Chess in schools could have prevented Iraq War

[yurbud]

(and probably a couple of others)

I read that while traditional enrichment classes like art and music are being cut, a lot of schools are adding chess because it helps with math and critical thinking skills.

This seemed odd to me at first--until I thought about the Iraq War. If the war had pitched to a nation of chess players, it would not have sold because they would think several moves ahead.

For example, Bush sold the war on the threat of WMD, but a chess player would think ahead--what could Saddam do with those weapons? What would we do if he did that? Then they would ask themselves if Saddam was able to think two moves ahead (probably since he was smart enough to get and hold power in Iraq).

Instead, we have a country that has trouble thinking even one move out. We have a visceral emotional response to something and act, regardless of the possible consequences.

Bush's dad is not a good person, but he was a better chess player than his son. He could have gone into Baghdad as easily or even more easily than his son, and might have incited less rebellion. But he knew the outcome would ultimately be what Baby Bush got or worse--not just Iraq, but some of our allies in the region coming unravelled too.

The republicans were able to plan several moves ahead in their assault on democracy, but they didn't ancipate the public's response once the roofies wore off.

Right now, I can't tell if the Democrats are only half a move ahead or playing a very long strategy. I hope it's the latter.

[villager]

1. the problem with videogames trumping chess?

n/t

[TimeChaser]

3. Depends on the game

Most of the games my friends and I enjoy involve strategy in various forms.

[villager]

4. but videogames allow no time for reflection, yes?

or have I miscontrued the rate at which my son must constantly work the controls while playing?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Sure they do.

In fact, you can start over from the beginning, or near any place you want.

[villager]

8. well, yes, there's the "do over" and the "turn off" and all those things

we don't have in real life.

I'm just saying that one wouldn't call videogames a "contemplative" pastime, is all. Not looking to bash them, just acknowledging they represent a whole different "energy vibration," you might say, than chess does.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. One wouldn't?

I would.

[villager]

10. how do find them "contemplative" in the "meditative" sense?

I'm asking -- genuinely curious.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. The same way chess is contemplative.

Should I do A, B, C, or D.

Actually, it's more usually "Oh, shit. Why did I do B? I should have done A."

[villager]

13. hmmm... but not requiring cathode rays, I really wonder if chess is the same....

I believe there are innate physiological differences in the state you'd be in...

then again, I've been known to play chess against a computer screen.

But I don't think it was the same experience my son has playing "Warhammer," say.

[walldude]

22. It depends on the game...

Granted consoles are geared more toward shooting/driving/sports games but computer games are in a whole different world. There are many games that teach history, strategy, contemplative thought and out of the box thinking. A few that come to mind.
Sim City all the problems of managing a big city, power, water, overpopulation, growth and even natural disasters are problems you have to face.
The Sims. Manage a household, take care of your family. Build your dream home. Careful though, if you screw up Social Services will be there to take your kids away from you.
Civilization. Build a civilization from Ancient Rome and grow it till you have the technology to colonize space.
Any Tycoon game will teach you about running a business. They run from the simple (Lemonade Stand Tycoon) to the extravagant (Railroad Tycoon). Even games like Roller Coaster Tycoon teach you that running an Amusment Park can be fun but you still have to clean up the vomit.
My personal favorite genre, text, and point and click adventure games have kind of fallen by the wayside but there are still companies that make them. Talk about out of the box thinking! You are standing in front of a locked door, you see in the key hole that the key is in the lock on the other side of the door. You look in your pocket and you see you have a piece of bread and a toothpick from lunch. How do you open the door?


On edit: Oh I amost forgot. Will Wright the designer of the Sims and Sim City has a new game coming called SPORE where you start out as a microbe and have to evolve your game character into a sentient being. Woo Hoo! They may not teach Evolution in school but my kids will be learning all about it, and I'll probably have to peel them away from it.

Edit again: Slide the bread under the door, directly under the lock, push the toothpick into the lock, force the key out the other side, it falls on the bread, pull the bread back out with the key on it ;)

[TimeChaser]

15. Let's see

Final Fantasy X

I've sat for five minutes trying to figure out the best way to go about defeating a boss. Most RPGs I play involve turn-based battles, which is much different from the stereotypical hack and slash or FPS type games.

And then there's puzzle games and strategy games.

[pitohui]

2. by that reasoning poker in schools would have prevented the iraq war

there's a lot more gamesmanship than goes into poker if you ask me, i'm not even sure where they're getting any "math" in playing chess, have you ever used any math to play chess? i haven't (admittedly i'm a shitty player) -- but there is actual math involved in poker if only to calculate your odds

ask yourself, chess is already being played at world class levels by machines

not so for poker, it is far more the complex game and it also teaches about human nature, greed, and making difficult choices in the face of uncertainty

i say legalize and have a poker table in every study hall!

[tigereye]

6. however, the Brits played a lot of chess

and were much better educated than us, and they still made the same mistakes in the early part of the last century.

Too bad no of the neo-cons read the history books!

[yurbud]

17. early part of 20th, they were still a world empire and brit citizens didn't have detailed info

on what was going on in India or elsewhere.

[tigereye]

24. yes, but the people making the decisions played chess

and I'm not sure that many of the citizens didn't play. Wasn't that the question? ;)


I'm afriad using common sense is still not that common, however; regardless of one's penchant for chess or education level.

[yurbud]

25. even if you play, you can't predict moves if you don't see the pieces which average citizen didn't

and actually, most don't now.

[ixion]

7. if school were actually more about honing critical thinking skills, and less

about regurgitating dogma verbatim, the world would be a far better place, IMO.

[Selteri]

11. I agree there, schools are for teaching kids multiple things.

How to take care of themselves.
A basic picture of the facts.
How to do the Math they'll need in life.
HOW TO THINK CRITICALLY AND INDEPENDENTLY!!!!

The rest is just the details. Few teachers inspire or require active actual thought.

[yurbud]

19. read an essay on purpose of college once that said all the job specific facts you learn will be

obsolete by the time you actually get the job. So it's learning the process of thinking in the discipline that matters, so you can learn and use the new facts as they come up.

[ixion]

21. Exactly. The ONLY reason you go to school is to

learn how to learn. It took me a long time to realize that, given the nature of our educational system, which doesn't actually teach people how to learn, it assumes they know how to learn and just dumps a bunch of worthless data in there. It's really a backward system that will not serve us well over the long term, IMO.

[yurbud]

23. rote memorization teaches you one thing--how to memorize (worth something)

[yurbud]

18. problem is dogmatists not only majority in general public, but teachers and treated so poorly

and are supervised by such rank retards, that smart people who venture into the profession are practically run out on a rail.

[ixion]

20. I agree. That is a huge problem.

Any teacher who actually tries to teach is summarily dismissed.

With an education system like that, we'll be back to the Dark Ages before you know it. :-(

[yurbud]

26. I think administrators should be drafted for five year terms then rotated back into the classroom.

shitty teachers should not be allowed to promote themselves into the front office with a few night classes either. They could volunteer for medical experiments, be used to clear mine fields, or as human targets to train attack dogs.

[Davis_X_Machina]

14. I can't keep a team going in my HS...

...and the kids themselves say it's because chess can't compete with the console games.

Too bad.

Chess punishes impulsiveness and failure to plan, which would seem to be part of the problem in Iraq.

[AndyTiedye]

16. Bush Sr. Was a Good Enough Chess Player to Know NOT to Go Into Baghdad At All