You cannot win a culture war by killing people

[Az]

There is no military solution for the war in Iraq. The problem is one of culture and that cannot be surmounted by military efforts.

We wish to foster our style of democracy in Iraq. A society dominated by a fundamentalist religious mindset. Democracy depends on consensus and tolerance of diverse views. Fundamentalist religions create intolerance and demand that power comes from authority.

In order to "win" in Iraq you must destroy their culture. This is not a winnable goal via any humane path. The people behind this war may be starting to realize this. Their call to continue and escelate the war is entirely political in motivation. There is no win/win scenario possible in this conflict. The mistake was going in in the first place. All we can do now is find the most humane means to extricate ourselves and hand their country back to them and humbly beg for forgiveness.

[SanCristobal]

1. Not true at all.

If you can't win by killing people then why are the insurgents doing so well? They seem to be killing far more people then we are, most of whom are civilians. The point is moot anyway, as our intent has never been to kill people but to help them. We pride ourselves on the lengths we have gone to in avoiding civilian death and the efforts we have taken to try and improve peoples lives.

We never wanted to foster our style of democracy in Iraq, only a style of democracy. We openly accepted Islamist candidates and ministers for the Iraqi government since the war began, and never made a strong attempt to promote secular governance. We hardly made an attempt to promote federal governance, which would seem a necessary condition for stability in a country with demographics as fractured as Iraq.

Winning doesn't need to involve destroying Iraqi culture, unless you are referring to the culture of violence which has taken over the country. The idea that Arabs can't handle democracy is a racist myth, Iraqi's already showed themselves to be more then friendly to the idea. Don't forget that they have higher turnout rates then we do, and Americans don't face death in order to vote. Successfully establishing a basic democratic government is the one minor success the new Iraqi state has had.

What winning does involve is stabilizing Iraq. The question is whether or not the US can achieve this, or if it must be left up to the Iraqi people to fight for on their own.

[Monomorphic]

2. You just have to kill them all...

[Orsino]

3. It's usually the *only* way.

We shouldn't fight culture wars, anyway.

[Lilith Velkor]

4. No, but you can make money

That's really all this is about. It's never been about democracy on any level except lip service. If it were cultural, we would have invaded Saudi Arabia decades ago.

And BTW, Iraq had a secular culture before we invaded. That's why bin Laden wanted Saddam Hussein dead.