Surviving (and thriving) on $12,000 a year

[Herman Munster]

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/LearnToBudget/SurvivingAndThrivingOn12000AYear.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0

I'll be living on just over $1,000 a month this year. That doesn't sound like much -- and it isn't -- yet I plan not just to live on it, but to build a savings account.

My 2007 "income," the money I can actually count on, will be $12,084. I know this because it consists of alimony and a portion of a school grant. (I went back to college last year; the grant covers tuition and books with a little left over.) I already know my big-ticket annual costs, too: rent of $6,300 and $1,200 for car insurance. Subtract these from my income and I'm left with $382 a month for food, utilities, clothes, medical deductibles and co-pays, gasoline, renter's and life insurance and any help I give my daughter, who lives on even less than I do.

It's not what I have, but how much of it I can keep. To paraphrase Ben Franklin, every dollar I don't spend is a dollar I have earned. So when I think I need something, I ask, "Can I do without this?" Often I find I can. If I can't, then my next question is . . .

How can I get it free, or almost free? The obvious answers are sites like Craigslist.org and thrift shops, especially ones like Value Village that offer coupons and half-off sales. My 99-cent clock-radio wakes me up every morning just as efficiently as a high-tech alarm from The Sharper Image. Rummage sales are swell, too; my church has an annual sale called "Superfluity" (I love that name) at which I bought my desk for $4 and a small chest of drawers for $1. I also buy Christmas and birthday gifts at Superfluity and an annual "500-family" rummage sale. No one has to know that that hardback bestseller under the tree cost you only 50 cents.

Enough is as good as a feast. I love to eat. I don't love paying for it. Because I don't have a "regular" job of at least 20 hours a week, I don't qualify for food stamps. So I shop very, very carefully, and I go to the food bank. Most weeks I can count on potatoes, apples, bread and a can or two of vegetables. Some lucky weeks I get milk, orange juice, pasta, tomatoes, rice or a small package of meat. I cook a lot of beans and stews, and I'm adequately fed -- maybe not as richly or as conveniently as I'd like, but well enough to keep me going.

Every day is casual Friday! When my jeans are in tatters I buy a "new" pair at Value Village (one pair cost me just $1.63, and it was new -- still had the department-store tags on it). I spend $15 or less on running shoes from clearance tables. I've bought a couple of thrift-store tops, but mostly get by with shirts I've had for ages. (Hint: The clothes dryer takes years off the life of your duds. Get a drying rack.) Some days I wish I looked nicer. Most days it doesn't bother me, and I doubt it'll bother anyone else, since students at my school have been known to wear flannel PJs to class. Bonus: When you dress the way I do, panhandlers hardly ever ask you for money.

Announce my intentions. Time and again I have found that when I need something I should "put it out in the universe," which is also known as "prayer." One night last fall, squinting over my homework, I realized I needed more light in the apartment. A day later, a halogen floor lamp landed in the Dumpster outside my window. Recently my umbrella got cranky about opening. The next week I was given a high-quality bumbershoot as a thank-you gift for helping with a campus blood drive. Coincidences? Maybe.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. A K a month?

A princely sum. You would not believe what I live on.

Yeah, I miss a lot of meals, but I am surviving here in The Bush Economic Miracle.

[liberaldemocrat7]

86. Look for freecycle. They run mailing lists where you can get free items too.

Free works well. :)

[twilight_sailing]

2. Oh great,

another "poor" student.

I am SO impressed.

Call me when you are 50.

[Herman Munster]

3. the woman in the article

is 48. Read it.

[twilight_sailing]

10. My mistake then.

Sorry.

[twilight_sailing]

15. but I gotta say

6 paragraphs were quoted. Sue me.

[kevinbgoode]

64. I'm went back to school at around her age. ..

and while I've been lucky enough to survive on a bit more than she does, it was quite an adjustment. . .and I'll have an awful debt to pay when its all over.

Still, I really admire those of you who learn how to cut corners. I grew up very lower working class, and was used to hand-me-downs and a lot of spam or peanut butter or potato cakes for meals, and when I grew up I vowed that I would live better. Well, I did for several years..and in many ways, I don't do too badly now.

It's difficult to put much money away, but that's part of the experience - I certainly use a change jar that nets me about $180 a year - a major windfall during the poorest time of the school year. Second hand furniture can be perfectly fine - especially if you know you are transient anyway and may pass it on to another needy student when you depart.

