Does anyone REALLY believe that w will give up his precious war?

[Philosoraptor]

I know he's getting ready to expose 20,000 more of our sons and daughters to the death squads, and I know that we voted loudly against the republik's war, and I know that our troops will be there for the next decade, and I know that protesting and begging will not stop the madness or even slow it down, and I know that the American people won't suddenly start caring or doing something about it, so I settle in for a 'long war', just like dubya promised us so many times.

Does bush really have a plan for victory? No. Does he really plan on ending the war? No. Does he really believe all that success through surge crap? No. Will all of our efforts and sacrifices really bring peace, democracy, and freedom and stability to the Sunnis and Shias? No.

All of this, all the grief, all the sorrow and horror and blood and trillions of dollars, all those soldiers, all those Iraqis, have died, and will die, for nothing.

It was all for nothing. All in vain. They'll call it a mistake, they'll call it the calling of our life time, they'll call it everything but what it is, a complete, inescapable disaster. They all died for nothing, it can't be fixed, we'll be there for years and years and years to come.

Pessimistic enough for ya?

[endarkenment]

1. Yes of course: when we leave there will be a huge celebration. nt.

[Avalux]

2. The meaning of the word "victory" to Bush and his buddies -

endless war, control of oil fields, massive profits for American oil cos (and their peeps). It's always been about the oil; us, our troops and Iraqis are merely commodities to be used and disposed of and our tax dollars fund their profits.

They don't give a damn about peace, they have no intention of eventually bringing our troops home. Their plan is working perfectly.

[Philosoraptor]

4. Does anyone REALLY believe we can tell dubya to stop his war?

Or that the Democrats will have any sway whatsoever against him and his war? Color me doubtful.

[Avalux]

5. I am doubtful he can be stopped.

Seems to me the mechanism driving the war machine is too massive; too much money and power. I really don't know how it can be stopped and I fear we will only see escalation, despite efforts by some.

[Philosoraptor]

6. They won't just come out and say it though.

They'll say it with patriotic sounding lies, and color it as homeland security.

[Joe for Clark]

3. I really think prayer is the best option -

Pick your religion -

America is a great country, has done great things for so many people for so long.

We are due one here - Anyway, Karma is on our side right now!!!

Joe

[stillcool]

7. realistic/pessamistic...

what's the diff?..

Targeting Iran
by Saman Sepehri
International Socialist Review, November-December 20006
........................................................................
There is no alternative for the United States. The U.S. cannot just concede the Middle East. Whatever the difficulties, it will not walk away from the most important strategic area in a world economy defined by greater energy needs.
The United States is not out of options in its dealings with Iran. There is still a possibility of pushing through certain scaled down resolutions through the UN Security Council to force other countries to curb trade with Iran (if we can't have Iran-you can't either), cutting Iran's economic ties, and weakening its economy. There is the possibility of using such UN resolutions as a fig leaf (just like in the invasion of Iraq) for more aggressive tactics when the time comes-such as harassment, ship searches, and a blockade of goods traveling into Iran's ports with the excuse of stopping military and nuclear shipments. This would certainly bottle up the Iranian navy, and prevent the possible closing or mining of the Strait of Hormuz by Iran in retaliation for a U.S. attack-a serious concern since about half of the world's oil exports travel through this twenty-mile wide waterway. This "soft blockade" could also provoke an "incident" which could be used as a pretext to launch wider assaults.
And finally, taking a page out of the Iraq playbook, the United States has already started a campaign of destabilization through fomenting ethnic unrest. There have already been a series of explosions and bombings targeting mostly civilians, in Khuzestan and Kurdish cities bordering Iraq, and raids on government vehicles and even civilians in Baluchestan, on the Pakistani border, by small groups which have surfaced calling for independence. Given the Iranian regime's history of repression, the demands for autonomy and independence, especially in Kurdistan, can actually strike a chord and mesh with real grievances. This crisis may take time to develop. Or an incident in the Persian Gulf may accelerate the pace of events. But the confrontation with Iran will come. It will be our job in the U.S. to organize a movement against yet another U.S. military adventure in the Middle East.

Saman Sepehri is author of "The Geopolitics of Oil" (ISR 26, November-December 2002) and "The Iranian Revolution" (ISR 9, August-September 2000).http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Iran/Tar...

[blues90]

8. It was entirely for NOTHING !

The lies worked all to well . This is why I feel most americans are asleep in so many ways . I feel sick about that .

There is no way to ever ammend the death and damage the US has done , how can we possibly bring this back , we can't and it's the reality .

I don't think this occupation will ever end and it will continue and spread out into Iran sooner than later .

All for stinking oil and power .

I think about the troops who have died and their families and the troops who came back physically or mentally destroyed and they have to continue through life like this . I also think about the Iraqi people who met the same fate and the ones tortured daily with their cities destroyed .

This is difficult to comprehend and think about for long without that sick depression and feeling of helplessness rushing in .

I feel even if we had tens of millions of protestors out there still nothing would change and it is a bit late for many even if this did have an effect .

I dream we could rush the whitehouse and pull these murderers out but this will never happen as tens of millions protesting will never happen .

This is not the american I grew up in and will never be the america it once was dreamed to be .

[stansnark]

9. not after pelosi just gave him a green light

[Stevepol]

10. When he started the war, he had the whole world against him.

In the US, over 60% of the people didn't want the war. In other countries the % was something like 90%. Of course, after he started a relentless campaign of lying and exaggeration to market the war, that began to change.

Now the numbers are even higher than they were in the world and in the US against him.

But Bush is not one to listen to reason. Never has been. I suspect if he'd been forced to accept responsibility for his actions at an early age, he might consider a change of policy. But I doubt this is even on his radar screen. When you've never had to suffer the consequences for your actions, you learn to do what you want come hell or high water. Somebody, Daddy, will always bail me out.