and others like them love to bandy about the "we're only 2% of the population" stuff to make a claim that we are undeserving of equal rights. That's disgusting. Consenting adults in loving relationships should have the right to legal same-sex marriage, the right to adopt and gay and lesbian people should not be discriminated against in employment, housing and serve openly in the military. It doesn't matter if we're 10% or 2%.

[Madspirit]

54. Family Research Council

Oh yeah...and like is said above...The Family Research Council is VERY right wing.
Madspirit

[ruggerson]

56. Best evidence (exit polling data) shows that it is 4-5%

The exit polling data from 96, 2000 and 2004 is more reliable than the NHSLS which sampled 3,432 people.

If you take into account that there are many people that would not divulge that kind of information to pollsters, you can safely assume that it is 5% or higher.

Now that we've provided you with this information, would you kindly provide us with the link to this public forum wherein you argued this with a rightwinger?

Thank you in advance.

[bridgit]

57. the umbrella proclivities of human sexuality include not only 'gay', but...

gay curious, bi-sexual, bi-curious, un-acted upon, or acted out homo-erotic thought patterns, flat-out same-sex with like minded consenting folk (and they do not consider themselves 'gay'), etc; and that number is nearer to 25-30%

freepers have every conceivable number back-ass-wards, upside down, or flat-ass wrong = Go Team Freepers!! :rofl:

[Bucky]

65. "Umbrella proclivities"? Wow, that's a new one to me!

Mrraowwwrrr!! Sex-yyyy, baby! I guess you never know what some people are in to.

[Hamlette]

59. interesting fact about another minority I think is underreported

atheists. As part of the 2001 study on religion in the US they asked, for the first time (they do the poll every 10 years) "do you live with someone who is an atheist or agnostic? 19% said they did yet only about 10% said they were. That has to mean people were lying and would not admit they were atheist. Could the same thing work in a poll on gays? The exact same question wouldn't work but maybe a question like someone in your family?

I understand why you think it is higher. I too can't believe only 5-19% of Americans are atheists. Must be much higher but people are afraid to admit. But part of the issue is I don't hang out with religious people.

[Madspirit]

60. Not the Same exactly.

Atheism is a belief. Gayness is what we ARE, part of the essence of our being.
...and just fyi...if you want to add me to another stat, I am also an atheist.
Madspirit

[Hamlette]

62. agreed, I was talking more about how to "discover" real numbers

when people might be inclined to lie to a pollster.

Of course, for me, lying about being an atheist is so last century.

[kevinbgoode]

64. Oh puh-leeze. . .Freepers know nothing about the gay population

For godsakes, these loons spend their whole lives making up shit, or repeating gossip manufactured by wingnut propaganda organs.

However, there is one reason why we don't have a definitive census of gay Americans - the con-servatives don't want it acknowledged. Then you'd still have to add some to that total, even if we had it, because of the closet cases who live in fear of con-servative wrath if they "come out."

They have absolutely no idea. Maybe if more Freeps would come of their own gay closet, we could get a more accurate count.

[ruggerson]

67. I have asked the OP to provide a link to this public forum

where he supposedly argued these figures with rightwingers.

So far, no response.

Which is kind of what I expected.

If you get my drift.