Since when is pointing out a woman has no children an insult?

[Telly Savalas]

What the fuck? Isn't this the 21st century? A woman disgraces her self if she chooses not to have children?

The fact that the noisemakers on the Right are calling Boxer's comments an insult is very telling of their caveman-like misogyny. These freaks need therapists. Badly.

[pnwmom]

1. And Boxer didn't even do that, really.

She just said that Rice, like Boxer herself, didn't have any immediate family member who was affected by Iraq.

This is just typical Republican fact-twisting.

[CatWoman]

2. check this out

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/12/blogtalk-the-boxer-rice-slugfest/

[NYC]

8. I'm sorry I read that.

Despicable.

[CatWoman]

14. they just went buck wild, didn't they?

however, some of the comments were pretty good:



First Lady Laura Bush to People Magazine:

“Dr. Rice, who I think would be a really good candidate, is not interested. Probably because she is single, her parents are no longer living, she’s an only child. You need a very supportive family and supportive friends to have this job.”

Where’s the outrage?

— Posted by James, Los Angeles

Senator Boxer was crystal clear and there was nothing anti-feminist about her comments. She was pointing out as to who will pay the price for the escalation of troops in Iraq. Not she, whose children are too old and grandchildren too young. And of course, not Ms. Rice who is childless. It was a valid point. Period. And,by the waw, many liberal blogs are calling for Mr. Bush’s daughters to volunteer. Another valid point. All these decisions makers whose own life or the lives of their loved ones are not on the line…

— Posted by ceci


That’s disgusting … Boxer was making the point that families who don’t have members in the military don’t fully understand the pain and suffering of a family who does. Fact is, I agree that those without family in Iraq are less inclined to oppose the war or even give it thought other than general outrage than people who have lost family members or friends in the war.

Leave it to people like Limbaugh to make it into a “Democrat slams African-American woman for not having children” statement. Fool.

— Posted by J

[Pithlet]

18. I thought she had a sister.

Not that it matters to the discussion, I just thought I remembered seeing her sister on Project Runway. :hide: She was a judge. It's weird Laura would get that wrong.

Anyway, it's just the Right wingers being their typical hypocrite selves. They know damn well Boxer didn't mean it as an insult.

[CatWoman]

20. I think that was Condi's cousin

I believe she is an only child.

[Pithlet]

24. Oh, okay.

I don't know why I thought it was her sister. I was afraid I'd imagined the whole thing.

[CatWoman]

26. plus, her cousin is gorgeous

AND a liberal :)



http://www.pacificviews.org/weblog/archives/001251.html

[Pithlet]

29. Yay, she's one of us.

I though she was lovely when I saw her on the show.

[minnesota_liberal]

30. No wonder Condi is bitter. (NT)

[aquart]

19. Well, Republicans can't tell the truth and win. At anything.

So of course they distort and lie. If they didn't, they couldn't exist.

[NYC]

36. I had seen this comment:

...That’s disgusting … Boxer was making the point that families who don’t have members in the military don’t fully understand the pain and suffering of a family who does. Fact is, I agree that those without family in Iraq are less inclined to oppose the war or even give it thought other than general outrage than people who have lost family members or friends in the war...

While reading Boxer's remark, I was reminded of Laura Bush's remark about "no family" being a reason Rice wouldn't/shouldn't run for president.

Strange that Laura's remark elicited no response from the likes of Limbaugh. Boxer's appropriate comment has been twisted into an insult. In the process of twisting Boxer's comment into an insult, they have insulted all women by insinuating that their "value" is in bearing children.

I'm so tired of all of them.

[blue cat]

3. Exactly

42, no children. It was my choice not to have children. I've encouraged my nieces not to feel pressured into having children if they truly don't have the strongest maternal instinct.

[Cha]

4. The corporatemediawhores will take

any freakedup chance they get to slam on Dems. The question is.."Have the mainstreamers woken up to their fascist brainwashing tactics, YET?"

To paraphrase the clinton campaign in '92..

"IT'S THE MEDIA, STUPID!"

[rebel with a cause]

31. MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING

is exactly what this is, and the media (especially the right wingers) are going to use this to take the attention off of bush's idiotic plan for Iraq. I agree with you that we can only hope that the mainstreamers do not follow along with them, instead they hopefully make fun of their desperation in doing this. The old saying is that "Hope springs eternal" and I guess that about sums up my feelings about the press in general. I keep hoping that in general the people in the press want to do their job with dignity and not as bush's lapdogs.

[Nite Owl]

5. I heard that part of the hearing

and I didn't get that from it at all. She was merely pointing out that many others are affected directly while neither of them were. Actually what it made me think is of those that could have someone to worry about and dont'--- like the President.

[Bjornsdotter]

9. That's how I took it also

....looks like Condi is a bit sensitive about it.

Cheers

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Saying it is an insult to refer to a woman's childlessness

seems to imply that a childless women is "less" than a woman who has children. This would go with the notion that the prime (if not only) function of a woman is to be a mother. Frankly, I find it insulting that anyone thinks childlessness in a woman is an insult. I've never had children of my own, by my own choice, and to me it means that I have lived up to my ideal of not helping overpopulate the planet.

