So, is everyone ready to impeach these assholes yet?

[porphyrian]

Or are we going to continue arguing about semantics while they start another world war in our name?

[Warpy]

1. Of course we are, but it will take time and public hearings

to convince a lot of the folks who don't post on DU.

Most folks are disgusted, but the failed Clinton impeachment has left a sour taste in their mouths regarding the process.

Unless Stupid commits any of the outrages I have listed many times before, he's going to have to be faced with Congressional investigations to gain support for his removal from office.

[porphyrian]

23. It may take less time than you think. Regardless, we can agree that he must be stopped. - n/t

[AndyA]

2. IMPEACH

IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH IMPEACH

[billybob537]

3. Yup FIRE the LIAR n/t

[hashibabba]

10. Good bumper sticker, May it catch on all around the country.

[porphyrian]

24. Say it loud. - n/t

[Jack Rabbit]

4. !!

PELOSI FOR PRESIDENT IN 2007
(Whether she wants it or not)

[valerief]

6. Sounds fabulous to me! nt

[helderheid]

7. thanks again for that bumper sticker!!!!

[Jack Rabbit]

9. Your welcome

I'll have to get one to show to my grandchildren someday.

[porphyrian]

25. !!. - n/t

[deepthought42]

5. I've been ready since 2000...n/t

[porphyrian]

26. You and me both. - n/t

[mainer]

8. Only now. I wasn't ready until we attacked Iran's consulate.

I used to think that the political trauma to the country wouldn't make impeachment worth it. But now I see it as the ONLY WAY to avoid a war with Iran. This isn't about seeing the idiot in chief brought to justice. This is about preventing him from doing any more harm.

[helderheid]

11. absolutely.

[GOTV]

13. It will not avoid war without a conviction. Is impeach, acquit then invade really your plan?

I'm for removal from office and if we impeach now, that will not happen.

[porphyrian]

14. Your conclusion is not a given, no matter how many times you repeat it.

And actually it would be worth it even without a conviction to go on record, just as a letter of dissent is worth it in a bad Supreme Court ruling.

[GOTV]

16. I might agree with you if I though conviction was impossible...

... then I might be open to the "dissent" impeachment.

But I think we can actually flatten the bastard but there's no way we'll get to take 2 swings at him. So, by going at him now, you are preventing a successful impeachment that could happen later, in my view.

If my conclusion is not a given, can you name even ONE republican Senator that has expressed support for impeachment? Even one?

Actually, I don't think an impeachment that results in acquittal actually works as a dissent. In reality it makes Bush's innocence a part of the public record. That's not good.

And, further, I don't express my views any more often than you impeachment hawks express yours. I haven't started a single thread on the topic for example.

[porphyrian]

17. We don't have the luxury of waiting.

The benefit of beginning impeachment proceedings now is that it will REVEAL the facts to the public which we already know are true. When people finally have access to the truth, they will be infuriated at how much they've been lied to. They will support impeachment, if they don't already. Look at how many people have turned only today. Any Senator who would not convict once this occurs would be committing political suicide, and I can't name one of them who would do so, can you?

[GOTV]

34. We have no other option. An impeachment would fail if we did it now.

"The benefit of beginning impeachment proceedings now is that it will REVEAL the facts to the public"

No it wouldn't, because there have been no investigations to find new facts to reveal. If impeachment started today, it would be based on the facts that have already been revealed.

You know something that the rest of us don't? What is it?

These facts that have already been reported and have failed to move the people to demand impeachment. And as Fox and CNN reported on Congress re-hashing these issues in the process of impeachment it will be served with a full complement of corporate news spin. The details will be ignored and it will all be about terrorist loving Dems impeding our ability to protect ourselves.

"When people finally have access to the truth, they will be infuriated at how much they've been lied to."

They have access to the truth and most of them don't care. The downing street memos have been reported on, the people don't care. The treatment of Padilla has been reported, the people don't care. Torture has been reported, the people don't care. The ISG has published there report that there were no WMDs, the people don't care. Signing statements have been reported, the people don't care.

These things have all been reported. We care, they don't. I don't like it but that's the way it is today. I hope it will change but we need new information to make it change. We can get that information without giving the media something to bash us with, impeachment.

Reveal new truths, get the people demanding impeachment, then the media pounding on us for impeachment will backfire, because the people want it.

Think of Bush as a cancer. Now, no one wants to go through Chemotherapy. If you tried to force Chemo on someone, they'd fight you. First you need to convince them that they have cancer. When they understand they have cancer and chemo can help them, they'll ask for the chemo.

Right now America has cancer but is in denial. The majority of polls show that. If we force impeachment on them they will fight it. They will not listen to us explaining that they need the impeachment while they are fighting it. And we will fail because the Senators will not vote against their party AND against their constituents at the same time.

"they will be infuriated at how much they've been lied to."

The facts have been reported, they don't care. we need new facts.

"They will support impeachment, if they don't already."

They don't support impeachment now. The majority of polls show this. After all Bush has done, that we know of, they don't care. Going over the facts we have again in the context of an impeachment they haven't asked for will not convince them.

"Any Senator who would not convict once this occurs would be committing political suicide, and I can't name one of them who would do so, can you?"

This is the one point we agree on. As I said, a Senator may vote against his constituents to vote with his party, it happens all the time. A Senator may vote against his party to vote with his constituents, that also happens all the time. I won't say it never ever happened but I would not count on a single Senator voting against his party AND his constituents at the same time.

So right now, given that the majority of polls say people do not want an impeachment, not one GOP Senator will support impeachment. To do so would be to vote against his party and against his constituents.

And going ahead with impeachment now, when the people have not asked for it, will not make them view the reported Bush crimes differently then when they heard the facts the first time.

If you want a successful impeachment, you need Senatorial support. If you want their support, you need the people to demand impeachment. If you want people to demand impeachment, you need to give them more reasons, because what's been revealed so far has not done it. If you want them to listen to you, it's got to seem like you're listening to them.

This is one things the Dems are doing right this time.

[porphyrian]

37. Oh, stop.

New facts don't need revealing because the ones already available are enough if they aren't lied about.

I don't know anything you don't except that you are being stubborn beyond rationality.

Again, if we can present the facts truthfully, impeachment will happen. If you don't hear the growing cry, you're deaf, and intentionally so.

Repeat.

Repeat.

Moot.

Polls say what those paying for them want them to. Listen to people, not polls.

Again, you must be intentionally deaf.

Yes, and we will have it by the time it gets to the Senate, if it even needs to be pursued that far.

Stop being so fucking dense. Do you work for them or something?

[GOTV]

41. Ignore the polls, ignore the people...

... I'd agree with you if we were talking about one poll. I'm talking about all the polls of last year that I know of. I've seen 2 that show small minorities for impeachment. I've seen about 5, from differing organizations that show small minority support.

But certainly you know better.

"New facts don't need revealing because the ones already available are enough if they aren't lied about."

So how will you prevent the old facts from being lied about all over again? No one's going to stop watching the news they're already comfortable with. Take any fact, no WMDs for instance. People learned about it through whatever news source they watch and they don't care enough to impeach over it. Now you're going to go through all that again and people will still get the facts through the same old corporate media again and hear the same old lies again.

So why will it be different this time? Because you want it to be?

"Listen to people, not polls."

Tell me, how do YOU listen to 300,000,000 people. Or, when you say the "people", do you mean your friends? Or do you mean us here at DU? Or the people that call into the programs that YOU listen to? How do get a better impression of the public sentiment without polls?

"Yes, and we will have it by the time it gets to the Senate, if it even needs to be pursued that far."

Wait. Do you even know how impeachment works? It has to get to the Senate to do anything at all.

Maybe you need to review some background on impeachment.

"Stop being so fucking dense."

I'm not the one who thinks he can listen to 300,000,000 people. What you hear as dense if just sticking to the facts to the best that they can be determined. I'm talking about the way things are, not how I want them to be. When the data changes, my story will change. It's not being dense, it's being consistent.

"Do you work for them or something?"

I want a successful impeachment, so what does that tell you?

[porphyrian]

42. It tells me you think your way is the only way. I think you're wrong. - n/t

[GOTV]

44. I have my one opinion, and you have your one opinion, so why imply there's a difference between us?

At least I'm answering your points, but you've been no more willing to be flexible in your view than have.

[porphyrian]

45. I'm sure there are many differences between us, and many similarities.

However, I am not the one doing the badgering with the same question repeatedly, despite the answers given. That would be you. You aren't wrong for your opinion, you're wrong for accepting no other. I have no problem with you holding your opinion, only with your insistence that I'm wrong for not believing it.

[porphyrian]

27. Welcome aboard. - n/t

[demrabble]

12. I'm Ready

I've been ready for a long time to impeach the entire lot of them.

We just cannot afford to wait until the next election.

They didn't listen to the last election. They have to go now.

[Quantess]

18. I've been ready.

(You beat me to it.)
Welcome to DU!

[porphyrian]

29. I entirely agree. - n/t

[ChiciB1]

15. Kick His Lying Ass Out AND The Dick Along With Him!!

I wasn't up for Impeachment until recently, now I can't wait. I wonder IF it will happen.

I doubt it myself, but wouldn't it be "LOVERLY?"

[porphyrian]

30. I think it may just happen, Miss Doolittle. - n/t

[ChiciB1]

33. Very Cute! And I Wish I May, I Wish I Might!!

I use that phrase a lot though!

[specimenfred1984]

19. Nah, let's set up more torture camps instead

out a few more CIA agents, keep spying on Americans, let a few more U.S. cities drown and then fight our way through a propaganda network of Faux whores, stink tanks, faked intel and cronyism before we do shit!

[porphyrian]

20. Right. I knew I was wrong. - n/t

[Sapphire Blue]

21. Call your Rep & the House Judiciary Committee:

Contact your US Representative - IMPEACH BUSH: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3090946

Time to call the House Judiciary Committee RE: IMPEACHMENT: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3094842

[porphyrian]

22. Absolutely, and thanks for the links.

;)

[mtnester]

28. They have ALMOST used enough rope

patience my friend..just a little bit more.

[porphyrian]

31. Restraint is for those in Congress, not us.

You know it's coming, though, don't you?

[mtnester]

32. Yeah, I can smell it

because the stink we know is nowhere NEAR the stink we are going to know.


He will step over the clearly defined, always watched line within the next 45 days is my guess.

[smoogatz]

35. I was ready in January, 2001.

What's the fucking holdup?

[SaveOurDemocracy]

36. LOL ... me too.

:toast:

[porphyrian]

38. People like the guy above who is on our side (I think) but just won't accept impeachment. - n/t

[tavalon]

39. I was in the impeach now crowd from the get go.

[porphyrian]

40. It appears some will resist it to their own demise. I'm glad that's not you. - n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

43. Impeach is a political process

It's time to charge them with treason and throw them in the slammer without bail until the trial's over.

[porphyrian]

47. Let's do both and see which happens first. - n/t

[Senator]

46. keek