What ideals would you kill for?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

Poll question: What ideals would you kill for?

Bertrand Russell raised an interesting question. "People are fond of saying they will die for their country. The question should be, will you kill for your country?"

I can think of no "ideal" that I would kill for.

Throughout history, wars have almost always been fought for "defense". At least that's what the warmakers always claim.

They usually cite some sort of "defense" as a rationalization. They are always "defending" freedom, territorial integrity, vital national interests, etc, etc, etc.

So, idealists, what ideals are you will to kill for?

Edited for clarity:

I should have said, Please leave out "self-defense" or assume that there is an immediate attack on anything being made.

I'm talking ideals.

[annabanana]

1. My children's lives. .

(but then , that's not an "ideal".

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Not sure I could kill anyone intentionally.

I could see self defense getting out of control, but that isn't murder exactly as the intent to kill is missing. OTOH, I could fight if there was a threat to the liberties and freedoms guaranteed to us all in the Constitution, especially if the threat was generated internally.

[Coyote_Bandit]

3. Better question might be

What would you live for?

IMHO, living for something takes considerably more committment over a much longer period of time and usually impacts far more people.

[melnjones]

4. If you can't think of an ideal you would kill for,

shouldn't you have an option in the poll for "none?"

[Jack_DeLeon]

I voted freedom but by that I mean...

for myself, my friends, and my family.

Everyone else, do it yourselves.

[porphyrian]

5. Is survival an ideal?

I don't think I would ever kill another person unless it involved my own survival or an immediate threat to friends and family. And, since I've been lucky enough to never be in one of those situations to date, I have no idea how I would actually react.

[MazeRat7]

16. exactly what I was going to say... I'll second that -nt

[rebel with a cause]

6. In war, as in life, I can only think of one reason.

To stop someone from needlessly killing or raping someone else. And even here it sounds a little odd to kill someone to keep them from killing, but that is my reason in life. And in war it would be to stop a genocide, or the killing of many.

[rebel with a cause]

7. Note I said to stop, not revenge for.

[CJCRANE]

8. An end to killing.

Not really, I don't know to be honest. Since WWII I'm not sure if there's been anything worth dying for.

[mike_c]

9. to those who answered "Freedom" or anything else, for that matter...

...who would you kill for freedom?

I'm drawing a distinction between defending your own freedom from someone trying to enslave you, and killing for a principle as I understand the OP's question.

All wars-- killing for some national principle or other-- are started by someone and the aggressor is seeking to kill others for an ideal or a principle, whether it is to impose their form of government or simply to steal another's resources. Most would defend themselves if attacked, for whatever reason, but what would you deliberately KILL for? What principle is worth being the aggressor?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Well said and well read.

I tried to make the poll clear but, apparently, failed to do so.

[rebel with a cause]

17. none was not available

so perhaps I went to an action instead of an ideal. I agree with you that there is no ideal I would kill for, unless not believing in genocide is an ideal. :shrug:

[hiaasenrocks]

10. I would kill someone in defense of myself or others

in situations in which there was an imminent threat that I or others might be killed.

And I would make no apologies for killing an agressor in self-defense or the defense of other innocent victims.

[EstimatedProphet]

11. The end of freeper-style conservatism

You know, bullying and racism rolled into nationalist fascism.

I say this because I still think there could soon come a time when freepers are goaded into taking to the streets by their heroes Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, etc. If that does happen I doubt they'll just march in protest. They'll want to track down all the liberals and kill them. I have no intention of letting that happen.

[Fovea]

14. AGREED

really. You have said it quite well.

Take up riding a bicycle for transportation, get real close to the culture war. Last year a cyclist out west shot and killed an SUV driver who ran them off the road, and then came back for a second try.

I haven't heard how that case ended up. But the conflict between Gore supporting cyclists, and Bush supporting SUV drivers is getting hotter and hotter. For a long time the culture war was mostly a cold war. It seems to me to be nearing a flash point.

[rebel with a cause]

19. That would be ............

self defense. At least in my opinion.

[EstimatedProphet]

20. You're right. In a way it would.

[Cleita]

12. We don't have a right to kill except in self-defense

and that is only if it's a fair fight, that our attacker is coming for us with weapons. I don't think even in war that we have a right to execute an unarmed opposition that can't fight back. This is why the torture and deaths in prison camps are so wrong.

In this moral dilemma I can't accept collateral damage except in situations where civilians are caught in military targets. If there are children and elderly involved there, like human shields, then no way, we have to find another way.

I think bombing is wrong unless it's of military installations. Even when the Japanese attacked us in Pearl Harbor, they attacked military installations. When we bombed Hiroshima, we bombed a city full of civilians, women, children and elderly who had no hand in that war anymore than the Iraqi civilians have in our aggression toward them. We did the same in Dresden, Germany in WWII.

On a civilian level I have no problem hurting or killing someone who is trying to hurt or kill me. But never do we have a right to kill people who are unarmed, shackled, or too old or too young to defend themselves.

Getting to dying for your country, when you sign up for a "justified war" you know you may die and you will go willingly to defend those back home. However, if I were an unfortunate G. I. slave, in Bush's personal war, I would do very little to fight other than what I needed to do to defend myself and my fellow slaves.

[nam78_two]

13. Oh oops -I chose environment before I saw the "kill for" part

I thought you were asking what is the most important ideal for each person.. Can't think of any ideal I would kill for.

[scarletwoman]

18. Gandhi: "There are a thousand causes for which I am prepared to die, but there is no cause for which

I am prepared to kill."

That pretty much sums it up for me. I'm not Gandhi, however -- I would probably kill (if I had the means) in defense of loved ones. And I have no doubt I'd fight back vigorously against an immediate threat, it would be sheer survival instinct if nothing else. (But certainly not out of "principle" -- just lizard brain self-preservation!)

Just outright killing for "principle"? Absolutely NO WAY! What possible kind of principle could there be that required the murder of my fellow human beings to uphold? No "principle" worthy of the name in my book.

sw

[Taverner]

21. Freedom FROM religion eom

[marions ghost]

22. there is no ideal

that I would kill for.

Guess I wouldn't make good soldier material.

[BoneDaddy]

23. No ideal you can think of?

Wow.

[Jed Dilligan]

24. Freedom is real, not an ideal.

If the choice is between slavery and taking a life, I take the life. Anyone who would deprive another of freedom deserves to die, anyway.

[jgraz]

25. That depends -- who do I get to kill?

I can think of ten or twelve people I'd do for a free beer.

[Radical Activist]

26. pacifism

I would kill for pacifism.

:D

[melnjones]

31. lol nt

[Lone_Star_Dem]

27. I hold many beliefs for which I would die

But I cannot think of a one for which I would kill, there are too many other ways to achieve one's goals.

[goodhue]

28. nonviolence

[Raine]

29. My family

that's it.

[melnjones]

30. Other...

I wouldn't intentionally kill anyone. Killing as part of self-defense or as part of directly in the moment defending someone else, when it's meant as protection rather than being pre-meditated, is as far as I could go.

[Mizmoon]

32. Die how?

Will it hurt? Can I die for my ideals when I'm like 99 years old and sleeping please?

[laylah]

33. My children or another beloved n/t