Do you believe you have been a victim of domestic surveillance?

[shance]

Poll question: Do you believe you have been a victim of domestic surveillance?

[illinoisprogressive]

1. Actually, with half my family in France and we talk to them....welllllll....

you know about the dirty french. We are all terrorists.

[Deja Q]

2. I couldn't care less.

Our society is so badly riddled with crime and other things that, yeah, once in a while these things are necessary for all.

I just wish crime rates would stop going up despite it all.

I grew up feeling like people were watching over me. It's no different.

[shance]

4. Well, obviously you've never been harrassed and/or violated then Toad.

If you had I don't think you would be so smug.

[Deja Q]

27. Quite the contrary. I've lived with so much by so many I've gotten used to it.

If you want smugness, you go elsewhere.

[Zhade]

52. Spoken just like a battered wife.

Sad.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Burma Jones]

10. Hey, this is GD, not the Lounge........

you HAVE to use :sarcasm: or they don't get it

[Deja Q]

28. Sadly, I was being quite serious. But you're right,

my lack of details is sufficient cause for people not to understand.

That's why I responded. To add relevant information, which in turn creates a context for understanding.

Even if one who responds is harsh, I am taking no ill will of it.

And, yeah, they have no fuckin' idea of what I've had to endure... there are those who have had different hells, but I wouldn't wish mine on anybody. Not even them. And it's ironic I of all people understand the empathic truism behind the concept of "Suffer the fate of thy neighbor".

[Zhade]

51. Uh, great for you. Do the rest of us a favor - don't vote.

Your attitude doesn't help the cause of things like, oh, our civil rights.

[Burma Jones]

3. Sure, part of the job...............

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Burma Jones]

9. If it was my job I wouldn't post about it........

toodle-oo

[EFerrari]

5. Yes. I do all my shopping on line. For a six week period, all my

packages came pre-opened.

My al Qaida towels and pet supplies and printer ink cartridges.

It was pretty creepy, then it stopped.

More tax money down the drain.

[shance]

8. Absolutely. Tax money for Americans to be potentially violated, or worse.

People need to realize that such a violation is a kin to allowing anyone into your house, to take and/or LEAVE anything they want without you ever knowing and/or having an ability to truly defend yourself.

Its called illegal. And it leaves everyone vulnerable, even those who are the perpetrators.

[EFerrari]

15. I took pictures and documented everything.

Just in case law means anything around here again. :)

[shance]

19. Good work Sfexpat***

I have done the same.

[EFerrari]

26. My idea has always been to inundate these @ssholes with data.

Why wait? Just send them the fattest file you can.

LOL, keep 'em busy.

[dubeskin]

11. Seriously, lots of helicopters

Within the last six months, there have been loads of helicopters flying around my part of town. Not really over my house, but lots just in general, more than should be. Maybe they're traffic, but the amount has "surged"(hehe) over the last six months or so.

[shance]

14. There have been a few articles on the Helicopter spying. I'll see if I can track them down.

It's been happening here in Los Angeles for a while.

I used to think it was traffic and police.

Apparently not.

[dubeskin]

17. Very interesting. I would very much like to see those

[shance]

33. "The Sky has Eyes" - Surveillence helicopters

The Sky has Eyes" - Surveillence helicopters



(A "Merlin" helicopter)




Thee surveillance cameras, high-powered binoculars and armoured personnel carriers, helicopters are devices that were originally invented, manufactured and used during wars on foreign soil by the military, and that are now sold on the cheap to civilian law enforcement authorities (in the United States: the FBI, the BATF and the DEA), which use them for "operations other than war."

Apparently the spying has been going on for a while now? Is that legal?




Such "technology transfers" are in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (and all of the rulings that have been based upon it), because these transfers increasingly involve the US military in domestic law enforcement and thus create a military police state.

Technology transfers began in the late 1960s, when local police forces were nearly overwhelmed by huge demonstrations, widespread riots and armed revolutionary groups. Another milestone came in the early 1980s, when Ronald Reagan declared that the US was fighting a "war on drugs," and that Californian law enforcement authorities needed, among other things, Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) teams and helicopters equipped with surveillance cameras, microphones and infra-red sensors. But it was in the early 1990s, that is, at the end of the Cold War, that technology transfers really began in earnest.




(Black Hawk military helicopter patrols NYC, March 2003.)


