MY FRONT PAGE TODAY: Utahns break from Bush on Iraq - Reddest state no longer behind war's handling

[helderheid]

Utahns break from Bush on Iraq

Reddest state no longer behind war's handling, split on 'surge'

President Bush has lost majority support on Iraq from residents of the reddest state in the nation.

A Salt Lake Tribune poll conducted last week shows Utah's support for Bush's handling of the war in Iraq has taken a substantial plunge in the past few months. Just 41 percent of Utahns say they support Bush on Iraq - marking the first time a Tribune poll has found fewer than half of Utahns in the president's war camp.

Meanwhile, the poll shows Utahns about evenly split on whether to send more troops to Iraq. About 44 percent of Utahns back a "surge" - an option Bush reportedly is considering, and which has much lower nationwide support.

Less than six months ago, with Bush and two senior members of his Cabinet in town to shore up support in the state that gave him his largest margin of victory in two elections, 54 percent of Utahns supported him on Iraq, according to a Tribune poll conducted in August. That rate exceeded national numbers collected at the same time by about 20 percent.

Since then, the president has publicly acknowledged increased violence in Iraq - a war even he will no longer say the U.S. is winning. A high-profile panel has roundly criticized his approach to the war, as have a number of retired generals. His defense secretary - the architect of much of America's policy in Iraq - stepped down under heavy criticism. And the tally of U.S. troop deaths
has continued to grow.

MORE >>>

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_4966131

FINALLY my state is waking up!

[rox63]

1. WOW!

K&R for Utah waking up! :kick:

[NNN0LHI]

2. Not quite. From the article

>>>Utahns continue to support Bush personally, with 56 percent rating the president's performance in the White House as "excellent" or "good" in the Tribune poll, which has a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points, according to Mason-Dixon Polling & Research Inc.<<<

[helderheid]

3. Regardless - this is a BIG DEAL here.

[NNN0LHI]

7. No matter how you cut it every other person in Utah is crazy as a shithouse rat

I wish it weren't that way.

Don

[helderheid]

8. The culture is set up for the flock to follow their leader and the

LDS Church here loves *. Unfortunate but true. There are some damn fine LDS members who are in the Democratic party here though, including some in the Party leadership.

[helderheid]

31. THANK YOU!

[leesa]

4. The title sounds like you all got to gether down at the dinette to decide.

Excellent news. My God, this awakening has taken a long time. What marketing genius knew America would fall so deeply in love with this underachieving nitwit.

Marshall McClune would have been thrilled/appalled by this process.

[Toots]

5. Even a blind squirrel will find a nut sometimes

[helderheid]

6. Don't piss in my cereal :D

:woohoo:

[The Wielding Truth]

9. 'Bout time. Where were they when * started lying. Doesn't seem like

there is any independent thought involved in this lack of support now.

It is a sheep turn at this point. At least they aren't foolish enough to ride the boat over the falls.

Hurray for them, that they will jump ship in time to survive. If they extend there stand to deter the Republican mantra to win a civil war with outside physical force, maybe this will be a noble change, and not just a popular whim.

Hope so, helderheid. At least they feel the pull that * is not popular. Sorry, at this point I see it as little more than that.

On a positive note, did you know that the White Rose Society also gives roses to those who stand strong for democracy and freedom. Great minds think alike. Always proud of you, helderheid.

[helderheid]

10. you're very sweet!

:hug:

[peacetalksforall]

11. Makes we want to know the ratio of Mormons. It says to me that

Mormons are well off if there is a relationship between the poll resutts and the ties to Mormons. It says ??? none are affected by George cheating the VA - none must object to the deals with health insurance executive office decisions in partnership with the pharms and any affect on their elders - none object to the thefts, killing, and conniving deals of this administration - and they like their children to be put in bizarre, un-warlike, unprotected danger and don't mind the loss of limbs, organs, immune systems, or menatal health of their kids? And they must just love cheating and disastrous game-playing by their representatives in the House and Senate - lobbyists are OK with them? The motives of war in the mind of the corporations who run us and this war is OK with them? From monetary reasons to every form of breaking the Ten Commandments - they love him?

They allow logic to get this twisted?

[helderheid]

12. I think their sons and daughters coming home missing limbs and those

not coming home at all has finally turned the tide.

