New Details in about Andy Stephenson? Was it not a prank, did RW'ers try to take him out?

[ck4829]

For those who don't know, Andy was a DU'er who became very sick, well it's all here in this story...

"There is a long tradition, at least as long as possible in online terms, of online activism. Usenet groups and web sites have proven to be handy tool in spearheading letter writing campaigns and petitions, and for organizing purposes. Howard Dean’s entire Presidential campaign was organized on-line, and while not successful in its main objective it did help build the network that was the basis of the Fifty-State Strategy that helped win back Congress for the Democrats two years later.

But in the hands of the right wing, the internet has proven to be a much more insidious tool, providing organizational and networking tools for intimidation, and worse, of those who disagree with them. Like the KKK before them, right-wingers ride through the electronic night seeking to keep people they see as wrong, or even less human than them through threats and intimidations. The major differences between these modern night riders and the invisible army on which they model themselves are that the crosses they burn are virtual ones, and instead of white hoods, they use pseudonyms and proxy registrars to shield their identity.

One significant example of cyber-lynching turned into real life injury is that of Andy Stephenson, an opponent of electronic voting machines. When Andy was diagnosed with cancer and found himself uninsured, a Democratic website he was a member of started a fund drive to pay his hospital bills. Shortly before he was due to be admitted to the hospital, Andy found his funds seized by on-line funds provider PayPal, which claimed to have received word that the fund drive was fraudulent, and froze the account pending an investigation. It later came out that people at at least one conservative website had started making small donations to Andy’s hospital fund, then claimed that the donations were actually examples of credit card fraud. By the time the funds could be released, Andy’s condition had significantly worsened and he died of complications from surgery shortly afterward. Whether this activity against Stephenson was a prank gone horribly wrong or a deliberate attempt to deny him medical care, the end result is the same. Stephenson died, chalking up a kill for the cyber-night riders."

http://pabsungenis.livejournal.com/116122.html

[trumad]

1. I wish Andys estate would go after these fucks.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Whoever filed the bogus complaints

should be held responsible.

Did anyone ever track down who did this?

[Kagemusha]

3. So that's what the Paypal thing was about?...

Gee, I mean, if you drew up this scenario in fiction no one would ever buy it. But Paypal at the time, yeah, if you wanted to bad enough, you could pull this on someone with a Paypal account, certainly. Hell, at the time I remember a lot of confusion.. like, the hospital saying that it wasn't being paid because of this account stuff, so it couldn't do anything? I'm going on memory there. I never made any decisions as to what the hell was going on at the time.

[Horse with no Name]

4. As far as I know

This info has been out there a long time. I didn't realize it was new information but would have to defer to sfexpat or benburch or greataunt or some of the others that were close to Andy to know for sure.

[ck4829]

5. This is the first time I heard the specifics...

That Conservatives donated and then called fraud. It seems like they should be apprehended, as they were the ones committing the fraud.

[Junkdrawer]

7. Yeah, I remember this was thoroughly discussed at the time...

IIRC, names were submitted to the FBI, but I never heard of any arrests. :shrug:

[Kelvin Mace]

30. Nope

not a thing was done. Absent money for a lawyer to sue, they have gotten off scott free.

[Snotcicles]

6. I remember all that back then. Those FUCKING BASTURDS. nt

[knitter4democracy]

8. I'm still pissed.

Here's my thing: if I choose to give money on-line, that's my choice. No one else who gives should be able to determine where my money goes. Only the person in charge can do that. They weren't in charge, but they gamed the system to hurt someone. I hope they, late at night in the dark of their souls, ponder the evil they did and tremble.

[madeline_con]

9. So, what about a fund to hire an attorney to investigate?

I'm not sure Paypal should be involved in it, though.

[Kelvin Mace]

31. Takes a lot of cash to go after these pricks

since they don't have any money to entice a lawyer to take it on contingency.

[G Hawes]

41. Will Pitt said in the old threads that he had lawyers on it

and that he was going to pursue the matter, so maybe he will provide an update on that. I read the archived threads on this and it's a pretty awful story.

