Rape, murder, and Randi.

[BuyingThyme]

The First Amendment gave all Americans the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances. These days, many of those grievances seem to be focused on the Iraq War.

The powers of war are the sole domain of the government. But it seems that the business of war is increasingly being conducted by private organizations (corporations).

So, if one has grievances about the way the war is being conducted by corporations, shouldn't one’s voiced grievances against the corporations be protected to the same extent that one’s voiced grievances against the government are protected?

Case in point: Randi Rhodes and Air America Radio are being sued by CACI.

As I understand it, CACI International Inc. wants $11,000,000 because Randi accused CACI employees of participating in rape and murder at Abu Ghraib. The case seems to hinge on whether or not AAR’s lawyers can provide direct evidence of CACI’s participation.

Thanks to the First Amendment, Randi can make these accusations against the government with little fear of legal retaliation. But when the words are applied to CACI, a government agent, they are somehow held to a different standard.

Therefore, the privatization of war seems to pose a direct threat to the First Amendment rights of all Americans.

And if the current trend towards corporatism continues, won’t all of our rights similarly be compromised?

I guess this is what fascism is all about, eh?

[ThomCat]

1. Granting rights to corporations is the downfall of

rights for people.
x(

This is a backdoor way for our rights to be gutted.

[MzNov]

6. Our rights have been gutted since about oh, 2001...

and. Can I be in the jury?

[ThomCat]

8. It's been happening longer than that.

[Solo_in_MD]

2. So you would have it be open season for slander and libel on any corporation or company

such as:
- Air America
- Sea Shepard Society
- Move On
- any progressive company or co-op

If Randi was wrong, she should admit it and back down. If she was right, the truth is an absolute defense, something not true in Europe and elsewhere.

[blue sky at night]

3. you must not know randi....

she never goes anywhere without proper research.

[Solo_in_MD]

11. If true, the suit is a slam dunk, if its not, it never would have gotten this far

which makes it curious

[BuyingThyme]

13. It might get this far if CACI knew the government

would withhold relevant documents. Or maybe if CACI had a confidentiality agreement with the government.

[Canuckistanian]

33. "if you wanna talk to me, you better know your stuff....."

How many times have I heard that from Randi?

If you want to challenge Randi, you'd better "know your stuff", or else be humiliated. If not now then later.

She's rarely wrong on her facts.

[BuyingThyme]

4. What government business is being conducted by

Air America, Sea Shepard Society, and Move On?

[Solo_in_MD]

14. So only corporations contracting with the government could be slandered and libeled?

If ANY corporation or legal entity can be slandered with impunity, then all could be. There is not/should not be distinctions based on function or contract. Something about equal status. You basic thesis is untenable. If you want open season on CACI, its open season on our corporate fellow travelers too. You can't have it both ways.

As others have pointed out, Randi normally has all her ducks in a row before she says something. Why this has proceeded so far is odd. Did she slip up? I certainly hope not.

I did see that it was originally dismissed, but the reason was not given. It may have been a technicality in the bankruptcy proceedings, or something more substantial.

[BuyingThyme]

23. The only "both ways" argument is the one you're making.

You seem to be saying our right to petition the government is contingent on whether or not a corporation is involved. I say it's a right.

[Solo_in_MD]

27. Nothing you have said has shown any inpediment to petitioning for redress

Remember, the truth is an absolute defense against slander and libel charges whether it be a person or a company.

[BuyingThyme]

30. But truth is not cut and dry when it comes to the government.

And any activity which impedes those who seek truth, impedes the First Amendment.

[Richard Steele]

7. Wow, use strawman arguements much?

[Solo_in_MD]

10. Its more a form of reducto absurdum

[Richard Steele]

16. Perhaps you meant to say "Producto OscarMayerum"?

Cuz no matter how thin you slice it, it's still BALONEY.

