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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 10:51 PM
Original message
Confessions of a Worried American
I am certain that people such as Ann Coulter, Bill O’Leilley, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney would accuse me of being unpatriotic at best and treasonous at worst for the ideas that I express in these four confessions. But I feel that these things need to be said. And if right wing idiots think that saying them is unpatriotic or treasonous, I take that as a complement.


I believe that the deaths of Americans are no more tragic than the deaths of other people

The deaths of more than 3,000 American soldiers in the Iraq War doesn’t seem to have had much influence on George Bush’s determination to keep the war going until he “wins” it. He does, however, recognize the political effects of those deaths as an obstacle to maintaining support for the war, which is why he refuses to attend the funerals of our dead servicemen and women.

But what about the deaths of a hundred times that many Iraqis? Through U.S. bombing campaigns, the use of chemical weapons, ferocious U.S. attacks on populous cities, and the destruction and failure to reconstruct the Iraqi infrastructure, hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis have died. Given that George Bush claims that we invaded Iraq in order to bring democracy to Iraqis, shouldn’t we have made a much more vigorous effort to avoid killing them? You can bet that if several hundred thousand Americans had died in this war it would not be tolerated by the American people, and it would have ended a long time ago. So why should so many Iraqi deaths be tolerated? Because we’re fighting for democracy in Iraq?


I believe that Americans should not have immunity with respect to the International Criminal Court for war crimes or crimes against humanity

I noted in a recent post that George Bush has unsigned U.S. membership in the International Criminal Court (ICC) and has vigorously attempted to sabotage it. His main problem with the ICC is the possibility that Americans may have to answer to the Court for crimes against humanity or war crimes that they may have committed in the past or may commit in the future. That would undermine the “flexibility” and “independence” that the United States needs to defend its interests, says Bush.

Well, I see no reason why Americans who are suspected of war crimes or crimes against humanity shouldn’t have to answer for those charges just like anyone else. Does Bush think that Americans are so special that they’re not capable of committing those crimes? Or does he believe that it’s ok for Americans to commit those crimes because we have to protect our interests, while other countries don’t? How can we expect others to take international law seriously if we say that Americans are above the law just because they’re Americans?


As long as United States is under the control of “leaders” who have no respect for international law or generally accepted standards of morality I hope that it lacks the military strength to accomplish what those leaders want

Like almost all Americans, I want our military to be strong enough to protect us from our enemies. But the U.S. military is much stronger than that. It is not only strong enough to protect us from our enemies but strong enough to undertake imperial adventures at the whim of irresponsible leaders who may come to power from time to time, on occasion through defects in our election system.

As long as our country is in the hands of responsible leaders, the only problem with having a military that is much stronger than needed is that it is very expensive to maintain and takes money away from other needed government programs or prevents us from making progress in paying off our substantial national debt. But in the hands of irresponsible leaders an excessively strong military is a great danger, not only to the rest of the world but to Americans as well.

That is unfortunately the present status of our country. Our current leadership has taken us into a disastrous war under false pretenses, and the resulting deaths of hundreds of thousands of people doesn’t seem to bother it much. On the contrary, it is contemplating an escalation of that war, as well as additional wars.

In addition to the international crime of aggressive war, those leaders have suspended international rules for the protection of human rights and have consequently unlawfully and indefinitely detained, abused and tortured hundreds or thousands of people, without even charging them with an offense or giving them a chance to defend themselves. By so doing, they are a disgrace to our country, and they have ruined the international reputation of our country.

They have also substantially weakened our country militarily, by virtue of the fact that few or no other nations trust us anymore, so are unlikely to help us voluntarily. But that’s not what I’m worried about. Under the current circumstances I would much rather that our country be weakened militarily than that it have the power to continue to wreak death and destruction on the rest of the world. Unlike some right wing nuts, I get no satisfaction whatsoever from seeing my country’s leaders achieve their imperial ambitions at the expense of the rest of the world and future generations, or from seeing them “kick ass” as George W. Bush would put it, or “win” wars. Except for a very small number of Americans whose corporate interests are served by our leaders’ imperial ambitions, the rest of us American citizens will not benefit at all from that. George Bush and his cronies care no more for the average American than they care for the rest of the world, and they care no more for our own Constitution than they care for international law. Any law based system of justice is simply a barrier to their ambitions, and something to be overcome at any cost. Almost all of us are their victims.


