The onus should not be put on the Iraqi's in our discussions in America

[madokie]

They had nothing to do with getting into this mess, nothing. They were in no way a real threat to anyone, saddam was a broken man and only he and bushco* didn't know that. Each death is criminal

[KarenS]

1. I agree wholeheartedly with you on this,,,,

many politicians on both sides of the aisle seem to be chastising the Iraqi people.

[madokie]

4. and they are more innocent than any of us are

the argument is always what the Iraqi need to do, what needs to happen is our asses out of there and fast and then all the other things that must be done like a day in court for the perpertrators of this illegal war, nothing less. Quite killing the brown skinned people, they have families like we do too for crissakes

[Solly Mack]

2. I agree

Blaming Iraq is just another way for America to avoid taking responsiblity for her criminal actions.

It's the same as saying, "America tried but Iraqis didn't want our help, so it's their fault"

[madokie]

5. Oh yeah, as in your face as anything to ever happen in the history of our planet

and no matter how much I would like to think I have nothing to do with it' I do. Kinda like the ole boy who puts a beware of dog sign on his gate, he's only opening himself up to a lawsuit at the least, criminal charges at the most. an admission of guilt before the deed is done. not smart.
What bothers me the most is nobody wants to talk about it not being an Iraqi problem that they caused as much as it is an American problem that we are guilty of and continue to do. People, innocent people are dying as we type for bush's* hubris

[Mandate My Ass]

3. It's disgusting

and criminal. These people have been brutalized and they're supposed to lick the shoes of their oppressors? Good lord. :eyes:

[madokie]

6. I can see that there will be no peace in Iraq until we have removed all vestiges of USA

no traces in the landscape or in the government

[gratuitous]

7. Only now . . .

As we get deeper into the muck, only now do quite a few Americans see what Saddam was doing as the dictator of Iraq. Ruthless? Cruel? You betcha. All that and more. And if he, a member of the country's Shiite minority was going to run the country, it was a way to go. The Sunni majority didn't like it, but thanks to that ruthlessness and cruelty, they knew that they didn't stand a chance of organizing. Too many cooks spoil the broth, goes the old saying, and taking too many people into your confidence when plotting to overthrow the dictator increases your risk of discovery exponentially. It could be a traitor or a mole; it could be a proud participant bragging about how there was a plot to take Saddam out; it could be someone's injudicious remark at the wrong time or in the wrong place; or any combination of the three, that does in your conspiracy.

But Bush decapitated Iraq with the invasion. Suddenly, all the pent up Sunni frustration and rage was popped open like an agitated champagne bottle. And anyone who has opened a bottle of champagne too fast knows what happens: You get a big, uncontrollable mess. Decades of suppression were lifted in a moment, with U.S. troops blundering through the country looking for the dictator. As soon as their backs were turned, the wholly predictable and inevitable time of payback began. And the Sunnis, a majority in Iraq (but a minority in other Muslim countries), didn't wait very long to start exacting their retribution.

Consider, even now on an allegedly sane place like Democratic Underground, how quickly an inocuous comment about ignorant rednecks in the South or mindless violence proceeding from the point of a gun draws the most hateful, vitriolic posts back and forth. Now consider these same arguments in real time, face-to-face, between people with some real grievances against each other, fueled by anger blessed as righteous by the social and religious leaders, and it's not too difficult to understand the murderous inevitability of the ensuing events.

And now Bush and his war cheerleaders want to pretend that all this revenge and payback and centuries of score-settling is really up to the people involved, and how they had nothing whatsoever to do with it. Why, who knew that Sunnis and Shiites didn't like each other very much?

Disingenuous? Yep. Cynical? Comes as naturally as breathing for these bastards. And lethally inept? Trifecta!

[madokie]

8. Yep, as well as I've read it said

being the president is serious business and we need a serious person at the helm, not a damn madman