[AikidoSoul]

10. Thank you! DUers recently blamed Bev Harris for this

And I knew it wasn't true.

It pisses me that to much of what is passed around is not checked out throughly. Bev is not perfect, but she is not the kind of slime that would every do such a sick thing.

[Ms. Clio]

11. you could not be more mistaken

I read some of the FReak Republic threads in which Bev happily participated.

[rumpel]

15. There are many causes culminating into an effect, direct and indirect

But the delay of his operation was certainly bad - John Hopkins stance was upsetting, too

and this subject was discussed at the time - so let's continue to work towards change in elections and healthcare


(btw your longhair, reminds me of our late dachsie...)

on edit: correction on clinic - duh

[BeHereNow]

16. BH did plenty aside from this debaucle.

I have no idea if BH was complicit in the incident you refer to.

In my mind, it is irrelevant.

Andy told me plenty about what she did to him
aside from this.

May she burn in hell for the things Andy told me and others
about her machinations and vindictive actions against him.

I loved Andy, as did many here on DU.
Can't say that about the other party you refer to.
quite the opposite actually.

BHN

[Kelvin Mace]

35. The movement is littered with the bodies

of her victims. What she did to Andy was the worst, but she hurt so many people.

[bettyellen]

18. Bev encouraged the rumours herself. She's one sick pupy.

[Richard Steele]

19. Actually, that's EXACTLY the type of slime she is. Sorry.

[salin]

20. there were some freep threads where she egged them on

claiming - quite affirmatively that Andy wasn't ill - the gang that then quickly put together the despicabl "Scamdy" website. She didn't cause the delay - but she stoked the flames in a big way.

[LeftyMom]

25. bev was actively promoting on right wing boards the idea that Andy wasn't sick

So let's not let her off the hook. After all, if she'd paid Andy's health care as she should have for an employee he could have had COBRA when she let him go (I seem to recall that one was another crazy story, feel free to look it up) this would not have been an issue, his care wouldn't have been delayed and he might very well still be alive.

[Garbo 2004]

27. And have you thoroughly checked out what you "know?" For one example, your certainty that

Harris raised funds for Andy?

[Kelvin Mace]

32. Hate to break it to you,

but Bev was deeply involved in the smear campaign against Andy, and egged on the Freepers.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

46. Um...Bev did express "doubt" on message boards about Andy's condition.

As far as I, and a whole bunch of people here who actually witnessed her "doubt" ridden messages, she has a
major share in the responsibility for the delay in Andy's treatment.

She is exactly the kind of slime who would do such a thing.

[Eric J in MN]

12. If the writer has evidence,

why doesn't he name "the people at at least one conservative website"?

[Kelvin Mace]

36. The people identified were reported

to the police and FBI. These organizations did nothing,saying it was a civil matter.

[pitohui]

13. not this again

facts not in evidence

at the time it was claimed that ONE donation of $10 was in dispute -- ONE donation

there was no prank gone horribly wrong, there was apparently one person who had second thoughts, as even did will pitt in the infamous "bro i need answers" thread

[bettyellen]

17. having second thoughts means you make a claim it is fraud?

that's how you handle a regret over 10$. Bullshit.
It was intentionally malicious, same as Bev and same as
some of the rumor mongers around here.

[pitohui]

21. again facts not in evidence

one person making a claim is not the same as an entire website or even several people making a claim

harris and stephenson had a falling out of two thieves as far as i'm concerned, they started the fund-raising game TOGETHER and that is a fact

what is the point of rehashing all this again?

