The Myth of "The All-Volunteer Army"

[Jcrowley]

This nation prides itself on the voluntary aspects of today’s military. In reality, upon careful inspection, it can be seen that when one is living on a reservation or in an urban American Bantustan without viable opportunity to excel or a meaningful future to look forward to, the "freedom to choose" becomes a choice to survive, and in that sense there is nothing voluntary about joining the armed forces. When given a choice to either remain in a perpetual caste or escape onto new horizons, the decision is simple. In the world’s richest nation the choices presented to the urban citizen should not be so narrow and difficult.

However, when the system encourages and indeed fosters the caste system in order to have a large number of easily exploitable subjects that become either soldiers or low wage slaves, the choices become not voluntary in the normal sense of the word but rather compulsory decisions made to better one’s life. The system’s diseases make joining the military the only option in order to live a better life, and, in the real world, the system drafts these men and women thanks to the widespread levels of oppression it creates.

This makes the belief in an all volunteer army nothing but a mirage. People are basically forced to join, preferring to risk going to war than to dying living a life of hardship in an invisibly enclosed Bantustan that offers little of anything. The caste draft therefore selects the downtrodden, the less affluent, the less educated and the ones that, were they to stay near home, would have but a very uninviting future.

[FormerDittoHead]

1. I say they should be given the option of going to Iraq, if they're so much all for it...

Especially for their 4th or 5th tour...

Then we'll see how many are "volunteering"...

[rainy]

2. Well stated! nt

[bryant69]

3. Obviously economic conditions in America are not what they should be

That said, I think this is a bit of a stretch. It's called a volunteer army because people don't go around and make you join. The fact that they see an economic upside to joining doesn't mean they are forced to join.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Jcrowley]

10. You have to really

ignore an entire constellation of conditions and experiences in the daily life of the desperately poor to see this as simply a matter of choice.

And then there is another example of the kids who get in trouble with the law, again because their lives are devoid of opportunity in this system of legalized wage-slavery, and they are offered the "choice" of jail time or the military. Lots of those cases.

And then there are the immigrants who have been forced into desperate situations, by the same economic model that destroys communities in the US, who are given the "choice" of a green card if they join the military and serve their time in the US War Machine.

That's not choice it's coercion. There are a thousand stories out there. To call it volunteer is to ignore those stories and the hardships of people's daily lives and the predatory nature of the US Recruiting Machine.

[bobbolink]

16. Again, thank you so much! Would that all DEMS have your understanding!

Would be really great if all USians understood these issues as you do, but if at least "liberals" could grasp it, think of the changes for the better that could be made1

Thanks for having such a good heart. :applause:

[JacksonWest]

22. I respectfully disagree with you. I think you're only looking at this from one angle.

And painting a very black and white picture of the military. Poverty is a problem in this country, and being broke can lead to some very bad decisions. However, the military is often a positive force in peoples lives. I have relatives that have served and are serving. I could have joined the military to pay for college-instead I worked 80 hours a week during the summers and took out student loans. We all have choices-the military is a very complex, personal, and hard choice. While I disagree with this pResident's use and deployment of it, I respect the institution and the people that make up it. I don't think any are "forced" to join-anymore then someone is forced to sell crack, or work two jobs. We all have choices. I also think that the military, overall, is beneficial to its members.

And yes, I know, there are over 3000 dead and God knows how many wounded right now. That is tragic. It does not negate the positive impact.

[Jcrowley]

23. That's simply ignoring

an entire socio-economic framework. It's also utterly devoid of any historical analysis as to what are the present conditions and how they became as they are. In fact it's really ahistorical and not based on anything other than the mythical shibboleth of choice. Utter rubbish.


Yea, it's all about choice. So many blacks in jail. Must be the entire race is plagued with poor choice-making capabilities? Nope, no institutional racism or structural poverty involved in this grotesque injustice. Just "choice."

The entire country of Malawi is in a state of deprivation. Damn. A whole country making bad choices? Nothing to do with the legacy of colonialism?

Your argument simply doesn't hold water. It's used often as a copout to blame the victim. It's also promoted by the PTB so as to perpetuate the falsehood that it is up to the individual to succeed and if they do not it is due to some failing of their own. This is done so as to avoid a wider and deeper analysis of an unjust system, to deflect attention from a cruel society, and it's echoed by many who have become indoctrinated by the very same system.

As for the military being a positive force in people's lives I would say that the balance is way over towards the military being a destructive and murderous influence on people's lives here and elsewhere. We needn't go over the sheer number of people killed and wounded, on disability, committed suicide, alcoholism and so on do we?

Furthermore let's examine a society that would depend on authoritarianism "to straighten out" it's troubled kids and the pathologies of that society that bring us to that point in the first place.