As for food, shopping at Aldi and Save-A-Lot and using every little discount card/coupon I can use is helpful - and it's also helpful to sign up for things like Student Advantage cards ($20 a year) which give a variety of discounts on tons of things, including 15% off almost all Amtrak and Greyhound travel. Hell, I have an AARP card now too, and use that for better hotel discounts when I have to go to a convention. . .it pays for itself in one trip. My car is almost ten years old and still runs pretty well though it is cranky and needs maintenance work. I expect to keep it another few years. I bought a bicycle and started riding that more often, both as alternative transportation and as exercise, and sometimes walk to class...about 35 minutes. You do the cheap or free movies at school for outings, or the free or cheap tickets to football/basketball games...use the student center big screen TVs for special events and don't waste money in the bars I think young people spend more money in the clubs and parties than anything else during their college years.

There are other ways to squeeze that dollar, even if you aren't a student. If you have very little social life (often because you are poor), look for programs open to the public or presentations which have refreshments as a nice treat. You can borrow DVDs from the library, and if you have a network of friends, from each other. I know people who rent a movie and make sure it gets around to three families before it goes back. . .
Getting away is also a creative venture, especially if you don't or can't run miles up on the car. But Amtrak runs some amazing sales (right now, I could travel RT from my college town and Chicago for about $52 - and that's nearly 650 miles. Greyhound runs that Student discount AND announces getaway fares sometimes...lately you can travel from Chicago to Minneapolis for about $50 RT. Cheaper than driving, and mass transit is amazingly inexpensive. In Chicago, you can get a two day unlimited mass transit pass for about $9. . . good for buses and the elevated. . .

You can not only get student discounts for movies, but anyone (non-students too) with a Kerasotes Theater (mostly in the Midwest) can go online and sign up for a FREE Five Buck Club card. Every week, the theater chain emails the movies playing that are eligible for $5 club members, and you can go to any feature at any time for...five bucks.

Freebies are good ideas as well. Stretching money for laundry detergent and stuff? Sign up for every free sample you can find online, and then dump all the stupid extra spam email you get from the companies. I've done laundry, shampooed my hair, had shower soap. . .

You can recycle your printer cartridges at Staples - and save $3 on the replacement.

And some towns have this. . .um. . .freecycle.org affiliate (I might have first read about this on here, actually) in which people give away items they dont' need any longer and you can pick them up. . .that link is at:

http://www.freecycle.org/

I've only looked at postings on my local affiliate, but it's a very helpful group of people. . .

[twilight_sailing]

22. Your turn, Herman.

[Herman Munster]

23. my turn for what?

to get into idiotic fight about the number of paragraphs I quoted with an anonymous internet person?

I got better things to do with my time.

[twilight_sailing]

26. Me too, buddy.

Enjoy your time sniping at people smarter than you are.

[twilight_sailing]

27. And more honest.

[twilight_sailing]

28. and more brave.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Right.

Of course, she'll always have her bank account to fall back on when she gets sick.

[Warpy]

5. I lived that way for the last 3 years

only it was $800/month when the mortgage took the first $560. I didn't ask my old truck to do much and either walked or rode an electric scooter for errands. If something broke, I fixed it, found it in a thrift shop, or did without. One of the closer thrift shops magically came up with everything I needed when I needed it, and that was a help. I ate whole foods, prepared simply. I've been poor several times in my life and I know it can be done.

However, it gets old fast. Thrift shop clothing already has a lot of wear miles on it and doesn't last long. Repairs on the house just got put off and I hoped there were no hungry termites in the vicinity. I was lucky (if you can call it that) that my last surviving relative, my Pop, died last winter and I inherited his estate. You are lucky in that you are going to school and there's a light at the end of your tunnel, too.

Most folks in this country who survive on a patchwork of low paid, dead end and thankless jobs don't get that light. For one reason or another, they don't have the wherewithal to go to school and they're certainly plumb out of relatives with money. The grinding poverty I was in and you are in is their permanent lot in life and there is no exit.

This is why I am a socialist. This is why I vote for Democrats. My taxes may go up. I don't care. I know poverty. I think we can afford to get most people out of it and into decent lives.

For the record, I'd rather still be poor and have my Pop with me.

[twilight_sailing]

12. I am just a BIG Warpy fan.

[stevedeshazer]

19. Warpy, you just said it

My Pop died, too.

I have a dead-end job.

I make less than half what I made before 9/11.

There are millions of us.

We outnumber them.

Torches and pitchforks are in order.

[JeffR]

20. Deserves its own thread, Warpy

Well said.

[liberaldemocrat7]

88. Where did that picture come from. It would look great on a bumper sticker. LOL.

I would like to get permission to use it.

[JeffR]

93. Feel free

It's a collaboration between my twisted imagination & Photoshop.

[liberaldemocrat7]

94. Thank you.

.

[kevinbgoode]

67. I really admire you. . .

I've usually just not been able to bring myself to wear thrift store clothing. . .but I've scoured the racks of the drastically discounted stuff at every store around...I mean, down to $5 shirts and $15 jeans. . .even if it makes me a little out of style.

