Iraq did not dial 9-1-1 and ask us to come to their aid...

[texas1928]

Bush and his cronies invaded...

This is our mess...

We fucked up their country...

And to me it is our responsibility we will have to face to clean up this mess...

it is going to take the Democrats fixing what the Bush administration has done.

We destroyed Iraq and I beleive the old saying "you break it, you bought it".

Saying that the Iraqis have to take responsibility for this mess, in a way is wrong. We need to be helping them more than just sending more security. We need to help them get some sort of infrastructure going. And the Bush bunch has not done that.

I guess I am not understanding the Democratic leadership in saying that it is Iraq that has to stand up. Are they saying that they will help them, or what. To me it sounds like they are just going to turn their backs on them and leave it up to them to clean up our mess. And to me that is wrong.

Note: What I mean by our and we is the U.S. as a whole.

[spooked]

1. I was thinking the same thing today

Why should the Iraqis be given the responsibility of risking their lives to clean up the mess we created?!

[texas1928]

5. I just keep hearing th is off and on...

And I keep thinking "wait a minute, this mess is our fault."

And the Bushie's are not doing anythng to fix things. Except having security to prop up the "elected" government. They are not helping the Iraqis rebuild their cities and their power grids, water, and other necessities to a stabile life.

[Horse with no Name]

2. American troops CANNOT fix what American troops broke

We need to leave.
Send in multi-national peacekeeping forces.
And pay reparations.
Lots and lots of reparations.

[texas1928]

6. I dont blame the troops, they are just following orders...

But Bush is not doing anything to try and fix things.

And the way some Democrats have talked it sounds like they are not willing to try and help the Iraqis either. I agree on the reparations.

[Horse with no Name]

14. Don't misunderstand me

I don't blame the troops. The Iraqis, however, do.
Our presence is inflammatory.

[texas1928]

16. Yes it is, because we are an occupying force.

We attacked them without provocation, and are now creating havoc in their streets. Because one mad man perceived a threat that was not there. We turned loose a territorial fight that has been simmering for years. Colin Powell said it back in 2001 that Saddam was no threat what so ever due to our no fly zones and sanctions. But we kept Saddam from attacking the Kurds and the Shias. Now that we are no longer stopping them and have removed Saddam, the Sunnis are fighting to keep their control that they had under Saddam. We just ripped the bandage off a very old wound. Those people have been fighting each other since before Christ. And trying to bring democracy to that region is not going to work. They want to kill the other tribes and that is the way it will always be. We just gave them an opening. And the people who just want to live their lives and do the normal things are suffering for it. And they know that we are the reason they are suffering. And all we seem to want to do it but more bullets on it instead of putting money into funding clean water, getting their markets back up, bringing them lighting, and above all a feeling of security. America should be ashamed of itself. We have for years been known as the country that is there when someone needs a hand. And now we are no better than Russia of the 80's or Germany of the 30's and 40's. We attack countries with false pretenses. Vietnam should have taught them that, but all the ones in office making those decisions sat at home and did not see the horrors of that war. I agreed with Afghanistan, because that was where Bin Laden was being harbored by the Taliban. But, Iraq made no sense, the only thing I saw was OIL. Bush is worried about his legacy, yeah will his big OIL buddies have enough money to keep him comfortable when he retires, that is his legacy he is leaving this country and the world.

As for Democrats we need to make a change in the way Iraq is being handled. Start by getting more people in to help train Iraqis on how to keep themselves secure, get their power back on, repair their roads, stop the roaming bands of militia(this may mean amnesty), get their OIL flow back up(yes it means pumping OIL). Iraq can be a good country if handled right. But the people in handling positions now are not the ones for the jobs. How that is done may be dividing Iraq into three nation states. Like Yugoslavia.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. Further meddling is only making it worse. You are assuming that

we know better than they do how to fix their country after we fucked it up.

[texas1928]

7. We can't fix their country for them, but we can make it sound like we are going to...

Help them. At least try and make things better for them. I just get a feeling, that we are going to turn our backs on them, and that can hurt us worse.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. "I am from the US government and I am here to help you"

But first, we have send 20 marines in full battle dress to bust down your door & drag you away with a bag over your head all the while yelling "fuck you fuck you".

,

[mmonk]

4. He meant to say Iraqi National Congress

[texas1928]

8. Who?

Durbin?

[mmonk]

12. They did the dialing.

Not meaning Durbin meant anything other than he said.

[texas1928]

13. Well they were not in the country doing the dialing.

They were living in this country.