[JacksonWest]

27. "mythical shibboleth of choice"

Ok, right. Would option be a better word, since choice is a myth(or arbitrary)?

It's hard to argue with someone who can simply say that I've been indoctrinated by "society"(the little puppy that lost his way). But, please, let's go over "the sheer number of people killed and wounded, on disability, committed suicide, alcoholism". If you have these numbers, and can compare them with the aggregate amount of people in the military, and compare this trend with non-military people, I'd be happy to see it.

Somehow, I doubt the majority of military people are wounded, suicidal, or alcoholics. But, I can't point to a study that points one way or the other. Nor am i going to look for one.

As far as society being cruel...yes. I'm not sure why you think it's not up to the individual to succeed. This sounds like the rant of someone that has never tasted success or is flirting with socialist utopias late at night. While it is obvious that we are all going to gain assistance and support from our peers, friends, family, and society, the driving force of any individual success is the individual.

As far as blacks being in jail...whatever. Racism is one answer, usually shouted the loudest by some thoughtless 14 year old who just watched Mississippi burning in his High School English class. The more logical answer would be poverty, which affects a greater percentage of African-Americans. it's hard to get out of poverty, period. African Americans were the victims of institutional racism for hundreds of years. There are after-effects, but we don't have a system in place that is devoted to punishing African-Americans.

You can blame colonization for whatever you like. Some people evolve faster. It's a cruel world, as you've astutely noted. Small, tribal societies don't stand much of a chance. Ask the Native Americans sometime.

Anyways, if individuals can't really make choices, why not fix an election? Or lie about a war? If we as a country can not make rational choices, is it wrong for our leaders to lie to us? Rove doesn't seem to mind. Your thought process and his probably aren't much different. Since people can't be trusted to make the right choice, we should make it for them.

[Jcrowley]

31. Sounds like

you're an advocate of social darwinism and your statement that those who are the mass murderers of entire civilizations are the ones who have evolved is pretty appalling to say the least.

Prior reports have indicated that the prevalence of alcohol-related problems in VA patients is significantly higher than that found in the general population. Prevalence rates, however, are likely to be affected by the screening instrument employed. A sample of 722 VA outpatients awaiting general medical and urgent care treatment was asked to complete two screening questionnaires: the World Health Organization's AUDIT and the brief MAST. Of 508 completed AUDITs, 55 (11%) scored above the cut-offs of 11 for harmful consumption, and 85 (17%) above the more liberal cut-off score of 8; whereas of 501 completed MASTs, 104 (21%) scored above the cut-off. Differences in identification rates are discussed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7560146&dopt=Abstract

MORE DISABLED VETS

"More than ever before," Brad Flohr of the Dept. of Veterans Affairs said about the total number of disabled vets. Asked if there are more disabled vets now than even after World War II, Flohr said he believed so.

Terry Jemison of the Dept. of Veterans Affairs told AFP that current statistics indicate that more than half a million veterans of the 14-year-old "Gulf War era" are now receiving disability compensation. During this period, some 7,035 soldiers are reported having been wounded in Iraq .

With 518,739 disabled "Gulf-era veterans" currently receiving disability compensation, according to Jemison, the number of veterans disabled after the war is more than 73 times the total number of wounded, in and out of combat, from the entire 14-year conflict with Iraq.

http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2004/08/15_bollyn_depleted-uranium-blamed-cancer.htm

Your honesty in admitting you aren't interested in researching any facts is appreciated.

The notion that the rates of suicide and alcoholism as well as mortality rates is higher is well-proven and the above citations are just to get you thinking about this a bit.

Again what your unable to grasp, or unwilling, is that this omnicidal economic system which depends on an empire of bases and chews up its citizens in and out of the military is what needs to be eliminated.

People are by nature communal and the atomization of folks is only a recent and insidious growth from the cancer of capitalism.

To say that there is not a system in place that is punishing African-Americans takes an amazing amount of denial as to what is readily obvious.

It's really amazing that one could see the troubles all around this society with many millions of people and think that it's just an "individual" thing.

[JacksonWest]

32. If it's research you want.....

I told you that I doubted that the aggregate amount of military personnel had "negative effects". Currently, there are 1.4 million active duty personnel, and 26.5 million veterans residing in the United States.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2003/cb03-ff04se.html

You're stats indicate that VA outpatients have a propensity to drink more then their civilian counter parts. Yet, it does not indicate that the majority of veterans are alcoholics-or even close. I don't know what percentage of veterans go to VA hospitals-the study doesn't say either.