I hope we do not “win” our war in Iraq – by George Bush’s definition of “win”

George Bush has repeatedly attempted to rile up the “patriotism” of Americans by speaking of our need to “win” the war in Iraq. But more of us should carefully consider what he means by “win”. It is obvious from the actions of the Bush administration over the past several years what George Bush means by “win” the Iraq war. The attention given to the oil industry in Iraq and the Bush administration’s vigorous attempts to control that industry speak volumes about what George Bush means by “win”. The insistence on building permanent military bases in Iraq shows that maintaining an indefinite military presence there for military geo-strategic reasons is a large part of the definition of “win”. And the billions of dollars worth of fraud committed by Bush/Cheney supporters who have been given no-bid contracts for reconstruction in Iraq also shed much light on what the Bush administration means by “win”.

Given that definition of “win’, I want no part of it.

We went to war in Iraq on false pretenses, and the Bush administration is keeping us their under false pretenses. The Iraqis do not want us in their country. Because they do not want us, we are a major source of the violence in Iraq (See page 3). Our presence in Iraq is serving to recruit thousands of new members for international terrorism.

Admittedly, there is no easy way out of Iraq. There is now a civil war raging there, and that civil war is likely to continue whether we stay or go. But a moral definition of “win” would mean giving due consideration to what the people of Iraq want and discontinuing our presence there as quickly as possible, while doing what we can to keep the violence to a minimum.


A few final words on voicing disagreement with one’s government

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and their followers are fond of accusing those who disagree with them of being unpatriotic or “hating America”. If we’re not with them, we’re “with the terrorists”, they tell us. And right wing nut case Ann Coulter has said “Even Islamic terrorists don't hate America like liberals do. They don't have the energy.”

In his efforts to manage public perception, George Bush has established “first amendment zones” to prevent those who disagree with him from being heard by others. He has even threatened to jail journalists who go beyond his conception of propriety in what they write, claiming that such writing can represent a threat to our national security. He is unconcerned that such actions and threats violate our First Amendment rights to free speech and freedom of the press. He is unconcerned that his warrantless spying program violates our Fourth Amendment rights to be free from reasonable searches and seizures. He is unconcerned that his abuse and torture of people he deems to be “enemy combatants” violates our Fifth Amendment right to due process, our Sixth Amendment right to face one’s accusers, and our Eight Amendment right to be protected against cruel and unusual punishment by our government. He is unconcerned that he brought our country into a needless and catastrophic war by lying to Congress and to the American people. He is unconcerned that his negligence resulted in the ruin through flooding of a great American city and the failure of his government to save the lives of those who were trapped in that city.

Well, I have news for George W. Bush and his followers and collaborators. We do not hate America. What we hate is what he and his collaborators are doing to America – and what they are doing to the world as well. We are not “with the terrorists”, as George Bush says. But even in countries who are our closest allies, a solid majority of citizens see George Bush’s himself as a threat to world peace. And they are correct in seeing it that way.

George Bush’s contempt for the laws of our country and our Constitution are destroying the foundations of our nation. His contempt for international laws is helping to destroy an international system that has been built up over the past several decades in a valiant effort to make the Earth a more decent place to live for most of its inhabitants. In the process, George Bush, Dick Cheney, and their collaborators have made the world a much more violent and dangerous place.

So, if the views that I expressed above are seen as unpatriotic or worse by those people, then so be it. George Bush is not the King, and he does not own our country, as Keith Olberman has so courageously pointed out. As Will Pitt said, the greatest sedition is silence. Those of us who express our concern about what George Bush and his collaborators are doing are just trying to make our country better or prevent it from getting worse.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. I so agree with this article. All those Iraqi deaths and the suffering
we have brought them haunts me. My heart cries everyday.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. I agree too and feel that anyone who does not share this view lacks humanity
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. k & r
kick!
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bluestateboomer Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. I couldn't agree more.
Our country has been badly used by leaders who have no respect for the concepts and values which our people have tried to live by. A true patriot would never be able to support the evil which has been perpetrated by this administration.

K&R
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
49. Welcome to DU!
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brer cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. Excellent post, TFC!
K&R
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kicking for a must read post :) (nt)
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Very nicely done Time for Change.
Nicely presented and very nicely sourced.

Bookmarking for future use.

You may also want to read the new article out today about
The Iraqi Council of Ministers is expected to approve, as early as today, a controversial new hydrocarbon law, heavily pushed by the US and UK governments, that will radically redraw the Iraqi oil industry and throw open the doors to the third-largest oil reserves in the world. It would allow the first large-scale operation of foreign oil companies in the country since the industry was nationalised in 1972.

