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DEMS MUST STOP ATTACK! Nuclear bunker buster dropped on Iran would kill 100,000's.

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:46 AM
Original message
DEMS MUST STOP ATTACK! Nuclear bunker buster dropped on Iran would kill 100,000's.
This animation from Union of Concerned Scientists animation depicts what would happen to Iran, Pakistan, India with a nuclear bunker buster weapon with a one megaton yield - which could kill 3 million people within two weaks. The funding for this weapon was cut in 2005 defense appropriations.

However, the United States still has a B61-11 nuclear 'bunker buster' in its arsenal which has a 400 kiloton yield, which could still cause 100,000's of deaths and spread radiation to other countries.

Nuclear Bunker Buster Animation



Earth-Penetrating Weapons

<snip>

For example, exploding a 10-kiloton nuclear weapon at a depth of one meter would increase the effective yield by a factor of 20, resulting in underground damage equivalent to that of a 200-kiloton weapon exploded at the surface of the ground. But increasing the penetration depth to five meters would only increase the effective yield by an additional 60%, to 320 kilotons.

Nevertheless, even nuclear weapons have limited effectiveness at destroying the deepest or widely separated underground bunkers. For example, an earth penetrating weapon using the 1.2 megaton B83 warhead—the highest yield weapon in the U.S. nuclear stockpile—could crush underground bunkers to a depth of about 1000 feet. Deeper bunkers can be constructed with modern tunneling equipment, and are essentially invulnerable to nuclear attack.

<snip>

For example, the new nuclear earth penetrator that the United States plans to research would use a 1.2-megaton weapon. According to a simulation using software developed for the Pentagon, if one of these weapons were used against the underground nuclear facility in Esfahan, Iran, 3 million people would be killed by radiation within 2 weeks of the explosion, and 35 million people in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India would be exposed to increased levels of cancer-causing radiation.


Note to Dems:

YOU ARE BEING LIED TO AND MANIPULATED SO THAT YOU WILL GO ALONG WITH KILLING 100,000's OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT IS A DECADE AWAY FROM HAVING A NUCLEAR BOMB.

THIS ACTION IS SOLELY FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOUR WEALTHY DEFENSE-INDUSTRY-FRIENDS' PROFITS.

YOU ARE SIGNING THE DEATH WARRANTS OF AMERICANS AND ISRAELIS TOO AS YOU CONTINUE TO SPEW YOUR HEATED RHETORIC ABOUT IRAN - AN ATTACK WILL BE MET WITH RETRIBUTION.

THE BLOOD WILL BE ALL OVER YOU.



Israeli General says to depend on Hillary or dems to help with attack on Iran.


Democrats: Nuclear Iran unacceptable

Iran with nuclear weapons is unacceptable, new House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told The Jerusalem Post hours after entering the party leadership position.

The Maryland Democrat said the view is shared by his party, rejecting assertions that the Democrats would be weaker than the Republicans on Iran.

He also said that the use of force against Teheran remained an option.
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Monkeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Remember here there can and will be fall out
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. K & R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
3. This is why Steny Hoyer was put in place by the DLC types...
They knew this was coming and they want bipartisan support for it.

When the fight got ugly, I suspected it was for high stakes.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. National Dems and consultants told candidates not to talk about pulling troops out of Iraq
From a post by madfloridian...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3044676#3045251

I've suspected as much when the Dem power structure was pushing so hard for Tammy Duckworth to beat Christine Cegelis in the Dem primaries -- Cegelis was very, very loud and clear and her anti-war positions.



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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. What the hell are you blathering about? Hoyer was expected to get that spot.
And Pelosi only gave Murtha a shot out of kindness.

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yeah. It was all a nice, gentlemanly contest...The sliming of Murtha...
is just my fevered imagination.
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Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. Didn't we use these in Afghanistan?
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Monkeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. We used Bunker Busters but they had no nuke heads
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Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Okay thanks!
I was getting confused. I thought they all did.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. the 4400 pound GBU 28
& the Tomhawk penatrator varient, click on my journal.
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Yep...
And a causal relationship between their use and the tsunami is plausable...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. Screeching, hysterical claptrap. But thank you for your concern.
It's good to know how many of us can be manipulated by deliberate scare headlines. BOO!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. The Dems were weak/ill-informed enough to fall for IWR.
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 11:58 AM by IndyOp
Posturing as 'strong on defense' leads to stupid actions. It has over and over and over in past.

:(
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Little Wing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. bwahahah!
:thumbsup:
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. What, exactly,.are you taking exception to in the OP?
It's not at all clear.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
8. Scott Ritter says they are being lied to by AIPAC.
http://www.forward.com/articles/book-israel-lobby-pushing-iran-war/


“The Bush administration, with the able help of the Israeli government and the pro-Israel Lobby, has succeeded,” Ritter writes, “in exploiting the ignorance of the American people about nuclear technology and nuclear weapons so as to engender enough fear that the American public has more or less been pre-programmed to accept the notion of the need to militarily confront a nuclear armed Iran.”

My suggestion: Stop AIPAC
www.stopAIPAC.org
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Bingo
Stop Joe.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Scott Ritter and Sy Hersch courtesy DemocracyNow...
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Broadslidin Donating Member (949 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. Imperial America will be providing the Tactical Nuclear Weapons to Israel......
for the pre-emptive attack upon Iran.