In general, airplanes make excellent mounts for surveillance cameras. Because such cameras are generally installed on the sides or the tops of buildings, and look down upon people and things that are only a few feet away from them, they rarely are called upon to do what they do best: see clearly across truly long distances (tele-vision). And so airplanes give surveillance cameras the distances they need to really perform well.

Like conventional airplanes, helicopters can stay in contact with ground stations through radios and other microwave transmitters. But, unlike conventional airplanes, which require long horizontal surfaces for take-off and landing, helicopters can take off from and land on short little "pads," and can navigate through and around tall buildings, change directions quickly, and circle around or hover directly above a target. And so they make excellent vehicles for aerial surveillance.





(The NYPD's $9.8 million helicopter, October 2003.)


Up until recently, the New York Police Department (NYPD), had "only" six helicopters: two Bell 412s, three JetRangers, and one LongRanger. A seventh was added on 22 October 2003. A $9.8 million "state of the art" Bell 412 (see above), it was paid for by a special grant from the US Department of Justice. No other police department has such a helicopter. It requires a three-person crew, can accomodate as many as seven passengers, and is out-fitted with a battery of radar sensors, GPS trackers and locators, and long-range video and photographic cameras. In the words of Newsday, each camera is "so sophisticated it is capable of reading a license plate from 1,000 feet away, making it five times more powerful than the older surveillance equipment." Infra-red imaging allows each camera to "see," even at night. An on-board digital radio transmitter can "downlink" a live video stream -- complete with GPS-derived coordinates and GIS-created digital maps -- to receivers installed in police stations, police cars, and hand-held devices. And an on-board digital receiver can access police databases and other files containing names, license plate numbers, "high-crime" areas, "watch lists," etc.

According to the law, the police can use helicopters for surveillance purposes, without (ever) getting a warrant based upon probable cause, provided that the flights are conducted at altitudes permitted by Federal Aviation Administration regulations (500 feet or more above the ground). "Buzzing" along the level of the tree-tops is not permitted.

Helicopters have drawbacks, of course. For example, they are vulnerable to projectiles fired from the ground; supposedly, even rifles are effective against them. Helicopters can't fly long distances or stay aloft for long periods of time without re-fueling. (In certain situations, some of these drawbacks can be turned into advantages or "weapons": for example, the loud noise created by the blades "chopping" through the air can be used to confuse and intimidate political demonstrators.) As a result, helicopters are sometimes supplemented or replaced by spy planes or satellites.

Like certain airplanes, helicopters need not be flown by an on-board pilot, but can be operated by remote-control. A German company named Scheibel has developed a system (a pair) of small-scale uninhabited helicopters (cost $1 million) that can be equipped with infrared imagers, surveillance cameras and other small payloads, and can be computer-controlled from a ground station.



I think I saw one of these a couple of days ago. It looked like a rescue helicopter in the sky. I had never seen one before.


Each machine is only 8 feet long, can travel as far as 60 miles from its remote-controlers, can travel 75 miles per hour and stay aloft for as long as 6 hours.

[Zhade]

53. You're in L.A. too?

Damn it, when will we have another DU meetup? I've never gotten to meet you guys!

[kestrel91316]

72. Another LA DUer, here.....

[madrchsod]

12. 68-drugs-sds-draft-fbi

oh ya they had informants. they also tipped us of a major drug bust...now that was a complete surprize

[purduejake]

13. Most definitely

Not only government, but corporations. I was in a car accident a few years ago and I know the insurance company I am suing tracks my posts on DU - he even asked me about it during a deposition.

And the city of Chicago is now pushing RFID transit cards that track time/location data of swipes.

Check youtube for traffic cameras with audio to capture conversations after accidents.

Telephone companies freely handing over records to the government.

Employers googling employee names to find out sexual orientation / political activity.

The list goes on and the separation from government/corporations is blurring as they both act like big brother.

[shance]

16. No way! Bless your heart.

That's so bloody invasive!!

Seems like spying is certainly a form of intimidation and interrogation along with being a total violation of ones dignity really.

[purduejake]

23. Thank you...

And I was extremely naive at the time and kept an online journal that was used by the insurance company to track my weekend habits so they could video tape me and friends out on the town. We all publish items thinking they will never be referenced or used against us... and then something happens like a car accident. Don't feel sorry for me... I needed to wise up! Just don't learn the hard way like me! =)

[Contrite]

18. E-mails that disappeared.

From my "sent" folders. Also, e-mails that weren't received. And, once, some "garbage" code in one of mine received by a friend.