[Marie26]

25. Truth is relative

If your company is almost bankrupt, any lawsuit, even a meritless one, can drive it over the edge. AFAIK, the charges against CACI are well-documented and public knowledge - however, it's hard to find any mention of it in the US press. Maybe CACI's lawsuit helped to chill the rest of the MSM from reporting these abuses?

"Big Steve" and Abu Ghraib

"Big Steve," whose real name is Steven Anthony Stefanowicz, worked as an interrogator for military intelligence at Abu Ghraib. But he was no ordinary soldier. Stefanowicz was one of dozens of civilian employees from Virginia contractor CACI International hired by the Pentagon to work at the prison.

According to a military policeman who testified at the court-martial, Stefanowicz directed the abuse in one of the most infamous incidents captured on camera at Abu Ghraib: A prisoner in an orange jumpsuit being menaced with an unmuzzled dog. ...

The role of Stefanowicz and other civilian contractors accused of abuse remains one of the murkiest aspects of Abu Ghraib. Stefanowicz was first identified as a perpetrator of abuse nearly two years ago by two high-profile Army investigations, known as the Taguba and Fay reports -- but he has never been charged with a crime.

Now, more allegations about his role have emerged, including testimony from Smith's court-martial and in Army investigative materials obtained by Salon. In addition to the use of dogs to terrify prisoners, those allegations include the use of sexual humiliation and stress positions, and denying prisoners medical care ....

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/03/31/big_steve/

[DaveJ]

5. Absurd!!!!!!

This is the first I have heard of this and I'm outraged. Big business has been given the green light to trample on our rights while we are at work (sexual and age discrimination, denying free speech, predatory lending, monopolies, buying up all of the property, and more), and now that's still not enough for them, they want to make sure that nothing negative can be said about them in a public radio forum....

Now since they want to be litigious, if they were to win every radio host would have to be so careful about what they say that none of them will soon have the courage to say anything!

I don't care what law was written 100 years ago... a corporation is not a PERSON... and even if it were, there are certain principles that make them free game for ridicule. What about being a 'public figure' or something. This is Ridiculous... the PEOPLE'S right to voice their concerns freely far outweigh those of a few jaded corporate lackies.

Oh of course we should never be exposed to any negative talk about OUR MASTERS.

[Mist]

9. The court dismissed the case against Randi, but CACI is appealing the

decision. So far, Randi's one up on CACI.

http://iraqforsale.org/diaries/2007/01/caci_sues_air_america_radio_an.php

[BuyingThyme]

12. ::

A U.S. District Court dismissed the case, but CACI appealed that ruling. The bankruptcy court's decision allows the appeal to proceed.

http://ltradio.blogspot.com/

[LSK]

15. again??? I thought she already went to court over this

[Marie26]

19. Dismissed by district court

It was revived by the bankruptcy cout judge.

[annabanana]

17. This is chilling...

The government has been outsourced, bankrupted and crippled... Private, coporate security firms will take over all policing and the roundups will begin..

All Pinkertons all the time...

This has gone over the edge and has to be pulled back.

It's hard to be optimistic for the Country while robber barons on steroids are pumping the common weal dry..

[Marie26]

18. That's outrageous

So nobody can ever expose any of the illegal, corrupt things that Bush's cronies do, or else they'll be sued out of existence? And we wonder why there's no investigative journalism anymore.

CACI did torture prisoners at Abu Ghraib. Sue me.

Abu Ghraib abuse firms are rewarded

As prison ringleader awaits sentence, defence contractors win multi-million Pentagon contracts

Peter Beaumont, foreign affairs editor
Sunday January 16, 2005
The Observer

Two US defence contractors being sued over allegations of abuse at Abu Ghraib prison have been awarded valuable new contracts by the Pentagon, despite demands that they should be barred from any new government work. Three employees of CACI International and Titan - working at Abu Ghraib as civilian contractors - were separately accused of abusive behaviour.

The report on the Abu Ghraib scandal implicated three civilian contractors in the abuses: Steven Stefanowicz from CACI International and John Israel and Adel Nakhla from Titan. Stefanowicz was charged with giving orders that 'equated to physical abuse', Israel of lying under oath and Naklha of raping an Iraqi boy.