[bettyellen]

22. what people here decided to do for andy was well after and separate from

his work for bev. he had a falling out with her because he came to question her shady dealings in the california case and she couldn't have that. she's an asshole who sandbagged a very sick man and people here- some unwittingly, others with full intent- assisted her. Maybe you're one of them. Other websites posted all sorts of misinformation and tossed around ideas about how to screw over Andy, how his illness was a sham, the fundraiser a game. Were you one of them? Not satisfied with the pictures of him in the hospital? I'm embarrassed by DU they felt the need to share those.
jesus fuck, the man died, all of the DUers who insuated that this illness was scam or game should STFU and crawl under a rock. I think they never understood how people could be so generous- they have to blame the recipient of the generosity, perhaps out of jealousy. No one twisted any arms or lied to get anyone to donate, got that? Hard as it is for you to believe, people here gave out of generosity and love, and the money was spent on surgery that went on for something like 7 hours. There's no scam there, no matter how hard you wish it to be so, the scam is all happening between your two ears.
Your post implying fund raising for andy had anything to do with BBV is pure bullshit. Andy was no mastermind, he was a sick and frightened man. People here encouraged him to explore costly treatment options outside of his local area because pancreatic cancer has such a low survival rate. How do I know this? I privately discussed it with him (and others) and felt unable to advise him as I was not as well versed on the subject as others. Andy was frightened, his sister had just does months earlier, he was scared to death of facing the knife, the only thing I encouraged him to do was decide where already, as any delay could make things worse for him. Easy for me to say, as he had people encouraging him to spend money he couldn't even imagine having at that point. It took a huge leap of faith for him to make that appointment at John Hopkins. To imply he did it as a game is truly twisted. I feel sorry for you.
Other people here decided to fund raise because you know what? They cared about him and wanted him to have the best. Nothing to do with that POS Bev.
The point of rehashing is to get it right, btw, and stop the shady BS spread from posts like yours. Shame on you.

[hfojvt]

43. I remember things differently

but I was further away, and not reading every thread on the subject. Given the number of threads spreading 2nd hand information there was a fair amount of contradictory information around. First, I read about raising funds for his operation from WilliamPitt, who later got mad because some of the things he claimed about Andy's treatment were said to be untrue. So it was not all that clear what kind of treatment Andy was going to get. And the fundraising had an aspect that bothered me.

First, it was stated that we needed to raise $25,000. That was done fairly quickly. Then the number changed. Turns out it was $50,000 we needed to raise, and so we needed to raise another $25,000. Later I read that Andy could have had the state pay for the operation if he had done it in his own state. So the $50,000 was not so that he could get medical care, it was so that he could get the best medical care. Sadly, even that was not good enough. But all of that information was not available at the start.

But if it was the delay in his treatment that killed him rather than the disease itself, then another huge part of that delay was the difficulties in raising money and consulting with Johns Hopkins, rather than doing things locally.

The way DU, or the web in general, passes information is kind of a sifting process. There is an OP which gets supported or debunked, and supporting or debunking opinions get supported or debunked. For an outside observer who has no inside sources, it's kinda hard to figure out what the truth is and who or what to believe.

[bettyellen]

44. there were misunderstandings along the way, but some people used them to foster

doubt, to imply that deception occurred when it didn't. and the poster i responded to, hfojt, is doing just that- intentionally. much like some posters sought to muddy the waters and tar andy in the process while this was happening. some questioned innocently as you claim, but many spurred them on by creating issues out of whole cloth.
for example, andy llived on the west coast and johns hopkins is on the east coast, details were given early on about the vaccination program at JH (because pancreatic cancer has an extremely high rate of recurring tumours) and that's why he made that choice, and if you missed it, doesn't mean you were lied to. It means you didn't know everything.
Speaking of which, many people hear expected somehow to know the details and prognosis before Andy and the surgeons did. They weren't just impatient, they were trying to make Andy look like he was faking it by asking what was as yet unanswerable- and splitting hairs about it. And you know what? If they did research before posting her, they would have know that. Some of the people sowed confusion deliberately, when they'd be totally debunked on one issue, and still find something else to try and upset people with. Many were Bevbots, and funnily enough many Bev haters too, others just sad and angry individuals. But much of it it went beyond innocent questioning, we all remember how malicious it was. Please don't try and downplay how cruel and deceptive some of these people were. I have a mailbox full of nasty PMs to remind me.

[Kelvin Mace]

28. Sorry, you have the facts wrong

I was there from the beginning. I left before Andy and tried to convince him that Bev was bad news. Unfortunately, he didn't believe me until much later that Bev was deranged and in it for the money.