[shance]

22. I have had that problem too. With my Earthlink account.

It's been a problem especially within the last month.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. ROFLMAO To Some Of The Reasonings I Just Read For Thinking So.

:rofl:

Oy vey.

[EFerrari]

25. Enjoy your chuckle but also remember, these idiots were

watching vegans and peace grannies. Quakers and military moms.

:shrug:


There was a period of weeks here where every single one of our packages had been obviously opened And I thought, who in the world would go to the trouble? It's just dumb. But, there it was. I mean, every single package had been opened.

Maybe we were in some survey we didn't know we signed up for?

:shrug:

I hope the NSA likes the pattern I picked out for our new flatware.

:rofl:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. I Can't Say Which Ones,

as I don't want to call anything out. But one of them actually really cracked me up at the concept the poster truly thought the government was to blame. LOL

[Zhade]

54. It's funny...and it's not.

The climate that this administration has created, to the extent that people will mistake or fear routine bugs/vandalism/whatever as government spying is very serious indeed, I'm sure you'll agree!

[EFerrari]

61. It's funny because of the contents of my packages.

Really threatening stuff like gesso and puppy pads and the occasional book.

It's scary because it sends a message. "The Rule of Law doesn't apply to YOU."

I wish these guys would do something productive - like secure our ports or clean up the beach.

[midnight]

79. What exactly are they looking for? It sounds like they are

acting out of fear towards people who are not in agreement with them. If that is the case, why do they care that people who are not collecting weapons or plotting war disagree with them. I just cannot for the life of me understand thinking like this.

[Mythsaje]

21. Not that I know of...

Why should they waste their time on me?

[purduejake]

24. Ever go to a peace rally?

Member of an organization against war? Against the administration?

We know they've infiltrated those groups lately.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/263844_spy21ww.html

[EFerrari]

Indeed - except time is all they have to waste.

They seem to excel at harassing peaceniks and at not finding bin Laden.

When it happened to me, I spent days just denying it out loud to myself. Because I'm not important and because it would be such a stupid waste of time. Well, turns out, they are that stupid as far as I can tell.

I mean, you'd think the resources of the Federal Gov would be going to securing our ports or something useful. But, no, it's easier I guess to harass vegans than to actually find al Qaida cells.

[teryang]

29. A few days after I talked to a Senate staffer

...and the Senator emailed me, my office was broken into, at least I think it was. It appeared that someone had been tampering with my desktop. About the same time, my neighbors told me they noticed that my house was under surveillance. One day when I saw the black truck outside my home, I tried to run over to it to see who it was, but it sped away. I think they didn't come back.

I found some miniture earphone jack tape recording accessory device in the bushes behind my back fence a few days ago but it looked like had been there for quite some time.

I think these people have decided I'm harmless except when they feel a need to delete my posts here on DU.

Oh, I forgot to mention that someone appeared to have opened a particular piece of mail that I received on Friday.

For people who don't think this stuff goes on, I know someone broke into one of my offices years ago before a drug trial because they were afraid my defense might bust a series of cases open on appeal because of discrepancy I found in some drug lab procedures. I made the mistake of mentioning the mistake to the governments expert. The next morning before work someone (I know who it was, so did my boss and everyone else) broke into my office and took the evidence and replaced it with an altered document. As a result someone went to the brig for 45 days and got a BCD.

[EFerrari]

30. It 's funny until it happens to you.

:)

[teryang]

32. I may sound sarcastic

Some of the weird things I've seen happen, I won't describe because frankly its too scary, unbelievable, and probably detrimental to my wellbeing. So, it's a joke, right? What does the government call that, plausible deniability.

But I'm not making fun of this thread, I think it's a good one.

[EFerrari]

34. Gotcha. I can't believe that I can't believe that this could even happen.

It brings back memories of Maxwell Smart.

When you find yourself in a stairwell with a camera and a slightly embarassed FedEx employee, well, that's Douglas Adams country that you don't want to admit, no, not even to your pillow. And there it is.

It was just so weird. All of a sudden, ALL of our stuff had been opened. At first, I thought that it was just traffic -- so many pieces, they get messed up. But after a month and longer, it just gets harder to ignore. And then, it stopped and all our stuff was normal.

Whatever. Special Agent Mike, I hope you liked the pink hoodie I ordered to join CodePink.

lol

[teryang]

50. LOL!

I'm laughing and it helps alot.

[submerged99]

35. They ATTEMPTED to spy on us, but were inept

I belong to an organization that included a core group of about 20 people that the city "intelligence unit" tried to keep track of for at least 10 years.