And being quite aware of Imperial America's long history of
predatory foreign self interest,
when recoverable crude oil no longer exists in the Middle East,
Fort Israel in the end will realize
how dangerous a compact with the U.S. Government can be..!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Jewish Voice for Peace supports them - "Stop AIPAC" - that is good.
Ritter is a national treasure. I saw him speak before the Iraq war and was so impressed by his detailed knowledge and overall understanding.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Scott Ritter said we were going to attack Iran MONTHS ago.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. Plus, you think we've got Global Warming now?
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 12:04 PM by 48percenter
Think of what a WORLD environmental disaster this would be, in addition to the humanitarian one.
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Monkeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I think you are very right
Ground Water openings in the blast will have leakage. Fallout could kill up to 4000 miles. They used busters but not nuke tipped. There where places leakage and other problems have been shown
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. They never talk about Nuclear Fallout
Having grown up in the 50s with underground bomb shelters, I will never forget all those pieces on TV showing the effects of a nuclear bomb. It isn't just the ground zero detonation devastation. I can remember seeing those circles of what the effects of the fallout would be for hundreds of miles away. Humans and the environment would feel the effects for years to come.

Maybe it is time to get out those old film clips and start showing them again.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Of course not, the NUKES they use now are environmentally friendly
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
19. k & r (NT)
NT
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. you realize, i take it, that Jerusalem and Tel Aviv are closer to Esfahan
than Kabul, Karachi or locations in India. Or that Kuwait City is even closer?

If someone bombs Iran (and I'm certainly not saying that couldn't happen), it will be with conventional weapons not nukes and suggestions to the contrary are simply hysteria in action.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
24. Here's something we can do. Our leaders - bit of proof and
honesty ...

We were told in the summer of 2005 by OUR OWN NSC that Iran was ten years away from having a nuclear bomb. Later, some people said that if they were very fortunate in buying the right supplies, they could move up that estimate by a couple of years. So, we're talking 7 or 8 years.

Now our lying, thieving, killing leaders are telling us that this drastic action is necessary because Iran is two years away.

WE MUST DEMAND THAT OUR LEADERS CLEAR THIS UP - WE NEED AN INVESTIGATION STARTING TUESDAY/WEDNESDAY AT THE LATEST. CAN WE/THEY DO IT?

What is the truth? Let's get the liars up there in front of the camera and tell us exactly what's going on.

We always talk about and know so much before something disastrous like this and our leaders don't make any waves. We need WAVES. We need TRUTH.

Does anyone know scientists or experts that would contribute their statements and names to a neatly compiled list that could be submitted to our leaders?
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. Does EVERYONE know HOW HARD the AEI is pushing
to make the bombing of Iran happen? AEI - doer and shaker arm of PNAC - they are the ones who get the deed done for PNAC.
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bidiboom Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
27. Related thread link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3061496


Israeli general says to depend on Hillary or dems to help with attack on Iran.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3346275,00.ht...
What to do with Iran?

We must coordinate independent strike with US, prepare for Iranian response

Oded Tira (Brigadier General (Res.) Oded Tira is the former IDF chief artillery officer)


Israel is facing one of the most critical periods in its history in security and strategic terms. The stock market is booming, yet this isn't the first time where we encounter irrational euphoria. At the same time, by acting soberly and with determination we'll be able to handle the challenge we're facing. In order to undertake a comprehensive security assessment we must take the situation in the various theaters into account.


In Lebanon , Security Council Resolution 1701 is not being implemented. Hizbullah continues to operate south of the Litani, restores the "nature reserves" that were damaged in the war, and establishes new "nature reserves." A "nature reserve" is a compound of hidden fortifications within a wadi that dominates access roads to the "reserve" and contains bunkers, arms and supplies warehouses, residences, and firing positions, including some used to launch Katyusha rockets. Such reserve is a huge compound that allows forces to be there for a long time.

President Bush lacks the political power to attack Iran. As an American strike in Iran is essential for our existence, we must help him pave the way by lobbying the Democratic Party (which is conducting itself foolishly) and US newspaper editors. We need to do this in order to turn the Iranian issue to a bipartisan one and unrelated to the Iraq failure.


We must turn to Hillary Clinton and other potential presidential candidates in the Democratic Party so that they publicly support immediate action by Bush against Iran. We should also approach European countries so that they support American actions in Iran, so that Bush will not be isolated in the international arena again.

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. Read the chain of comments that follows the General's Op-ed
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3346275,00.html
Here's a sample:

56. Iran's house of cards


needs to collapse from within, after hard and massive coalition air strike. That strike must wipe out
Iran infrastructure completely, not only nuclear facilities... Several oppressed minorities within Iran will create their own separate states, which will lead to a total disintegration of Iran. Iran's oil reserves already located not in Persian region...Iraqi model will be created from within inside Iran. Later on some coalition forces with UN will need to secure/inspect vital regions. Iran must be broken apart into
several mini states, to prevent any potential future threat to world piece. Iranian Pandora Box must be
opened to save the word piece. Not much time left.


Mikle White , Canada (12.31.06)

Total disintegation . . . broken part into several mini states . . Sounds kinda like what we did in Iraq, doesn't it?



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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
31. WE MUST STOP THIS WAR BEFORE IT STARTS!
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
33. The Drums keep gettting louder and louder...
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
34. Just a suggestion call your Representatives and Senators
and let's keep on them.
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