Entertainment is sometimes the hard part - though at school there is always work to do. And you are right about those who have no outlet or wealthy relatives or chance to better themselves...it's an unending cycle. I've lived in fear of being homeless, and have been lucky so far, but every American who lives paycheck to paycheck should become very aware of how close anyone is to that reality.

Being single again, I've learned to downsize a lot - and LIKE it. Less maintenance, less hassle. . .but I'm not maintaining a house, just an apartment. I think the weirdest adjustment is the feeling of disconnect from that consumer-crazy life. . .and the worry about not having insurance or ways to take care of a health emergency. So you are right - students at least have health insurance while in school. . .and lots of extra discounts.

And I agree - we CAN afford to get most people out of poverty and into decent (meaning self-respecting) lives.

And sorry about your Pop's passing. . .nothing can replace that for anyone.

[Warpy]

79. Thanks, but one thing to remember about thrift shops

is that people who are quite well off donate to them rather than go to the trouble of having yard sales. One can find the occasional high quality piece of clothing with little wear, and that's a great deal. My only real complaint was that everything I got REEKED of dryer sheets and I had to wash the smell out as soon as I got home.

I'm not wearing thrift shop clothing as I type this, although half my dress for failure outfit is a sweater I knitted myself. I am sitting in a thrift shop chair on a rug I wove. My walls are adorned with thrift shop art, good quality signed and framed prints.

Don't be wary of thrift shops. Most clean the clothing before they put it out for sale and quite often the quality is better than the junk you find in big box stores or even malls.

The thrift shop gave and the thrift shop taketh away. I do at least one run a month making donations. I am leaving their items for sale to the people who are still as poor as I was. I miss it, though.

[The Flaming Red Head]

92. Thrift stores have nice clothes too

My son has Christian Dior, Doche & Gabana, Perry Ellis, Louis Vitton, Gucci etc hanging in his closet all purchased for a dollar each at the United Methodist Thrift store.

[tandot]

6. $525 for rent a month? She must not live in California

I've made it on less than that...but that was when I was still living in Oklahoma.

Her car insurance is $1200 a year? What is she driving? I pay $650/year for my Toyota Corolla.

[Herman Munster]

7. she lives in Seattle

And that's not a cheap part of the country. You can still find $600 1 bedrooms pretty much anywhere. You must make compromises though. The apartment is probably in a less than desirable area, or has other problems with it.

[eridani]

34. If she's in Seattle, that's what just the basics cost for car insurance costs

I pay $1100 a year for one 1990 Honda Civic.

[Jacobin]

38. maybe she doesn't have collision coverage

[tandot]

61. Well, $1200 a year seems quite a lot

for someone who wants to make it on $1000 a month

I pay about $54/month for my car (about $650/year).

[kevinbgoode]

65. Wow...I'm in a small Illinois college town. . .

and I'm paying about $600 a year..and that's with comprehensive or..full coverage on a nine year old Mirage.

[karlrschneider]

42. My car insurance is $11 a month. Seriously.

...

[tandot]

59. $11 a month???

How did you do that?

I've never had an accident or any ticket and I am driving a small car. $11 - WOW!

[karlrschneider]

62. I don't know, I just signed up with the company and that's what they charge.

And yes, it's a legitimate insurance company...I pay $70 every six months. It's minimum coverage,
just what's required by state law - no collision or comprehensive. I have never paid for those coverages since I first owned a car 49 years ago* - it was a gamble I admit but it has paid off since
I never had a serious loss that I had to cover myself; I figure I'm far enough ahead of the game that it has paid off handsomely.

* I should say I've never financed a car, I've always paid cash and owned them outright...I know that
makes a big difference.

[tandot]

66. That is a great deal.

I had to finance my car in 2001, but it is now paid off. However, I have over 120,500 miles on it now and might have to think about getting a newer one. Since I owned my Corolla, I never had any repairs. Just regular oil changes and one tunep-up. I've driven my car for 70,000 miles without any problems. And it is giving me 36 miles per gallon.

I just don't have the cash to pay for a car...I'll have to finance my next one

[liberaldemocrat7]

89. My insurance for my electric motorcycle costs $80 a year.

From GEICO.

[OnionPatch]

50. Maybe she's had a speeding ticket

Happens to the best of us. :shrug:

[tandot]

60. I am 42 and I never even got a parking ticket

Not that I don't speed...but I am obsessive about looking in the mirror and looking out for cops.

I am driving a '98 golden/silver Toyota Corolla, very low key. We have a speed limit of 65 on our highways and I am usually driving between 70 and 80 mph. If you are driving a car that is bright yellow, red, or black, you are screwed (especially if it is a sporty car). I've noticed that even if I am driving over 10 miles above the speed limits, our troopers seem to just ignore me.