[jkshaw]

14. Neighbor helderheid ...

... as an exiled Democrat from the East,I've lived with my husband and (eventually) family in this godforsaken state for over forty years, wept all the way across the desert, thought I'd die here, and probably will by now, but what a relief that some few Utahns have awakened enough to turn the polls slightly to the center.

When we came here to USU Utah had a Democratic governor, followed by another Democratic governor. We had a wonderful Democratic congressman up here, Gunn McKay. Then, horrors of horrors, we were afflicted with Hansen. And Hatch. And Bennett the younger.

I don't know what happened to make almost everyone here so deaf, dumb, and blind to Bush's deplorable incompetence, his lies, his hypocrisy, to his rush into a criminal invasion of Iraq. Or, rather, I should say that I don't know what made the Mormon church so thoroughly Republican so that their membership -- as you say so used to following their leaders -- would of course follow their leaders.

Who fed the church leadership the line that the Republicans were the party of "values." I was under the impression when we came out here that Mormons were an intelligent lot. How could they swallow that codswallop?

We're up here on the Idaho border of Cache Valley. Though I usually check sltrib.com occasionally, we don't get the Salt Lake papers. So thanks for bringing that encouraging Tribune news to us this morning.

The fact that 56% of Utahns still love Bush is enough to put us off our Sunday dinner, but the sentiment against the surge is at least something, isn't it?

The picture of Bush decorating that Tribune story is gold, is diamonds! Good for the Tribune person responsible for that one!

[helderheid]

15. I thought the same thing about the picture they decided to use!

I was born in Logan, by the way. :)

As far as the church and why they support the Republicans, it is my opinion that ever since the Church became a big business, it decided to support the party of big business. It is an incredibly big business these days. How unfortunate what greed does to some.

[peacetalksforall]

16. Do you know if there are any factories or businesses there that

contribute or exist for the business of war? What are Hatche's favorite earmarks - do they benefit businesses or people groups?

[helderheid]

17. very good questions that I don't have answers to. I'll need to look into it!

[pacalo]

18. Just look at that petulant expression on his face!

[helderheid]

19. oy, what a great group of pictures! Petulant is right!

[Radical Activist]

27. I think it started with anti-communism.

Mormons were strongly anti-communist and so were the Republicans. Benson had an influence there. After that, Mormons bought into the culture war "family values" rhetoric. Democrats aren't preaching the social gospel anymore so no one makes the connection between religious values and liberal policies.

[Radical Activist]

26. Mormons buy into the culture war and "family values" crap.

Its sad that more don't see it for the hypocritical act that it is. Bush violates almost every value the Mormon church teaches.

[helderheid]

28. there are a few who "get it"

[helderheid]

13. This says to me that ALL of America is ready for an Anti-War Candidate

[Cha]

20. And just what woke

Utahans(orrin hatch zone) UP?! Did some reality sink in through the corporatemedia who did more than their share to start this whole Bombs On Iraq?

[helderheid]

21. It's amazing. I finally feel like some sanity leaked into this bubble!

[helderheid]

22. THANK YOU for putting this on the greatest!

:yourock:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

23. Congrats on your state taking a step in the right direction

I know how remarkable it feels to discover those who surround you actually do have a few working brain cells left.

[helderheid]

24. I'd lost all hope

[mzmolly]

25. This is amazing news for the troops, and for the Country. Democrats are now in

a fantastic position to refuse funding the "surge."

:toast:

[Octafish]

29. You can't fool all the people, all the time.

And the ones you can, Rove has been focusing on.

Great news, yours, helderheid. Thank you!

Spin your way out of this,



little turd from Crawford.

[helderheid]

30. IT'S OVER!!

[Octafish]

33. Bush Sr CIA Ties Revealed

mod mom and DavidZephyr told me about some documents that seem to show Poppy was CIA in the 1950s and 1960s.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3069485&mesg_id=3069485

Original article with links to documents:

http://realnews.org/rn/content/zapata.html

EDIT: "Revealed" not "Released"

[puebloknot]

32. And they say it's impossible to get Republican support...

...for impeachment.

Yes, finally there are awakenings happening. Many Republicans may just prefer to throw in with the new "moral majority" rather than go down with a rat-infested ship.

Good news!