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article2132467.ece


I expect that is what you meant by a win for GWB.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Yes, that's exactly what I meant by a Bush "win"
Big surprise, huh?

Gee, I wonder how much our corporate news media is going to cover this?
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. That's extraordinary
K&R

In agreement.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. HELLO AMERICA
Edited on Sat Jan-06-07 11:44 PM by bonito
CAN'T ANYONE HEAR ANYMORE? are we doomed letting greed have its day, eating our flesh along the way? Go ask Cindy, she's ten feet tall!
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is the kind of post that makes DU's home page as good as it is.
Along with key stories from the corporate media that begin to tell the truth about what has become of the executive branch of the U.S. government.

Proudly and gratefully recommended.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. That's very nice of you to say, Bleever -- thank you
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badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. K & R
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 12:02 AM by badgerpup
Thank you for saying this! :patriot:

One of the things that has made me sickest about this war is that the the appalling number of Iraqi deaths just sort of fly under the radar as incidental, either because they're 'over there' or because they're not 'real people' for whatever reason.

George Bush has always acted with impunity. He has never been held accountable for anything in his entire wretched life and he is taking this country down with him.
He is also setting a terrifying precedent for not only us, but for every other nation with similar capabilities on the planet.
If America is permitted to proceed with this kind of terrorism, why shouldn't other nations be allowed to do so? Who's to stop them? America certainly has lost the moral high ground on this issue.

The ISG has been repeatedly called an 'intervention that didn't work'. Intervention isn't the word, it was merely a lecture on why what he was doing was wrong, and Bush blew it off; as he had blown off everything else with which he doesn't agree or want to hear. There have never been any consequences for HIM for doing so.
There must be a REAL intervention, one with teeth in it.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. Yes, it is a terrifying precedent indeed
Several nations have already pointed to the U.S. example to justify their own violations of international law -- especially regarding abuse and torture of prisoners. When the most powerful nation in the world refuses to abide by international law and common standards of decency, that is a great blow to progress in trying to create an international order based on justice and the rule of law. Jimmy Carter talks about this is his book, "Our values" or something like that.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
12. Don't worry. Be happy.
Or take action anyway. But I am not sure you have a 'right view'

"I believe that the deaths of Americans are no more tragic than the deaths of other people"

America is not only my country, but, as the death of Gerald Ford made me realise, it is also, to a very large extent, my family. And family matters to me.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/9

I still do agree with the 2nd point though. Except, I think some Germans pointed out at Nuremburg, that 'war crimes' seemed to be only something that the vanquished are charged with.

As for the 3rd. Yes, I would like to see their nefarious schemes stopped, but 'hoping our military is not strong enough' is not a way I want to see them stopped.

I hope our enemies do not 'win' in Iraq. In fact, they do not seem to be 'our' enemies as much as they are the enemies of other Iraqis. I believe the majority of Iraqis, sunnis and shiites would rather live in peace, but that a minority on each side wants to be warlords or engage in some sort of ethnic cleansing. I would like to see that violent minority lose.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. I like what you wrote in the link you provided
It is true that almost everyone cares more about their own family members than they do about other people (and I am no exception to that), even if they may intellectually acknowledge that from an objective perspective the lives of their family members are not more valuable than other peoples' lives.

In some respects, "nationalism" is an extension of that principle. To the extent that nationalism helps us to care for our fellow countrymen and women it can be a good thing. But I fear that it is more often used to marginalize the lives of other peoples and thereby justify killing other people, as in war. That's why I wrote what I did in my OP. I don't believe that we disagree much on that point.

I did not say that I hope our enemies win in Iraq -- I said that I hope that we do not "win" by George Bush's definition of "win". And from reading your link, I think you would agree with that. As far as our "enemies" in Iraq are concnerned, we really don't have many "enemies" there. The proportion of fighters there who belong to al Qaeda is very small. The remainder of our so-called "enemies" there, who attack our troops, are our "enemy" simply because we are occupying their country and they want us out. If we left, they would no longer be our enemy, and even if they were they couldn't hurt us.



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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. I remember a Congressman got it media 'trouble'
when he said that we could trust Saddam when he said he had no WMD and that we could not trust Bush. Jim McDermott - I have this from Hardball, probably via Somerby:

"This is what he {Jim MicDermott] said while in Baghdad about the Iraqis: “They said they would allow us to go and look anywhere we wanted. ...I think you have to take the Iraqis on their face value.”
And then on President Bush in the same interview, “I think the president would mislead the American people.”
Is it appropriate for a member of Congress to go to Baghdad and say, in effect, “Trust the Iraqis, but don’t trust the president of the United States”?"