[OnionPatch]

69. My car is bright red

I am usually the slowest driver on the road but I always get caught in speed traps, places where the limit is ridiculously low, (on purpose, I think!) :banghead: Since I don't really speed often, I'm not in the habit of looking out for them, either, so I'm an easy target.

[Frank Cannon]

8. That's great, comrade! Life is terrific in the new Soviet Union!

You know, there was a time in the United States where an elementary school teacher could support a family on that one income--including sending their kids to (GASP) college. Strange, but true.

I appreciate your story of survival in the Bush economy, and I sincerely congratulate you on your success, but I'd be a lot more impressed if you found a way to make fuel and food out of old shoes or the furniture in your home.

[Art_from_Ark]

97. That certainly wasn't the case in Northwest Arkansas in the 1960s

The going rate for an elementary school teacher with 3-4 years experience there was approximately $320/month (take home) in 1967-68. Even given the lower cost of living back then, there was little, if anything, left at the end of the month.

[Frank Cannon]

100. Sure, it wasn't true everywhere

But it was certainly more common than it is now.

[Gormy Cuss]

9. I was with her until she talked about food.

Going to the food bank rather than spending that $20 a month she gives to the church as charity just struck me as a bit perverse. Overall, she does make some good points about how it's possible to live for less as a single adult with no kids and I guess that is the point of the article. Many people don't consider shopping in thrift stores or trash picking as ways to make ends meet, or consider that little splurges like a can of soda can add up quickly. She also made a point of acknowledging that this is voluntary poverty and intended for the short two years it will take to finish her college course, something too many 'starving student' stories fail to note.

[Pithlet]

41. I would give her the benefit of the doubt, but

she seemed just a little too smug and self congratulatory. It could be me, but this had a touch of "People who struggle just have high expectations and/or just aren't thrifty enough." Bleh.

[Gormy Cuss]

45. I agree,

but then I had problems with Barbara Ehrenreich's side comments in "Nickled and Dimed" too, even though I recommend her book to others because it's so accessible for people who have no exposure to that reality.

This writer responded in the reader comments and doesn't seem too full of herself, so I'm willing to give her credit for the effort.

[Pithlet]

49. I admit I didn't read her comments.

So, I could be off base in my assessment of her intentions.

[fishwax]

90. glad to hear another who was irked by that book

Everyone I know raved about it. I read it, and I'll admit that I've raved about it too. But it sure got under my skin sometimes, both for the "gasp! there are people that have to do ..." shock regarding some of the things that very normal people have to do on an everyday basis to get by. Like you, I've recommended it to others, and for the same reasons, but it grated on me by the end (my wife couldn't even finish it).

[hfojvt]

74. she gives $20 a month to a church?

Getting her food from a food bank does not sound legitimate. One place I lived the food pantry would only let you use it 4 times a year. It's not supposed to be a semi-permanent food source.

Also the snippet leaves out that her $12,000 income is apparently tax free. On my $12,000 income I pay $918 in FICA taxes and another $480 goes to my pension. Another $210 a month goes to my half of my health insurance. Any wage income over $5,250 a year will also make you pay some state income taxes in Kansas, and I will only avoid Federal Income Taxes by putting $400 or so in my IRA.

I just cannot bring myself to give money to a church when I read that the pastor is making $70,000 a year. In my brief study of churches, it seemed that only 10% of their budget went to help the needy. The $20 a month would be better served going directly to a poor person, such as her daughter.

[Gormy Cuss]

75. Technically, she probably qualifies for the food bank on an income basis.

Many urban food banks offer clients once a month pick ups if the food bank has enough donations. The three that I know best (in CA and in the Northeast) all have monthly allotments. I don't understand the mindset that thinks taking charity from a food bank is a valid way to save money that she uses to contribute to her own charitable interest, regardless of what that charity is. That's why I said it seems perverse to me.

[Delphinus]

101. Some food banks also make you earn credits

to receive the food by doing community service-type work.

[Rosemary2205]

11. I think this is Repug propaganda.

$382 a month that includes health care premiums and costs, utilities, food, gasoline, life and renters insurance?

I appreciate that the story admits the woman has to rely on the food bank to get by - that's at least something. But this crap about how delightful it is that her daughter lives on even less, like it's some sort of wonderful adventure than anyone can do with joy and delight is just assinine.

Anyone who's been there knows it's pure hell, especially if they have to support kids on that.

I'm sorry, but I'm offended by they way this story was put forward - the tone of it.

[sandnsea]

14. Don't be sorry

The woman is a fuckwit.