You're next source is referring to depleted uranium in the Gulf War-and is from a site that advocates the end of nuclear weapons(an admirable goal). It doesn't discuss if the disability claims stem from the soldiers active duty or from a condition or event that has happened since. An auto accident suffered during peace time would still raise claims to disability.

http://www.vba.va.gov/bln/21/summaryVAbenefits.pdf

I'm sorry if Social Darwinism appalls you. Unfortunately, in this little world of ours, the culture that is more advanced tends to wipe out the ones that are far behind. If it makes you feel better to think murder is not a component of an advanced society-watch Star Trek. We're still stuck in the dark ages. I don't feel bad for the victims of history and human behavior. I hope we can learn from it and prevent other tragic, barbaric events. And yet, here we are in Iraq.


As far as suicide rates-yes, they are higher then other population groups. And they still amount to about one hundredth of one percent of active duty members.

http://www.suicidereferencelibrary.com/test4~id~444.php

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/terrorism/a/arsuicide.htm

What you are unwilling to grasp is that the presence of negative traits does not negate the existence of an entity. I'm not arguing that the military does have suicides, or alcoholics. People die and are injured., However, the majority of people who serve do nut die, get injured, or kill them self. I don't expect perfection. Do you? IS there any institution that can make people conform and behave in sync-in all aspects? How could we eradicate alcoholics from society?

back to African Americans, apparently I'm in denial because I don't think there is a system that punishes African Americans. hmmm. never said that, didn't mean to imply it. I'll elaborate-there isn't a system that is dedicated to punishing African Americans simply because they are African Americans. You seem pretty astute-I thought you would have picked up on my meaning. If some one is African American, and they are in prison, chances are it's for a crime against society. Usually another African American.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

Courts do not put African Americans in jail because they are black. They do not impose a separate set of laws. If you're born into poverty, life is tough. And it's harder to get a fair shake. But the system isn't inherently racist.

Any-hooo, as far as the rest, I don't consider capitalism a "cancer", nor does the Democratic Party. I see "troubles" every day. I don't consider every trouble an "individual" thing. I'm not sure what you mean, to be honest. There are often broad solutions that can help specific problems. But, as I said, I'm not sure what you're trying to say, so I won't elaborate.

[DaveJ]

17. Yes and No

The OP is correct in that there are not many viable choices out there. We are exploited by the system one way or another. Whether we join the Army or work for a big corporation we are not free.

It's not so much a matter of whether it's voluntary or not, but WHAT it is we are defending.

Why are we defending the right of a nation to refuses healthcare based on socioeconomic status?
Why are we defending a nation that blatantly treats its neighbors who immigrate here like lesser individuals?
Why are we defending a nation that has every resource available yet refuses to make strides in protecting the environment?
Why are we defending a nation that does not expect anything from the RICH while we are expected to abide by their every command without question?

[bowens43]

4. Ridiculous.

This 'economic draft' crap is nothing but bullshit. There is no one in the military today who did not VOLUNTEER to be there. The choice was there's. They were not drafted and they were not forced to enlist.

[Jcrowley]

9. They certainly were forced

To consider force something that is just a physical thing is simplistic. Coercion can also be a product of circumstances.

People are also forced to work at McDonald's, Wal-Mart etc. by economic leverage that is placed upon them. If you don't believe that head to any town Arkansas and look around for a job.

The false notion that people have choices not only leaves out the notion of "Meaningful" choices but says nothing about the economic caste system we are all having to endure.

Many men and women in small town america join the military for a job and decent pay. How many jobs have been shipped overseas for cheap labor. It's called professional slavery.

Now not all have been forced but many many thousands. It's no accident that the economically disadvantaged (from the start) represent large numbers in the military. Is it then the case that poor people choose the military more often than the upper-middle class "Just Cause?"

[ProfessorGAC]

28. Too Convenient A Position

You have created an intellectually dishonest trap by which you are now freely redefining terms that are too inconveient for your thesis.

The word "choice" is not yours to redefine. As soon as you do that, you invalidate your position.
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

29. Dupe

.

[havocmom]

13. When kids of middle class, self employed business owners can't afford college

and are forced to join the military to earn a college education, it IS NOT VOLUNTARY!

When people cannot earn a decent wage at one job to enable them to put themselves through school, the military option is not a 'choice'

The economy is arranged to ensure those lower than the very top have less and less options with each succeeding generation.

Volunteer my ass. The economic draft is thriving in America. Less options = more enlistments. Purely an economic choice. People cannot get jobs to allow them to live and get medical care when they need it. People can not get through school.

Volunteer Army? Not in America.

[nam78_two]

5. Excellent post-K&R/nt

[Reterr]

6. kr.eom

[Ron Green]

7. Agreed! All the more reason for two years of mandatory National Service.

[TahitiNut]

8. Ditto.

Never underestimate the power of denial and blame assignment. Nevermind 'democracy' and all that idealistic stuff about the People being supreme. Let's just blame the people losing legs, arms and lives. Pass the pizza. (Burp!)