So, yeah, I agree with that. We still cannot trust our President to either a) be honest about his goals, or b) have goals which are admirable. But, at least on the surface, we do seem to agree on some things 1) an end to the Iraqi civil war, 2) a government that serves the Iraqi people. As far as permanent bases go. It does seem reasonable to me to take precautions to prevent either oil wealth or WMD out of the hands of jihadists or fundamentalist oppressive states.

I opposed the war from the beginning because of what I expected it to do to Iraq, but right now it is not our forces who are causing most Iraqi deaths. It is other Iraqis or Iranians or Iranian-symps. If it is Bush vs. them, then I will take the side of Bush. Even though it's only an intellectual exercise.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
13. Patriotism raised to powers of 10! Another great Time for Change article! nt
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. you need to go up one step to find the real culprits . . .
virtually every one of the critical issues facing our nation and the planet have at their root unlimited greed on the part of the corporations who have bought and paid for our govenmnent . . .

the willingness of corporations to do ANYTHING to increase profits is what's behind the war, global warming, environmental destruction, the healcare crisis, loss of America jobs, regressive taxation, gas prces, drug prices, you name it . . . whether their actions are immoral, unethical, or even illegal is of absolutely no consequence as long as the bucks keep rolling in . . .

the very same bucks, btw, that pay for the vast majority of incumbents' election campaigns . . .
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Yes, which is why
Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad needs to be revisited. Corporations need to be deprived of the legal fiction called "personhood."

This issue needs to gain traction. And, I can assure you, it will be one hell of a battle, because corporations will spend 900 gazillion dollars on a campaign to convince Americans that they'll suffer everything from acid reflux disease to terminal toenail fungus if they don't allow the continuation of corporate depredation.

The Womens International League for Peace and Freedom, among others, has been saying this for years. Time to put it on the table.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. interesting point about Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad . . .
if I recall correctly, it was not the judicial findings in the case that granted corporations the status of "persons," but some clerks notes in the margins of the decision . . . I'll see if I can dig up the article that explains this . . .
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Thank you. I knew that about the clerk...
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 12:34 PM by truth2power
but since I don't know the details, I didn't include that. I've been meaning to look into it. I wonder if that makes a difference as far as the decision is concerned.


edit> I found this:

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/santa_clara_vs_southern_pacific.html

SANTA CLARA COUNTY v. SOUTHERN PACIFIC RAILROAD COMPANY
118 U.S. 394
Error to the Circuit Court of the United States for the District of California


Print-friendly Page Filed May 10, 1886.
Argued January 26-29, 1886


Editor's notes: There has been much misunderstanding about this Court decision. Despite the issue being raised in arguments, the Justices offered no written opinion on the question of whether corporations should be considered "persons" and enjoy the protections of the 14th Amendment. The Court reporter's notes, however, quoted Chief Justice Waite declaring that, "We all are of the opinion" that the 14th Amendement applies to corporations.
Many people (rightfully) are outraged that a Court reporter could turn the Bill of Rights and 14th Amendment on their heads, which effectively is what occured once Santa Clara was cited as precedent in subsequent cases. However, the fact that the Justices never issued an opinion on "corporate personhood" lost its legal significance once they cited the case.

And this link to the corporate personhood index:

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/index.html
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. Yes, the blame goes to our government and corporations working together
to screw the American people.

It's called Fascism. And if the American people are perceptive enough they'll recognize and work to put a stop to it.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Government & corporations working together reminds me
of the book I am reading by Senator Byron Dorgan -
Take This Job and Ship It: How Corporate Greed and Brain-Dead Politics Are Selling Out America

http://www.amazon.com/Take-This-Job-Ship-Brain-Dead/dp/031235522X/sr=8-1/qid=1168219001/ref=sr_1_1/102-8825233-6536149?ie=UTF8&s=books





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ktlyon Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. very nice all things I agree with
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. We could make so much more progress
if we could pry corporate media from the RW program.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. Yes -- we need to take back our news media!
We need to put an end to monopolistic practices that have allowed our corporate media to obtain the power that they have. Here are some thoughts I have had on that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2038036
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
54. Speaking of which....
I wish we at DU could afford to take out a full page ad in the New York Times for your wonderful blog entry. This is exactly what the people of the United States need to understand. The 24/7 propaganda assault by the White House and their right-wing media consorts has reduced our country to "axis of evil" status where we're no better than the rogue States our government rails against. As Hunter Thompson wrote, "we're living in a Kingdom of Fear" and that carefully concocted kingdom has skewed our thinking in a most horrible and dangerous fashion.
People need to hear a different voice and I believe one of those voices should be yours. :applause:
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Voltaire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
18. Beautifully and Courageously Stated!!!
I salute you on a masterful piece!