[electprogdems]

24. i am with you rosemary

reeks of repuke on so many levels.

OP should start including prayers of gratitude that she is healthy in her dailies.

I pay $370 a month for health insurance, and last year, I shattered my elbow, and still had to pay almost $4,000 in emergency room care and other items that were not covered by insurance, including deductibles and co-pays.

[Warren Stupidity]

54. I agree.

I got to: well I just pray and manna from heaven falls on my lap, and I think of the DUer who posted here yesterday about her daughter getting diagnosed with MS and I'm thinking, 'what, does this supposed supernatural deity toss the halogen lamp in the dumpster for one person and then balance that off by inflicting a hideous chronic illness on somebody else?' Feh. Living in Seattle on 12K a year has got to be a damn nightmare. I don't believe one word of that tale.

[sweetheart]

98. Yep, getting the masses used to poverty... be thankful

Learn to pray for god to leave you furniture in the garbage and be thankful
that no traffic tickets, medical incidents or life complexities impinge on that fragile budget...
.
and god forbid a job is lost, or life circumstances change like they always do.

Oh immaculate masses, get used to poverty, prepare for it; the salesman have a lot of it to share around.

[sandnsea]

13. Try that with a job

Where there are no casual Fridays. I hate idiots like this, they have no friggin' idea. It's a lark for this nincompoop. Not so much of a lark when you need $300 a month in medicine, regular medical testing, car repairs, glasses, hearing aids, and you don't think it's somebody elses responsibility to feed you. God I'd like to slap this *(&^#.

[LSK]

16. Health Insurance costs???

:shrug:

[Herman Munster]

17. she probably gets cheap student subsidized health insurance

[twilight_sailing]

32. Yeah, take the word of a guy

who couldn't out think a 7-11 clerk.

Good idea.

[WiseButAngrySara]

83. What is your problem? Munster needs to use the new ignore

feature.

[uppityperson]

87. what is your problem? Continued snarking at each post is not a good idea

[sandnsea]

18. School insurance

Some schools do have fairly decent health policies, and health clinics as well. I remember I got dental care when I went to school in Montana. Still, there's a big difference in getting by for a short time and living on a low-income job with kids.

[SoCalDem]

21. Hey kids, it's our old pal Ann Ecdotal again

and "bumbershoot"???

was this thing written in wartime Merry Olde England?

the sad facts missing from this "uplifting" are the ones that always "shoot you down" when you are in this income level..

childcare
commuting to work costs
unexpected calamities

and another thing..

MOST students live this way. Hand to mouth hand-me-down living is the NORM for most students, but once we "grow up" and have families, some people still have to live with those incomes..

for a more realistic accounting of $12K living:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3484246

SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Apr-15-05 06:27 AM Original message

You make $12k a year, rent a crappy apartment, drive a clunker,

and yet our "media" would have us believe that "your" main concerns are :

1. selection of judges

2. whether a woman you never met has a feeding tube re-inserted

3. making sure that only "super-rich" people can still file bankruptcy

4. making sure that super-rich people can hold their family "booty" untaxed for generation after generation

5. making sure that public schools get little, if any federal funding

6. making sure that only rich people can use the judicial system when they are injured or defrauded

7. making sure that no woman has any reproductive choice

8. making sure that your employer has easy access to off-shoring YOUR job if he cannot get you to work for less

9. making sure that insurance companies are "well taken care of", even if it means that YOU cannot afford medical insurance

10. making sure that oil wells go into the Arctic reserve, even though it's a "drop in the bucket" that will probably end up in Japan..TEN years from now.

11. pushing for private accounts for social security, even though ALL reliable experts say this is a recipe for DISASTER

12. making sure that God is EVERYWHERE..in courthouses, schools, TV, radio..

13. making sure that gay people can never marry

14. making sure that "our borders" are "mexican-free zones"

It simply amazes me how such uneducated people are "experts" on tort reform, and energy and taxes, and social security, by virtue of regurgitating talking points.

I have to hope that in their day-to-day lives, these people are really thinking about.. :

1. How much Kraft mac 'n cheese will $5 food stamps buy?

2. How can I pay $125 a week daycare on a take home check of $220

3. Why does my crappy apartment cost so damned much?

4. How will I pay a $400 repair bill on a car that's worth $800?

5. Just how high of a fever does the baby have to have, before I break the budget and take him to a doctor?

6. At $2.75 a gallon, how many days will I have to hitch a ride to work?

7. How many part-time jobs are "enough"..2? 3?..

8. When you work 2-3 jobs, and pay for childcare, when do you have "family-time"?

9. How can MY values be instilled in my kids when they never see me?

10. How can a marriage survive when both parents work all the time, and never have any quality time together or with the family?