What they collected was not much more than newspaper clippings and some copies of webpages. There were photos taken of people at various rallies but the cops had no idea who the people were. Also, the cops were never able to infiltrate any closed meetings so they took down random license plates which netted people who just happened to be parked in the area and had no connection to our group. They had a few random sign up sheets an undercover had snatched from some public meetings but no record of what was actually discussed at any of the meetings.

Here's what I've learned about police surveillance. If you are not being quoted in or having your picture splashed across a corporate newspaper, the cops most likely have no idea who you are. They tend to concentrate on media spokespeople and those who tend to be highly visible public figures in a movement.

[shance]

38. Glad to hear you didnt have much of a problem. My experience has been

the opposite of what you mentioned, with regards to who they spy on.

Bottom line: Government agencies (for lack of better accuracy: CIA/FBI) it seems can and will spy and track whoever they want, or those they are told to monitor. They also will employ neighbors to spy on you and have been doing that for a while now.

With the Trojan horse that's been created with so much technology, it is much easier to track someone without them figuring it out, ever really. They have maded it virtually impossible to trace back to "who done it" which of course allows those abusing to continue on without the worry of being caught. There is practically little or no way in which to prove a crime is being committed when you are being monitored because there is most often no 'paper trail' if you will. This is one of the primary reasons the Patriot Act so violently offends and assaults the American citizen on such a grand scale.

Did you know that your safety deposit boxes can be confiscated in the act of "martial law" and/or whatever defined reason they included in the Patriot Act?

We have people in leadership who know no boundaries when it comes to peoples sacred space. They believe their space is sacred, and ours is TO be violated because until we say no, they will keep violating our boundaries and our lives as citizens.

[krispos42]

36. Yes, why just the other day...

I was <censored> down at <censored> <censored> while <censored> when I noticed <censored> me a <censored> <censored> <censored> being <censored> by at least two <censored>, maybe <censored>. They were wearing <censored>, <censored>, and <censored>, and one of the <censored> had a <censored> and a <censored>. They seem to be <censored> me as I <censored> down highway <censored>, and they pointed some kind of <censored> at me that looked kinka like a <censored>, or maybe a <censored> like the kind they have in that TV show <censored>. I think it might have been some sort of <censored>, but who knows?

[shance]

41. LOL! Thank (censored)

;)

[krispos42]

46. Error: username 'krispos42' not found

User, in fact, never ever existed in the first place. Ever. Never ever ever. Take some mental floss and go back to work.

And stop mumbling so much when you use your cel phone!

:-)

[Ellipsis]

37. yes...

[fishwax]

39. I think we're all victims when this shit happens n/t

[shance]

42. I think you're right. That is what the bullies intend. To have everyone scared and distrusting

of one another.

That is why we need to be coming together as communities and building relationships with our neighbors and friends and family that are strong and can weather storms like these.

[pinniped]

40. Illegal phone taps.

.

[shance]

43. Yes. Someone told me they don't need taps anymore, they can do it via satellite.

they can do it via satellite, whatever that means.......

[deutsey]

44. I'm guessing because I've been very involved (in a high-profile way)

in local anti-war, anti-Bush activities coupled with the fact that I live in an area where Cheney and Rummy have homes, that I've at least been under some kind of scrutiny.

[shance]

45. Absolutely. I have been involved as well,

along with having family members involved in Bush politics. It gets 'their' attention, to say the least and they do try to intimidate.

What I'm hoping people will begin to better understand is the invasions of privacy have nothing to do with a "War on Terror" unless you considering terrorizing American citizens and other citizens as being their overall agenda. A docile populace doesn't fight back.

[EFerrari]

56. What a bunch of sissies these guys are.

:evilgrin:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

68. just don't go near where cheney hunts!

[deutsey]

70. There was talk of us doing protests near where Cheney's house is

and I suggested we wear orange hunting vests and hold signs saying something like, "Please, Mr. Cheney, don't shoot!"

It never got off the ground, though, unfortunately.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

80. LOL

I guess the SS won't let you near there

[shance]

47. kick

n/t

[onecent]

48. I know I have. Right before the presidential election my husband

and I were called into the Bank of America to discuss our accounts. They ACTUALLY MADE THE APPOINTMENT.

I had to provide another copy of mine and my husbands drivers licenses. They told us our account was "RED FLAGGED"..and I said, oh this must be from the Bush Regime.

The lady was ALL APOLOGETIC...but called me at home about a week later to tell me the people who were on our accounts as beneficiaries, or death, had to provide their driver's licenses.

Both of them ALREADY HAD ACCOUNTS at the same fuckin' bank but I had to ask them to FAX THEM. My son lives out of the country cuz he hates this fucking place. God love him.

I told them NONE of us could have opened an account WITHOUT ALREADY PRODUCING said driver's licenses,,,,but it went over her head....

We pulled some money from there and put it elsewhere!

[shance]

49. There has been a lot of 'flagging' at banks.

Not that it is any consolation by any stretch, but it was good that they told you.

Most people aren't being told they are being flagged.

[EFerrari]

55. My phone was funky the whole time I worked for MoveOn here.

I was helping to promote their book and my reception got strange for some time.

WhatEVER.

DON'T YOU GUYS HAVE SOMETHING BETTER TO DO? WHERE'S BIN LADEN, FOR EXAMPLE? THIS ENGLISH TEACHER REALLY DOESN'T DESERVE YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION.

:rofl:

[Karenina]

57. Nor does this one!

My phone is again being monitored. Obnoxious noises and ring-backs are the order of the day. What a WASTE of resources.

[EFerrari]

59. Somehow, I don't think that these guys went to spook school to spy on

ENGLISH TEACHERS.

DON'T YOU GUYS FEEL A LITTLE SILLY, OPENING MY STUFF FROM POTTERY BARN?

BY THE WAY, WHERE'S BIN LADEN?

:hi:

[etherealtruth]

58. I do

For about a year following 9/11 ... I don't think it had anything to do with my political activities or beliefs.

I had some "weird" phone line issues and some weird things with my email ... I believe it had to do with the fact that I had recently divorced a Muslim foreign national. I think I was "caught in some kind of web" ... he regularly had contact with people in Islamic communities outside of the U.S. and with me (and our kids). I think they linked me into that through their little information webs.

In addition to that I have a warm and close relationship with a family from Iraq, that has close ties to family in Iraq.

I am sure any information obtained from me bored the hell out of them!

[EFerrari]

60. You contact MUSLIMS? You, Missy, are on the list.

I look forward to the day our country is in the hands of sane people.

[etherealtruth]

62. I think it took them a year to get sick of my ex and I fighting

I am not a paranoid person, nor am I given to delusions of self importance ... but, there were too many weird things for me to just brush off.

[EFerrari]

63. That's the thing that got to me, too. Shouldn't they be going after

someone important instead of fooling around with me?

But as Richard Clarke said, the FBI doesn't know what it knows.

[shance]

66. When you say "weird" phone and email stuff, can you explain what was weird?

It might help some DUers to know what you were experiencing.

[kineneb]

64. oh, probably

(couldn't vote since there wasn't a proper option for me)

...since half my family are Iranian expats. Somewhere in DC there is a complete dossier on me and all my family members, probably dating back to the late 60s/early 70s. I figure they have been watching us for a long time.

Funny thing...someone in the Gov. recently tried to recruit my step-father for Farsi translation services... he informed them he is over 65, and really not interested in traveling to Iraq...

[porphyrian]

65. I have no idea whatsoever.

Would've bored whoever had to do the monitoring, though.

[EFerrari]

67. How embarrassing, don't you think?

"What did you turn up today?"

"An Oasis CD and some Vitamin B-12. You?"

lol

[porphyrian]

69. Maybe they let the monitors get high to do the job.

I assume they've found a better way to monitor cell phone traffic by now as well. Just listen to the people around you the next time you're in public to get an idea of how monotonous that would get. People use cell phones to call people they can see...

;)

[flvegan]

71. Photos and video, multiple times

To me, it's part of the game. I expect it. I don't think anyone has gone the "sifting through the trash" thing with me, though. I'm sure that it could happen, though.

[Bucky]

73. Besides my email... probably not

Of course I wouldn't know, but donating to DU and carrying picket signs is about as radical as I've gotten.

[shance]

74. Love the pic of Abe***

:toast:

[Bucky]

75. Thanks. It's Colbert's eyes. I'm getting a lot of comps on it.

But I can't take credit. It's from an anti-fact Wiki community. Just click on image properties to find it.

[shance]

76. Oh yeah. Couldn't miss the eyes.

;)

[otherlander]

77. Aren't we all?

[meldroc]

78. Yep, got photographed by the FBI at a war protest.

This happened at a World Can't Wait protest in Arvada, CO.

Don't worry, I returned the favor...