[dicknbush]

7. I thought any one who is paying attention knew that Riced has no kids..Whats the big deal

WHEN I SAW THAT PART OF THE HEARING I THOUGHT THAT BOXER WAS REFERING TO THE POSSIBILITY THAT RICE MAY HAVE NEPHEWS OR NEICES BUT THEN SHE IS AN ONLY CHILD ISN'T SHE. THE RIGHTIES ARE DESPERATE IF THIS IS WHERE THEY HAVE TO GO TO GET SOME TRACTION TO FIGHT BACK

[Lex]

10. When you imply that having no children means you can't understand

something, like how horrible war is.


______________________

[bdamomma]

11. don't we have other things to talk about?

I heard Boxer say that, I think she was referring that Condi, has made no "sacrifices" compared to people with children who have. Condi has not made any sacrifices has she? Condi is cold woman who remember was shopping in NY when NO was under water, what kind of person does that?

[dicknbush]

17. Of course we do but the Righties want to distract from the facts by gettting into a .....

Debate about the staus of Ms Rices home life. Boxer needs to come out blasting for one day and shut the idots down. The righties are just trying to divert attention. And this is what they think of as red meat for the megaphone right winged radio talkers. Its all they got and the fact of the matter is that Rice is incompetent and a failure and a MAJOR LIAR and in fact I think lots of people at State would love for her to retire and go on a Piano Concert tour ASAP

[bdamomma]

22. you know where this is all leading to make Boxer feel guilty and

apologize to poor condi, what BS a distraction is right, this administration and the repigs are sore losers. Move on Repigs.

[Cha]

45. Shopping for "shoes"...the

cold ass kind that only bush would pick in his "let's rule the world and we won't leave Iraq until we drain more money into our personal coffers" inner circle.. or until The American People and The World toss them out on their Lying, Covetous Asses.

[JohnnyLib2]

12. Has this gotten any traction with the general public?

Sure seems like a non-starter to me.

[Warpy]

13. Only to right wing church ladies could it possibly be construed

as an insult, and I mean church ladies of both sexes.

You see, a woman's worth resides first in her looks and then in her fertility.

It's why we need to defeat them everywhere.

[Monkeyman]

15. How Many Iraqi women will be without child because of DU

[youthere]

16. Boxer had some nerve...

Doesn't she realize that Condi has super double secret imaginary children serving in Iraq? She also adopted a homeless cat in the Anbar Province for less than a cup of coffee a day. :eyes:

[erpowers]

21. It Is Not

It is not an insult to point out that a woman is childless. The Republicans were the one who made this about Condi Rice being single. They are just going after the ditto heads to get them angry and not thinking about the real issues. Anyone who listens to even a portion of what Boxer actually said will tell you that it was about Rice not having anything to lose in this war and not about Rice being single or childless. The Republicans are just trying manipulate this issues as much as possible.

However, Barbara Boxer in my opinion did not point out that Condi Rice is childless. If you would just take Boxer's words at face value you would just say or think none of Condi Rice's children or family members are in the military. As far as I know Boxer never said Rice was childless or that Rice did not have any children. From what I heard Boxer said her children were too old to go to war and her grandchildren were too young to go to war. Boxer then went on to say that Rice did not have any immediate family who would be going to war in Iraq. As far as I know it was Fox News along with Rice that brought up the issue of her not having children. In addition, it has been Rice, who for the last six years has been going on and on about how she is single, loves football, and loves lifting weights. I know women who like all those things are not lesbians, I like all those things and am single, but I have at times wondered if Rice is actually trying to tacitly tell America that she is a Lesbian. Others have thought she was trying to put herself in a position to run for President as a woman who is just like the guys.

[seabeyond]

23. like she couldnt say exactly the same thing to a man pushing war never having children

doesnt have to do with gender. it has to do with sending other peoples children to death... and not being able to walk in those parents shoes

[bdamomma]

25. I was the interpretation I got when I heard Boxer,

[Telly Savalas]

43. That was certainly Boxer's point.

But right-wing pundits are claiming it was taking a potshot at Rice for not having children. My point is that their claims are only evidence of their own misogyny and backward thinking.

[musette_sf]

27. yer not SPOSED to "choose

not to have children", doncha know???

GAWD sez yer a disgrace if ya can't/don't/won't pop out a quiverfull.

just ask Dobson and the Pope.

[LostInAnomie]

28. Isn't it obvious?

A woman's value is assessed by her ability to plop our children in quick and frequent succession. Her failure to do so means that she should not be considered a whole woman and should be ashamed for her shirking of God's mandate.

I thought everyone knew that.

[Arkansas Granny]

32. This is the same reaction that they made to John Kerry's botched

joke. They are desperate to change the subject from they mess they have made in Iraq, therefore they try to whip up public fervor whenever and wherever they can. It's nothing but a distraction and they damn well know it.