11. How can Grandma afford to stay in her paid-for home, since the nursing home wants to confiscate it for grandpa's care?

I think these are the REAL problems that most people grapple with...not the esoteric policy issues that so many on call-in shows claim to "worry" about.

It annoys me every time I hear the talking points come out of the mouths of people who haven't a CLUE what they are talking about..

It's all a game..My side-your side.. These people are not even thinking about the consequences of these draconian policies..on their lives or the lives of their peers..

They are merely parroting what they are brainwashed to believe :(

[The Rock2111]

46. Who is Ann Ecdotal ?

Isthe media to blame for all of this?

[Pithlet]

51. Exactly. Big difference between college student poor

and struggling to support a family on minimum wage without health insurance or a car poor. I don't know if that was the author's intention to conflate the two. I've done the college student "poor", and I think I did it on even less, and I wouldn't dream of holding it up as some example of how to effectively live below ones means.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

80. I lived on the cheap as a grad student, but health insurance was

included in my tuition, which I got in exchange for TA-ing.

I could also share apartments and food costs with three other people, work part-time on campus, and find plenty of free or low-cost entertainment on campus.

I felt richer then than I do now.

[uppityperson]

73. Link to Bumbershoot, but don't need to work 20hr/wk for foodstamps

http://www.bumbershoot.com/

[KG]

25. i 've lived on that kind of money before. i damn sure wasn't 'thriving',

a time in my life i'd much rather forget.

[kineneb]

29. Surviving (and and not thriving) on $14,000 a year

Hubby is disabled, and we live on his SSDI. Because he is a dialysis patient and we have spent down our assets, he has both Medicare and Medicaid (which has an income cap- go over it and lose coverage for medicines).

Life is a struggle, and nothing will change for as long as Hubby is alive. We get a discount on our electricity and telephone. The thermostat is set to 65 deg., because the propane is expensive. I pick up free food every month. We have stripped out almost everything from the budget except the cell phones and cable modem. (No TV service even.) When you have to shop at thrift stores, and know that "this is the way it will be from now on," it isn't a lot of fun.

I laugh at those who talk about setting future "financial goals." Mine are to be able to have food and heat.

The writer of the OP knows that she will not be living this way forever. I know that I will.

[silverlib]

63. and it really makes me angry

at an implication that you can make this a "fun" challenge.

My best to you and I am so sorry that you have to live like this in the richest country in the world. I am ashamed.

[SoCalDem]

72. Yep.. it's NOT a "game", and I think that the person who wrote it

will soon find out that, on paper a budget always works out..but when the real world unfurls itself, it rarely works like you planned..

[tabasco]

96. Damn right. Eating rice + bouillion cubes for weeks on end is no fun at all.

This is ruling class propaganda.

[Midlodemocrat]

77. Wow. I am so humbled by your post.

And so very sorry for the conditions you are living in currently. :hug:

[catnhatnh]

30. And the unspoken part....

....she is a parasite. All her "income" will come from her ex-husband and government grants, EXCEPT for babysitting and freelance fees which she neither specifies nor appearently declares....her student insurance is nearly $1200 a year and is not included as a major expence? That will take her down to below $75 a week in "disposable income" and I don't even notice a passing wave to utility bills or the computer access fees it would take to get this on the internet...In short-either lying horseshit or she has a goodly undeclared income.Or both-neither would surprise me....

[etherealtruth]

84. "she is a parasite"

Of course she must be a parasite. There is no reason to award alimony:sarcasm:

While I agree that there seems to be a legitimate question about how much she earns for babysitting and freelance fees (in order to meet her expenses), and I agree with many of your questions and points ... I question the comment about alimony.

[countingbluecars]

31. If she can do it ...

no need for a minimum wage increase. Yeah, right. Repug propaganda piece IMO.

[eridani]

33. Social capital is a good replacement for money

Not to mention all the material capital you piled up before you got poor--the years of dental work, the freezer and other appliances, etc.

[hyphenate]

35. I'm in the same boat

and I know it's difficult.

I think you need to check on the food stamps again, because you should qualify for a few. In addition, depending on what state you live in, you might be qualified for fuel assistance and perhaps even health care. (This isn't true for all states, but you should check anyhow.)

If you are disabled, there are additional benefits for those who are. And around here, there are coops and food banks as well.

It is a challenge, and as long as you are able to live simply, it's doable. For me, this year has been a little easier because of the mild weather, because the oil is lasting a little longer, and for that I'm grateful. My bills take about half of my monthly disability, but I still don't have anything luxurious. My mom helped me get a new computer last month for Christmas, and as long as I have the internet, I'm a happy camper. :)

[Wiley50]

55. I'm In A Boat, Literally

A 1978 28 ft sailboat that I bought when my disability went through
and they had to pay me back money from the time I filed.
On $603 a month it's a good thing I did or I would be homeless.

My splurge is internet access too
It's all I need to keep me busy

Fuck the Bush Economy

Eat the Rich!

[SmokingJacket]

36. I lived comfortably on $6,000 ten years ago.

It's just a matter of your obligations and needs, I guess. I had a microscopic apartment, no one but myself to worry about, and a free car an ex had given me. No worries!

If she's going to school she has health care -- that's the big thing.

[Coexist]

37. how is someone "thriving" when they have to ask for free food?

that makes no sense.

If she is thriving, leave the food bank goods for those who aren't.

I have a heard time believing this "nobility in poverty" tale.

...Oh, and when I was a full-time college student (minimum of 12 credit hours per semester) I not only didn't have a government grant, I had to work 20-30 hours per week waiting tables, chambermaiding, supermarket check out girl - whatever. My student loan (which I paid back in full) paid for my tuition, and I paid for my rent, books, food, toiletries, and partying.

Is she getting a job in the supermarket during breaks to get her off the handouts? If not, why not?
Why can't she work a part-time job and go to class full time?

[buddysmellgood]

40. Attitude.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

39. You are a hero to me!

Seriously!

[Warren Stupidity]

56. The OP overquoted an essay by some woman.

The OP is not living on 12,000/yr (nor is the author of that wonderful tale, in my opinion.)

[Selah]

58. Tommy?

[Selah]

43. $20.00/mo is not tithing - it is an offering.

Minor correction. Tithing is, of course, the first 10% of your gross; which in her case would be $100.00/mo.

[twilight_sailing]

44. 7 votes fof the Greatest Page? LOL.

[NMDemDist2]

47. exactly right in 1999 we made over $100,000, 2006? we'll be lucky to

claim $30,000

was it tough? nope.

we eat good, our cars are old and older but run well and are well maintained

this year we will finally be out of debt all the way and from there on it's clear sailing. our 'nut' will be less than $1000 a month also

and we'll squirrel away every $ we can find so hopefully in 5-6 years we can retire

it's all in not getting hung up on gotta haves and getting grateful for what we *do* have

and we are :D

as long as we don't get sick that is :hide:

[eridani]

52. You have a huge amount of stored capital

What you were able to save on $100K, a whole raft of household appliance that probably won't break down anytime soon, years of dental work and access to health care, etc. Actual poor people don't have those things.

[NMDemDist2]

53. well that sounds good but

we had been self employed and uninsured for years

my appliances were all bought used (from a trustyworthy used appliance place-- generally paid 50% of new)

we are sitting pretty today though (I will admit) due to the insane housing bubble in Phoenix. our little $80k house sold for 3 times that

but we didn't pour it back into another one, we moved to a rural area, bought an acre with a mobile home on it and paid cash from the proceeds

i'm not saying we didn't downsize or tighten out belts cuz we did. a LOT

but I can still be grateful. and I am ;)

we both are working jobs at less than 1/3 of what we made at the height of the Clinton administration and I am grateful every day we don't have children. that would have changed the equation quite a bit I'm sure.

[eridani]

57. That's what I mean by prior capital

Property that you got when normal people could easily become homeowners which has appreciated a great deal. I'm in the same situation myself. I could probably live comfortably at near poverty level, but only because I already have a paid-off house, furnishings, appliances, savings, a lifetime's worth of reasonable (though sometimes intermittent) access to health and dental care. That isn't the same thing as actually being poor, not at all.

[LeftyMom]

48. Yawn.

I make less than that (by WORKING! thankyouverymuch,) I'm a full time student, I have a kid, and I don't drag my greedy ass down to the food bank because I buy my own food like a responsible adult.

It's really easy to go on about the ease of voluntary simplicity when one has no dependents, responsibilities or pressing medical issues. However, it's hardly impressive that one's managed to live within one's means when one's needs are so few.

Maybe it's just because I'm getting by on less, buying good food and keeping a five year old in pants and shoes that fit, or maybe it's because I don't think anybody who can swing a car and health insurance has any right to lecture others on the proper way to be poor, but I could not be less impressed.

[Dastard Stepchild]

68. $12000 a year would just about pay my yearly rent bill...

and a small portion of my utilities in my rather modest apartment.

Where in the hell does ol' girl live to be able to live like this?
Must be nice.