[mmonk]

24. Britian I think.

[frogcycle]

10. i agree we broke it

and deserve to be damned in world opinion for years to come. the fact is, most of the old republican guard now ARE the insurgents. so, in effect, we never did win. they ducked and are now waging war on our surrogates, the shia, whom they were repressing and waging war on before we got there.

but if the supposed peace-loving majority on both sides were to take it upon themselves to rat out every insurgent cell, every bomb-placer, acting as the advance team for airstrikes or raids, they could deal with this pretty fast. oh, it would be bloody, and they'd take a lot of casualties, have a lot of "collateral damage". but without that sort of determined war against the bad guys by those we are supposedly "protecting", we cant do shit. and with it, they dont need us - or at least not MORE of us. we could be cutting strength like mad if they even halfway pitched in.

yeah, we broke it, shouldnt have, but CANNOT undo that.

[texas1928]

17. It is messy, Hell our country did not start out clean.

our democracy has had it's messy moments. But the form of Democracy bush and his cronies want is not the Democracy the founding fathers put forth for us to follow. They beleived that everyday citizens could think for themselves. Hell Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt were a different kind of Republican. The Republicans we have now just want dumb sheep to follow every word they say and agree with that. You noticed how he threw 9/11 in there. He wants people to fear and by keeping us afraid, we do not think straight and agree. Bush leads by Fear, he is a bully, he and his cronies scared all those in congress, and then he frightened the American people, and when the Democrats finally started making head way on his policy, you saw how he reacted. He got mad, and that is what a bully does, when someone stands up to them they fluster about and get mad and then usually they back down, but he is president, and he created this mess. He is flustering about and trying every thing under the sun to keep from backing down. Even his old tricks of "9/11". If the Congress does bring about Impeachment hearings he will have a complete break down and it will be ugly.

[lvasconcellos]

11. It is really annoying to keep hearing

dems and repukes alike acting like the Iraqis are quarreling children. Yes, eventually they will have to make a political decision to power share, but it's because WE fractured their country! I've seen the SAME attitude toward the Katrina victims like "they should be over it by now"

[texas1928]

18. The republicans think because something is not on Fox it is not happening.

That is why Katrina, and NOLA is not in the news, they want people to think it is taken care of. That is why they are so up in arms about all the stories of the deaths in Iraq, it just pisses them off. They want it to just disappear. And it is not, they have to be reminded everyday that this mess they call responsible "christian values" governing is still there.

[Piperay]

15. VERY good points

you make and I agree. :thumbsup:

[texas1928]

19. thanks it has bothered me for a while.

[sandnsea]

20. Except we can't get out that way

There's plenty of middle-of-the-road people who won't leave unless they can convince themselves it's the honorable thing to do. These people blame everything on others, remember that. The only way to get out of Iraq is to blame them for their problems and let them 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps'. I don't think this is what a Democratic administration would be doing, but these stupid Republicans don't leave us with a lot of choices. I don't like that story line either, but nothing else was moving people to change course.

[LibDemAlways]

21. We owe them reparations.

I think the inhabitants of the Cradle of Civilization clearly don't want our continued "help" in terms of military might. We've done enough damage. What they need is many millions in aid so that they can rebuild their own infrastructure, which we so cavalierly destroyed.

Since our continued presence is only making the situation worse, we need to get our troops the hell out. Period. We also need to pull the plug on the contractors who are profiting obscenely from the war machine.

The only way we can help the Iraqis people is by withdrawing our troops, providing a hell of a lot of money, and working with the UN to find a diplomatic solution to the ongoing Civil War.

[ConsAreLiars]

22. Get the fuck out and stop killing Iraqis.

And you are right. Democratic spinners need to stop blaming the Iraqis for the destabilization of their society. That vile line of crap makes Dems look almost as repulsive as the Cons. But "we" submit our abject apologies for the mass murder that was committed "in our name" by monsters we (we the people) allowed to rule us. And try and incarcerate those who committed those crimes.

[LynnTheDem]

23. The Iraqis just want us GONE. Just OUT of THEIR nation. Right NOW.

If we do the right & moral thing, that's LEAVE Iraq. As the people of Iraq want us to do.

Us being there is making things worse and it's not our place to "White Man's Burden" the Iraqi people.

Congress/Dems et al want to call it "the Iraqis need to stand up" is of course blaming US's sins on the people of Iraq. The world knows it. The Iraqis know it. Even many Americans know it.

Whatever. It's word games.

People are dying. Do the right thing and do what the IRAQIS want;

IRAQ for IRAQIS; INVADERS GO HOME!

NOW!