Calling Andy a thief is not something that will in you any friends around here.

[Pastiche423]

42. Kindly

STFU about something you have no knowledge of.

You were not here when bev dramatically burst onto DU and proceeded to scam DUers out of money and research time. She wasn't the one that did the majority of research on BBV, it was DUers!

It's in the archives. Look it up.

She was banned from this site twice.

It's in the archives. Look it up.

She fired Andy on her website for the whole world to see, then claimed to Randi Rhodes she knew nothing about it.

It's in the archives. Look it up.

She claimed Andy wasn't sick when we had proof from John Hopkins that he was.

It's in the archives. Look it up.

I met Andy (cyberly) in 2002. We chatted together on another website late into the night. I created graphics for his business. When he decided to run for SoS for Washington state, I donated to his campaign. But when he went to work for bev, I told him I still loved him but couldn't communicate w/him as long as he worked for her. I begged him to watch his back.

Your "facts" are nothing but lies. Kindly butt out.

[elehhhhna]

24. YEah, uh, baloney. You have "second thoughts" AKA Buyers remorse so you

claim Credit Card Fraud to "clear it up"? WTF?

Please. Being liberal doesn't mean EXfuckignCUSING every mean, ignorant thing you hear about.

[johnaries]

33. Excuse me? They FROZE the entire account because of that

fraud claim.

The infamous donor made the donation in order to claim fraud and freeze it. He bragged about it.

It was premeditated murder.

[Kelvin Mace]

37. I saw Andy's medical records

as did several others. His bills were even posted on DU (with his permission) for a bit.

I deal with PayPal daily basis and have dealt with them for six years. They will not shut down an account on a single complaint of $10. They have to have multiple complaints.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

45. OMG. You're just PERFECT, aint'cha?

Is there ANY carbon-based lifeform you don't hate when it's downtrodden?

[appleannie1]

14. A RW site has already called for Pelosi's execution

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/210847.php Those people with higher morals
than libs are truly one sick act.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/210847.php

[helderheid]

23. send that to the FBI

:scared:

[shireen]

26. had heard some of it, but not all the details.

how long was Andy's surgery delayed? Just wondering.

Shortly after Andy passed away, I think one of Andy's friends had posted that all the details would be revealed at a later time. But I never heard anything more.

I heard that some really creepy stuff went on, and I hope someone tells us about it. We need to understand the nature of those freaks.

RIP Andy Stephenson, you made a deep and abiding impact on many of us.

[Kelvin Mace]

29. They also tried to frame me for the

anti-Andy web site scamdy.com, registering it in my name. This attempt was tied to Bev, since the telephone number used, was a private number I had given to Bev, but no one else involved in this project.

After Andy's death, a reporter confronted several of the individuals involved in the site. One still questioned whether Andy was dead, the other admitted to it, but took no repsonsibility and expressed no regret.

These people are beyond contempt.

[VelmaD]

34. Every time I see one of these threads...

about Andy I just want to tear my hair out and scream and cry. :cry: I still miss him every day. And every time some idiot tries to minimize what Bev and the Freepers did to Andy...I just want to hit someone upside the head with a shovel. They stole my best friend from me. They made his last days more painful than they had to be. They hurt a good and decent man. I will not forget and I will certainly NEVER forgive.

[Kelvin Mace]

38. I know

periodically I have to retire from DU when it gets too intense.

[VelmaD]

39. It's really weird...

I want to talk about him...but I don't at the same time. It hurts to remember...but I don't want to forget him. I want to wake up and have it all have been a bad dream. I want to hear his voice one more time.

[Kelvin Mace]

40. I haven't had the heart to delete his emails

or phone messages.

[graywarrior]

47. Yeah, I have a PM or two from Any that I can't delete.

[greatauntoftriplets]

48. I still have Andy's emails as well....

If I delete them, I delete him.

:hi:

[Raine]

49. They're the scum of the Earth

I hope that there is a God because he will surely send them to roast in hellfire for eternity. :grr: