Why is the "surge" is ridiculously stupid? - IEDs

[better2know]

If anyone remembers, our soldier-citizens were pulled back to the bases over a year ago because of the terrible carnage from IEDs.
With more troops and more time spent outside the fence it will probably be that much worse, to expect otherwise is insane.
If we had confiscated the Iraqi ammo dumps there might have been a chance of preventing this tragic horrible joke on the Soldiers, the Iraqis, and the American people.

[lapfog_1]

1. The ammo dumps are now of no importance.

The insurgents (both sides) are getting top of line IED manufacturing material from all over the world, probably including arms dealers here in the US.

At one point, right after the fall of Baghdad, we had a chance. We needed to keep the Iraqi army intact, we needed to set up reconstruction USING IRAQIS for the contracts, we needed a force of 250,000 to patrol the streets and keep any idea of insurgency or sectarian death squads to a minimum. And above all, we needed to make it clear that we would be leaving by a date certain... that the Iraqis had to organize their nation in whatever manner they thought was right as quickly as possible, and that they needed a oil revenue sharing agreement in place between the factions. That would have had a chance of success, but only a chance.

Now, with the new rules of engagement, and with only as many troops in Iraq as 6 to 9 months ago, we have no chance. Expect to see not 3 to 4 American troops dead every day, but 12 or more, possibly much more. I expect that at some point, an entire American battalion, attached to an Iraqi army brigade, will be amBUSHed by 2000 or more insurgents. A Mogadishu moment writ large. That will be the end of the "surge". Hopefully THAT will be enough to bring an end to the Bush/Cheney presidency. Not that I want this to happen, but the wheels have been set in motion already.

[GreenZoneLT]

3. You'd be surprised

They're still shooting a lot of that Saddam-era crap at us, which is fortunate, because half of it is so old and rusty that it doesn't go off. A few months ago, a rocket nicked the corner of a trailer 25 meters from mine; fortunately a dud that just dug a big hole in the sand.

[lapfog_1]

4. Given the escalations that are coming

I expect that the better funded insurgent groups and other organizations are now getting their equipment from arms dealers, they have the funding coming in, and, as you say, the old stuff is getting to be unreliable (and likely more unstable as well). I have no doubt that some ragtag groups will use anything they can get their hands on, but I expect the others to upgrade as we make this "push" into the streets of Sadr city (if we, in fact, actually do that). They will most likely find more support from people in the region (on both sides, in the form of money or arms) to match any perceived escalation on our part.

[GreenZoneLT]

2. Not quite right

The troops have been based on big FOBs because of snipers and VBIEDs (vehicle-borne IEDs, aka car bombs); it's easier to protect one big base than a bunch of little bases. The roadside IEDs have actually become more ubiquitous because of this, because when you're spread out more, you see more, and can engage the people who are planting the bombs more frequently. It's not like we're just sitting in those FOBS; we're constantly patrolling, but the patrols go back to the FOBs to sleep and whatnot.

This is a cultural thing, too; the Army's peacetime experience in Europe has it listening to the force-protection people first. If the force-protection guys had their way, we'd be living on FOBs out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by five-mile dead zones. Accomplishing nothing, of course, but that's not the force-protection guys' problem, is it?

Also, Iraq has extremely leaky borders; there would be far fewer attacks if the ammo dumps had been secured, but you'd still see a lot of stuff coming in from Iran, Syria and Jordan.

[better2know]

6. what GZ-LT said

The dumps and the bases are probably a distraction to the main point I was trying to make.

More soldiers going door to door means more death and destruction from snipers and IEDs.

This will only escalate the situation on all sides.

[Roland99]

5. Here's why it's ridiculous

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3100875&mesg_id=3100875

Didn't work before. Won't work now.

[PATRICK]

7. A question about alternative

meanings of the surge.

Is the number significant in preparations for Iran action? Likely not at all as an offensive force in any way shape or form. But how do the numbers stack up for: putting significantly more troops in harm's way as a trigger for "protective" pre-emptive(or reactionary) action by the CIC, protecting Green Zone and other vital occupation interests in the event of an Iraqi uprising reaction, putting so many troops deep in Iraq's interior no evacuation can be carried out(we're already strangely cut off from any emergency withdrawal), antagonizing while inviting casualties(one of several recent affronts)to provoke incident/response war catalysts, a mammoth distraction while the small things advance quickly the machinery of a strike against Iran.

Discussion of the useless slaughter proposed by this surge is easy to win for peace activists and Iraq specialists alike, were it not for the unstopped, unceasing parallel motion against Iran.

What the Bush team has really jettisoned. ALL forms of diplomacy or veneers of legality, all attempts to conjoin Congress, most strong attempts to create a new war propaganda, any hope at all this time in a an Army solution. What is left is violence and super weapons and a massive number of provocations and bluff as a cloud cover for the clear intention of moving the bloody agenda.

When Bush calmly smiles the fix is in, he believes. When irritated, he is losing and things are going against his imperious design. When he somberly pales and goes in hiding it is quite possible a terrible horror is about to occur which he nonetheless wants or has done nothing to stop- or both. We have yet to see his reaction to real fear of being held to account. The odds are this is till far from his consciousness- as much as that he could be wrong or a criminal, thanks to Uncle Dick's counsel and that of other trusted lickspittles. Many of those showing rational fear of the last sort have resigned or been fired. The last dream, all others rancid and spoiled, was always the final goal, offensively speaking. To centralize and wield all high tech easy solutions into the hands of a dictator who spies without limit, kills with a button and simply gives orders.

And goes on vacation without being bothered so by the technicalities of a dying world.

[better2know]

8. Yes Patrick - ridiculously stupid for the nation

but not necessarily stupid for the BFEE, the War Party, and other treasonous (or evil) parties.

Highlighting the stupidity can sometimes illuminate other nasty obscurities.

The resolve we show today will reflect our determination to stop this war's further expansion.