Voltaire
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
19. Bush: "we need change in Iraq" change to what? - Bush: dunno, replace the generals??
GOP responds; "we only have one last chance"
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seesdifferent Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. Bush's basic lie about 9/11 continues to be used to justify killing
....that "they hate our freedom", exploiting racist/religious bigotry.
http://seesdifferent.wordpress.com/2007/01/07/the-basic-bush-lie-911-was-because-they-hate-our-freedom/
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Excellent article
"They don't hate us when we're over here, they hate us when we're over there".

Everything Bush does is based on lies.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #26
50. Welcome to DU!
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ArmchairMeme Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. Great opinion piece
I also will add my opinion and can see the problems with the corporate involvement in all this mess certainly their purchase of "our" government and the involvement of the defense industry in "decision making by the bottom line". We the people have very little if any voice in the direction of our government or this administration. The Cheney/Bush figureheads appear to be directed by corporate greed with no consideration for people either in this country or any other country or any laws either in this country or abroad. It makes for a very bleak future for our children and grandchildren.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. Bleak future indeed, if we allow them to get away with it
"no consideration for people either in this country or any other country or any laws either in this country or abroad".

Absolutely true. I think that we will be setting a bad precedent if we don't impeach and remove them from office.
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. Wonderfully Written
I always find myself sad when I read an opinion that I agree with so strongly. It has taken me a long time to figure out why. Like most of you I grieve for what has happened to our country and in my own little way I am fighting to take it back. My Epiphany is that I keep thinking all Americans should feel the way we do and there should never have been a reason for having to express the opinions we do or worry about the constitution, but yet we do. The America of today is not the America where I was raised. I thought we had learned from Nam and Watergate but I guess I was pretty naive. In my wildest dreams I never believed there would be a segment of the population so willing to give up our Bill of Right and believe a dry drunk enough to take our country to ruin-financially, environmentally, and even to forget our fellow man. What's most absurd is that we can be called un American for insisting our basic American values be upheld.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. Thank you very much -- I feel the same way
Progress is usually not a straight line, but a wobbly one, with many detours. There have always been bad and greedy and dishonest people amongst us, and there will continue to be for a long time.

I think that too many of the American people have gotten too lazy to even take to time to follow what's going on (though much of the blame for that has to go to our corporate news media). But maybe the recent elections were a turning point. The majority of Americans have had enough of Bush and enough of his Republican followers in Congress. Maybe we're ready to turn a corner.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
29. Kick n/t
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
33. Thank you, Time for Change!
Regarding your first point, and applying it beyond Iraq:

It is truly sickening to read pleas against using nukes in Iran -- ONLY because of the harm it could cause Americans, or others we selectively wish to protect.

Why not stop grossly inhumane acts INSTEAD because of the harm they could cause ANY other human beings (to say nothing of the planet and its other inhabitants)

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. I'm with you on that nick
Maybe some people think it would seem "un-American" to show concern for the people of other nations. But it seems to me that our Democratic Presidents and nominees haven't had a problem doing that.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
34. A great post.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
36. We have to break peoples' identification of our ruling elite with "America"
Every time a wingnut writes about how libruls hate "America" and are always saying that "America" is always in the wrong whatever we do, I'd recommend NOT saying "We don't hate America" (denial just reinforces the meme we are trying to get rid of), but attacking the root assumption instead. Just say "George Bush is not America. The neocons are not America. The corporate ruling elite is not America. "America" is the rest of us poor saps who just live here, and we do not approve!"

Also keep in mind that imperialism is not just an American thing, but a 5000 year old form of social organization that is almost universal wherever production technology enables surpluses of food, with the single known exception of the Haudenosaunee confederation. We have to end it befor it ends us (or at the very least busts us back to hunter-gatherer technology with massive depopulation). This task is roughly equivalent to trying to turn a battleship around with an outboard motor, but we must nonetheless try anyway.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. That's true -- imperialism is quite old
But there has been substantial movement in the 20th Century to end it. Unfortunately, our current rulers are trying very hard to reverse all the progress that was made. And you're right -- that will be an extremely difficult task.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
39. Recommended and ....



...