It was also alleged that CACI interrogators used dogs to scare prisoners, placed detainees in unauthorised 'stress positions' and encouraged soldiers to abuse prisoners. ... Investigators also discovered systemic problems of management and training - including the fact that a third of CACI International's staff at Abu Ghraib had never received formal military interrogation training.

Despite demands by human rights groups in the US that the two companies be barred from further contracts in Iraq - where CACI alone employed almost half of all interrogators and analysts at Abu Ghraib - CACI International has been awarded a $16 million renewal of its contract.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1391443,00.html

[walldude]

20. Actually the only way either side can win

would be with the release of classified documents. Since we all know the Bush Administration won't release the documents the case will never be settled. I kind of wonder why the Administration didn't tell the CAIC to drop the damn case before one of those "liberal judges" demands to see the evidence.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. That's what I thought.

I mean, wouldn't CACI basically have to prove that they weren't involved?

[Solo_in_MD]

28. Actually one will win without classified docs if it goes to trial

Its a civil case...

[Kurovski]

21. K&R.

Yep, an alliance between the state and private corporations= fascism.

That's why fascists love "privatization."

[Cleita]

24. I think we need an ammendment separating business from

government, like we have separating church and state. When our country was founded, we didn't have the huge global interests then interfering in our government like they do now. I think the time has come. They compromise government as much as religion does. I also think the time has come to enforce the separation of church and state as well.

In the case of churches we can start threatening to remove their tax free status if they don't maintain that separation. What do we offer corporations to make them behave that we can take away? I certainly don't want to give them tax free status.

[BuyingThyme]

26. Yes, if we can do it with churches and radio stations,

why not with corporations. What makes them so damn special?

ON EDIT: Admittedly, I don't know exactly what "it" is.

[BuyingThyme]

38. Maybe gov't contractors should be

disallowed to sue over select issues stemming from, or related to, the work they do the the government.

[lonestarnot]

34. Excellent idea!

We could increase their taxes if they don't behave. That would take something away, their money, the thing they value most.

[porphyrian]

29. "Good thing we don't step in it."

Dog shit and fascism.

[provis99]

31. isn't CACI a mercenary group?

I thought rape and murder were just tools of the trade to mercenaries.

[BuyingThyme]

32. That's what I use to call 'em.

But CACI sued me last week. Now I call them peace puppies.

[progressoid]

35. I don't understand why CACI is so bent out of shape over this

From what Bill Oreilly tells us, Air America is irrelevant.

[BuyingThyme]

37. Maybe they want to make them more "irrelevant."

The latest ruling seems to permit the lawsuit (or appeal) to go forward only because AAR is insured. They want everything but the kitchen sink.

[Orsino]

36. That's the genius of *'s cult of secrecy.

We can no longer prove much of anything when it comes to his administration's crimes, and much of the brutality has been outsourced to corporations who can sue you out of existence for speaking out, and who conduct operations out of the reach of even the UCMJ. A suit like this one has to intimidate even Randi, so imagine its effect on private citizens who aren't lawyered up.

[HamdenRice]

39. Point of info: Randi does not have to prove truth of her allegation

Assuming that CACI is deemed, as a corporation, to be a public figure, it would have to prove actual malice or reckless disregard by Randi.

That means she does not have to get confidential documents to show that CACI engaged in torture.

All she has to show is that it is was reasonable for her to think that CACI was engaged in torture -- in other words, for example, by citing news reports she read.

[file83]

40. Good point. Furthermore, The First Amendment does not say that her opinion/conclusions must be

provable in a court of law. She's analyzing information and coming to her own conclusions - These aren't completely unsubstantiated accusations. It's not like she accused CACI of being involved in a child porn ring or anything.

For example, even though Ken Lay was never found "guilty" of involvment in the Enron scandle (he died before too soon), why didn't his family sue every single radio talk show over the years that implied that he was responsible for Enron's collapse?