The U.S. was founded on a belief system, but not the one Christian conservatives think.

[geardaddy]

When the likes of Virgil Goode and Denis Prager say that American values are Christian values and nothing else, most intelligent people refute that it wasn't a single belief system where such ideas as individual freedom came from. Among other sources such as the Six Nations of the Iroquois Confederacy, Thomas Paine and John Locke, Freemasonry espoused those ideals. Many of the Founding Fathers, including George Washington and Benjamin Franklin were Freemasons.

Now, there is a lot of conspiracy surrounding the Freemasons as a super secret society, and some of that might be true, but let's face it, the average biblical literalist isn't interested in history that doesn't include them. And most Evangelical groups believe the Freemasons to be a cult of Satanic worshipers. Yep, Freemasons allow members from any faith to join, thus it must be evil.

So, when these revisionists say that the US was founded on Christian principles, just tell them that our country was founded on the principles of the Enlightenment as embodied by the Freemasons. That'll piss 'em off even more. :evilgrin:

Edited title

[yellerpup]

1. The Native American tribes refused to bow to "authority"

because to them "all men are created equal". Free public education, that's a Cherokee concept that existed nowhere in the world until it existed here. (possible exception: the illegal hedgerow schools in the British Isles where teachers were rounded up and deported.) Our country was founded on the principles of the Enlightenment. My Cherokee grandpa was a Freemason.

Edited to close paren.

[geardaddy]

2. There you go!

:)

[genie_weenie]

3. No system outlives it's founders.

Every system of social thought dies with it's creator. Be it Religion, Government, Philospohy...

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. My brother Sufi was a Freemason

and told me that much of their thought was based on Sufi ideas--which just goes to show that a good idea finds many places to thrive.

[uberllama42]

5. I have read that thing about the Iroquois before...

but I have never had anybody present evidence for it. My history textbook said that they influenced parts of the Constitution but it did not say which. I know that that was included as the result of a lobbying campaign by the Iroquois Nation, and I've read one historian that says that that is completely without merit. I don't see it as likely myself. Let's remember that George Washington while President was guilty of a campaign of genocide against the Iroquios. They referred to him as the "Destroyer of Towns."

As for the Freemasons, I know that they include all faiths now, but my history teacher last year related an episode with his father. His father told him that he will never again be promoted at his company. My teacher asked him why not, and his father said it was because he did not have a Freemason's ring. That ring was proof that he was not a Catholic or a Jew, and thus was required for promotion above a certain level in that company.

[geardaddy]

6. Fair enough, but

I'm talking about the ideas that were espoused by the Freemasons during the founding of the country. Like any other organized group, the Freemasons are subject to the same hijacking of their membership.

[mikehiggins]

7. "not a catholic or a Jew"

In WWII a man named Rosenberg that I came to know well was a teenaged volunteer sent down south to train to be a soldier. He was a Jew from New York City in the deepest South and had just as much fun as you might expect in those days, in those places, with that name. Then his dad sent him the ring he had left at home and the kid put it on. In short order he was a corporal, and welcome wherever he went, Jew or not. Such is the "magic" of the mason ring.

I'm a Mason, the Master (ceo) of my Lodge is a hispanic Catholic. Two years ago the Master was a black baptist. The next Master will be an Italian Catholic. The Master last year was a Jew. Four years from now the Master will most likely be a Korean (don't know--or really care--what his religion is) and several of our new initiates took their oaths on the Koran.

Damn discriminatory secret society!

On the other hand, as to running the world? We're lucky if we can run a meeting ;^)

Move along folks. Nothing to see here

Oh yeah (edited to add this) I LOVE to tell the fundies about all the Masons present at the beginning, including major generals on both sides. Sometimes I tell them that the Brits threw the war so the colonists could set up a FreeMasonic republic in North America. THat REALLY burns their butts like a three foot flame. Just good clean harmless fun sez I.