[jody]

11. Volunteer to join military but illegal to volunteer to leave. That's involuntary servitude! n/t

[pecwae]

12. Unless your name is Bush

and want to go to business school.

[intheflow]

14. Other national service options are not presented, and constantly face budget cuts.

AmeriCorps and Vista are ways to serve our country and develop leadership skills which do not involve being trained to kill anyone. They offer generous stipends, room & board, health care, money for education, and in some cases, child care reimbursement. Conservatives keep whining about how this "volunteer" program should be cut from the budget for running on about $3million dollars while the "volunteer" army can waste billions and they applaud the service of our soldiers. AmeriCorps and Vista workers are rebuilding the Gulf Coast, in lieu of any other help from the government, and certainly not from the National Guard, who are off in Iraq. Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with recruiting in high schools if they pushed the domestic service programs along with the military ones. At least then kids would know they had peaceful "volunteer" opportunities. As it is, you'd really only hear about AmeriCorps through your guidance counselor if you had a guidance counselor who was hip to AmeriCorps in the first place, and who also identified it as a viable option for kids not on a traditional college track.

:kick:

[Ron Green]

18. You make a very important point.

I think that at some level, all mandatory service should be the same, in that it's universal, subsistence wage, credited the same, etc. But at some point those with various aptitudes could elect (or be selected for) different kinds of service. The important issue is that any young person who enjoys the opportunities of our society ought to serve for a couple of years at least.

[zbdent]

15. Repukes always portray themselves as "smarter" than libs ... and

then they don't "enlist" for the armed services ... being "too smart to waste" and could make more money than the private sector ...

and then they blasted Kerry for screwing up a jab at Bush, saying "Look, he's calling the troops stupid!"

[DaveJ]

20. What a sweeping generalization, that is absolutely true

The Repukes are all about taking advantage of the poor in one way or another. They see the poor as a resource that they can used for their own purposes. Some of them will talk about how they used to be poor and pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, when in fact they usually clawed their way up like monsters often destroying more than a few lives along the way.

And yes I know more than a few Republicans like the ones you mention. One is a college Republican in his early 20s who isn't joining the military because, at least a couple years ago, he thought there was not a huge need for him to join. If there were a big need for him o join, he would, he said. Well let's see there's a call for more troops now, and those there are overworked. Has he decided to go now? Hell no....

[zbdent]

25. In my workplace, a microcosm of the example ...

I have several "leftish" co-workers who have family members who have served in this conflict ... one whose son did his tour in Iraq, another with a nephew doing the same, a couple of others who have relatives over there or had gone over there.

Then I have my red co-worker ... Vietnam veteran, die-hard "Bush is doing the right thing in Iraq!" type ... turned purple one time trying to tell me (before the TV revelation) that Clinton admitted sleeping with Monica L. ... then lied to my face trying to convince me that he never said any such thing ... his son is now an EMT ... I'm sure he could be of great use in Iraq ... for the sake of keeping civility in the workplace (I actually like this guy), I never slap him in the face with "If you believe this is such a good thing, why don't you send your obviously physically fit son over to fight for the Iraqi freedoms?"

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. I "volunteered" to escape the draft and unemployment.

Not to mention the sheer stupidity of an adolescent fresh out of high-school who fell for the blatantly false advertising of "The Marine Corps Builds Men".

[aikoaiko]

21. some truth to what you say, but its not as bad as you say either

Yes, there are desperate people in the US with little hope and .mil service offers a chance to break a cycle of poverty. For most US residents, economic choices and jobs are not completely free. I can't really criticize the military for offering a better future (even one that include Iraq) than what some people already have.

People are not forced to join. Basically or otherwise.

What is a Bantustan?

[Deja Q]

24. Just like with Vietnam...

Poor job market, people will "choose" to sign up.

I'm about to do the same. There's nothing else left.

[genie_weenie]

26. America is a plutocracy.

Social mobility is fairly low and money rules the day. Every now and then a person is allowed to rise above their station (usually through a great invention or sports) but those are the exceptions. And once they do rise up the Governmental appartus ensures they know to keep their place and maintain the status quo.

It's been this way for a long time.

The lesser classes are cogs in the wheels of industry and the military. To be used to open new markets for American Business to flood into and to be discarded when they are broken or destroyed.

[rman]

30. Not to mention that of those individuals who volunteer for war,

more tend to enjoy killing for money and/or for fun than your 'average Joe' does.
- not exactly the kind of people you want to fight a just war (though perfect for fighting unjust war)