[beyurslf]

33. Since when is syaing that a woman doesn't have any immediate

family in danger of being sent to Iraq the same as saying she has no children?

[kimsterdemster]

34. It's bullshit...

As usual their hypocrisy on this issue knows no bounds, like that puke congressman that said to escape minimum wage/poverty status she should get married :eyes:, when you are poor you end up with the ones who also have dept (credit cards, child support, car payments, montage, etc.) I should know. I'm 40 and chose not to have children for many reasons but the biggest reason has always been, too expensive. Why wasn't this an issue when Laura Bush was explaing why Condi would not run for president? Republic's make me sick with their bullshit double standards and I think I'll e-mail Barbara and tell her NO WAY APOLOGIZE FOR THIS!!! I'm smart enough to know when a women talks about her children and says that I have no idea, she is RIGHT, and I'm glad I don't know.

[Lisa]

35. I haven't got any kids (or a husband) -- or nieces or nephews

I thought that Sen. Boxer was stating a fact ... that she herself doesn't have immediate family within that age group, who might be drafted or decide to serve. I didn't view it as a personal attack on Dr. Rice, or on childless females in general. If anything, it seemed the Senator was trying get beyond the "think of the children" argument which we've seen frequently from both sides of the aisle.

Nobody's ever come up to me and said that they either pity me or envy me for not having children (my friends don't make judgements on that basis anyway, and those are the people whose opinions I'd care about). I assume that the Secretary of State, in her years of public life, is tough enough to look after herself -- and she doesn't need a bunch of right-wingers weighing in. I don't know whether Dr. Rice and I have anything in common besides the fact that we both have PhDs and are over 35 ... but I do know that if either of us had been pining for a family, we aren't so helpless that we wouldn't have done something about it by now.

[Porcupine]

37. The point was she's a chickenhawk.

That run's with a flock of chickenhawks. The GOP's echo chamber NEVER attacks the straight arguement.

[Eurobabe]

38. When you are the party that wishes to overpopulate the world

and one of their own either cannot have children or chooses not to...

MAKE ROOM FOR THE WOMB!!

[frustrated_lefty]

39. Having a child changes your perspective.

Yes, I think Condi not having children makes it easier for her to send others to their deaths. At the same time, that asshole in office has two embarassments trotting the globe. You have to have a heart first. Once you do start to care, though, it becomes harder and harder to not care about the children of others. It might even become nigh impossible to provoke a senseless war when you conceive the simple possibility of your own kid's blood spilt upon the ground.

[WilliamPitt]

40. Remember this?

"I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what I decided to do was to fulfill my profession which I entered before my husband was in public life."

That was Hillary, during the 1992 campaign. Oh, the uproar.

It is the 21st century...where the political tactic of divide and conquer rules. They used this Clinton line, and now the Boxer line, to try and convince home-makers that they should be insulted, that these "womyn" don't share their values.

It isn't new. Here's the Nightline transcript of a show dedicated to the "cookies" comment:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/etc/03261992.html

Seem familiar?

[Va Lefty]

41. I think you have hit the nail on the head

Divide and conquer

[orleans]

42. condi can fuck off. limbaugh (hitting below *his* testes--he has no children ((thank god))

and has no immediate family members invested in this fucking war either) he can go fuck off too!

oh, wait. too many limbaugh Viagra vacations overseas to spots where sex with children is legal--he should maybe just go fuck himself instead!

[Orsino]

44. Right-wingers who worship June Cleaver...

...know that women are really supposed to raise children, and that even Condi's career on the national stage is but cold comfort.

[zanne]

46. As a woman with no children...

The only time I get insulted when somebody points it out is when they assume I wanted children but couldn't have any. Very few people stop to think that maybe I didn't want children of my own.

[Lisa]

48. if they stopped to think, they'd realize it's none of their business

As you say, zanne, they don't stop to think. Either way, they've made a faux pas. If one does have a medical ailment that prevents childbearing, it's incredibly tactless of people to bring up that point, regardless of their intentions. And in any case one shouldn't have to pull out a doctor's note for casual gawkers. I've noticed that people who persist in being nosy about my reproductive status tend to leave in a huff when I gently remind them that this is not the former East Germany, nor the fictional dictatorship in Atwood's "Handmaid's Tale". One of my co-workers whined, "I was just ..." -- whereupon my boss (she had quietly observed the whole thing) calmly said, "There's nothing 'just' about that kind of question." My co-worker turned bright red, and never spoke of this issue again.

As an only child, I used to hear people (often old enough to know better) implying that there was something "wrong" with my parents -- physical, mentally, or morally -- because I don't have any siblings. Luckily things have changed in 3 decades, with more onlies and parents of onlies out there.

[Zhade]

47. I admire the childfree. They're very unselfish.

That is not to say everyone with kids is selfish, of course.

[fishwax]

49. who said anything about her childlessness

:shrug: At least, not in the quotes I read.

But I agree with your comment that childlessness is no cause for shame these days.