[Hidden Stillness]

70. What a Goddamned Delusion

"$382 a month for food, utilities, clothes, medical deductibles and co-pays, gasoline, renter's and life insurance and any help I give my daughter, who lives on even less than I do." This silly idiot is already in the poor house--hey, why don't you just throw in a car and house with the money you have left over? This crap was obviously written by rich people, for rich people, to convince themselves that there is no such thing as poverty. It shows no comprehension whatsoever of what the prices of things are, and what the actual expenses are. The problem is not even food or clothes, (you will not be buying clothes, dear): it is a sudden car repair that costs $500, or more, a hot water heater that they told you was going to cost $600, but that was $860, and that took all your money, so now you have to put hundreds of dollars of food on the credit card for two months, plumbing emergencies, medical problems of any kinds--usually hundreds if they are anything, and God help you, roofing or any other major expense. Do you have pets? They go to the vet, you know--more hundreds. Then you have to try to pay the credit card bill off. These are the things that kill you, not ordinary living expenses, even if you do pretend you are paying for food, clothes, insurance, utilities, gas, and all the rest of your fantasy, on $382 a month.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

82. Exactly--my determination to get out of debt has been continually

undermined by car repairs (the thing I hate most about Minneapolis, which I otherwise like, is needing a car to run errands for my elderly mother and stepfather or go places where the buses don't go--which is nearly everywhere) and dental bills.

Every time I have started to pay down my balance--blam! An unexpected expense.

If I didn't have those, I'd actually live quite well.

[fishwax]

91. yep, it's the unforeseen expenses

She mentions that she'll have to pay for her cars 60,000 mile checkup, so she has a much newer and more reliable car than most trying to live on 12k a year--another example of how her situation doesn't reflect the reality of others in that situation.

[bleedingheart]

95. You about summed up what I think...this was written by someone

who is trying to make the poor look like they are just fine where they are...and that if they aren't all out of poverty within 3 years...well then they are just not working hard enough..

This article pisses me off.

I remember having my first job out of college...making about $23K a year..and between rent, student loan payments, utilities..and the essentials..I was just scraping by...and then I got sick...and boy oh boy...try and come up with the $500 in copayments to get treated for a lymphatic infection due to my shitty job...well that was joyous...put me further into the hole...I was never so glad to move back in with my mom when I found a better job...so that I could pay off my student loans and actually save some cash...and I was even paying rent to mom...but boy it was a much better way...and I considered myself lucky because I had my mom to be there...other folks aren't so lucky.

[uppityperson]

71. $500/month rent? SInce when (or where) do you need to work 20 hr/wk for foodstamps?

Here is an easy way to save money buying non-essential stuff. Don't.
If everyone ate foodbank food there would be even less to go around.

[Error]

76. Its all relative

here an analogy. I remember when we had antennas for TV and there were 3 main networks and PBS. Back then I knew what was on and what was coming on. When a new series was starting, you knew about it. When cable came and the viewing palette changed, I stopped paying attention to network and now I never know about new shows so I never bother to tune into them. And with all the channels of cable, there is just nothing to watch. To bolster this theory, I remember being somewhere where there was just one channel available. I can say there was never as much to watch as when there was only one channel.

So I find that, now, having money, you appreciate things less. It's like having all the channels - there's no reason to care about anything. There is no struggle in life, the richness of the experience is diminished.

Here another analogy - you're playing a ball game where the score is close in the later inning. the rich person got way ahead a long time ago and left in the 7th because it was already over.

[seabeyond]

78. i lived that way for a decade. the better i got, i was able to buy

a house. 32k here in amarillo. but was cute as pie in a safe, nice neighborhood. a little two bedroom house amongst the big ones. mom decided i should buy, not rent and i told her, payment had to be same as rent. drove past it without knowing about it. called on it and was a terrific deal. a company bought it when they hired the person who owned it and moved him out of state. slowly i gained personal items and stuff i wanted, never in a hurry, never in need.

and i often felt the lack, or fear if i could make it. that wasnt fun

now i have enough to pay bills and things i need and want and save.... i certainly learned how to honor money and i think that is at least part that allows it to grow. it was a grand decade of lessons for me. at times hard. but i do like not having to stress about the money later in life. i was young, it didnt hurt me to live that way, and i had no one dependent on me. big difference.

anyway, ... i like your attitude.

[Earth_First]

81. Have you heard of freecycle?

Try it out, it's free!

www.freecycle.org

[StrictlyRockers]

85. Me too Herman.

I feel like I am living in paradise, like a king. I feel abundance.

Less is more. It is so simple. I live in luxury.

SR

[BluePatriot]

99. Gag.

Written by one who knows they will escape the situation...while the piece has some decent tidbits it is ultimately fluff. I did notice it was run counterpoint to the article about the couple who cannot get by on $150 k a year, a layout which was really pushing the meme of personal responsibility in our collective faces....

Still, though, you almost never read stuff like this in the MSM, so even with its gleam of corny-fluff-cheer, maybe it will inform some...