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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Yes, Bush and Cheney violated our national security a hundred times
Here's to removing them from office :toast:
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
44. Agreed. Truth is beautiful. nt
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IWantAChange Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
45. Kudos Time for Change - wonderfully written missive that should be read by all Repugs.
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
46. I feel the same way, that Iraqi deaths are as sorrowful as American deaths
We are responsible for the well-being of our own soldiers, but we are also responsible for this illegal, and immoral war.
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Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
47. TRuly an Excellent Article. The lift can grow much longer once you
begin to add in all the things he's allowed under his watch that are more subtle slaps against the American People.

As someone who can speak from personal experience, it is impossible for a professional to get health insurance, let alone affordably in America if they have a mark on their health record at all. Or that once you excise stock market - investment income and the record profits Halliburton and other companies are getting that our national economy is tepid to be kind, the middle class is suffering and bleeding members into the poor and destitute from this 'marvelous' economy. This strange idea of 'Alternate Minimum Tax' is astounding and horrific to behold, striking the middle class squarely between their wallets as well while the richest pay paltry taxes by comparison after all the new loopholes are excised.

The list is long and sad, the most laughable irony is that it is in the name of being a 'good Christian! man'. If one were to compare George W Bush to Jesus' Message he would get it about as well as he got business practices in life... not at all. Though that also describes my belief of an ideal state for the white house in relationship to both he and his VP; not at all related, connected or associated!
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
48. Thanks...
Thanks for saying straight out what many are reluctant or even afraid to say.

To paraphrase Robert Jay Lifton, we claim to be spreading the kingdom of heaven, but we are using the methods of hell. Or, as the Christian Testament said, "What does it profit a man if he gain the whole world but suffer the loss of his soul."

I truly don't think it began with Bush, but it can stop with him... if we choose to make it stop.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
51. Dissent is patriotic! You pay homage to our Constitution with this piece
The United States can't be a great country if the rest of the world - and many of its own citizens - are horrified by our behavior. We must return to the bases on which our country was founded.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
52. Bravo. Well said.
And because it deserves wider publication, I'm wondering if I might attempt to try to work it down to LTTE size in hopes of getting in printed in my local Delaware News Journal. I see you're from Silver Springs, MD, have you submitted it there?

Again. Bravo! And the imbedded ilnks are excellent. I'm forwarding your original, links included, to many via my email.

PJ



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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Thank you -- feel free to send it anywhere
That's great to know that this will get wider publication.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
55. I'm obviously not an expert on geopolitics, just an ordinary bloke
who tries to understand what's going on in the world. But, though I've seen no mention on it here, there seems to have been an astonishing development, threatening Armageddon in a more serious manner than any alternative I can think of.

The supply of oil to Germany and other European countries has been cut off by the Russians - it is to be hoped, very temporarily - in response to a retaliatory tax rise on the Russian oil flowing through the pipelines transiting Bylorussia to neighbouring countries and presumably beyond. I hope the Russians don't precipitate international chaos and maybe war, by intransigence in the matter. The retaliation on the part of the Bylorussians was in response to an oil price-hike recently demanded from them by Russia.

Even without the support of the Chinese, which could be a possibility I suppose, how do superpowers today go to war with each other? I would imagine this is the closest thing to the initiation of a war already, though Europe would presumably be classified as no more than a power bloc.

The impression I have of Putin is that he has more common sense than Blair or Bush, and wouldn't carry through with his counter-retaliation, in the knowledge that it has always been customary for "the might with right" to turn the screw gently over a period of time, since in geopolitics, it makes sense to make smaller waves than to go for the jugular of a still powerful "foes", right away. Inviting the initiation of mutual destruction, as developments might leads to, even risking it, doesn't seem at all sensible.

On the other hand, I fear for your people, since the neocon hawks might press their case for the war-without-end in Iraq. That, too, in terms of geopolitics - always viewed under a short-terms perspective by the hawks - would give great comfort to our rivals/foes.

I hope I'm laughably mistaken about the whole business. It's weird though. It's been on the TV news, yet isn't reported on the Internet on either the Guardian or the Google site
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
56. The Bush Junta
and its media shills are trying to turn the U.S.A. into everything we fought against in WW II and the Cold War. Fortunately, history tells us that totalitarians don't retain power for long. The road to empire is paved with failed republics. If the new Congress doesn't land a sucker punch on tyranny's jaw we're headed to history's dust bin.
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QueenOfCalifornia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
57. 100% Corrrect
Of course you are correct...

I am in lockstep with you... See the movie I posted on You Tube, here on the DU:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x12159
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