Convicted Watergate 'plumber' claims LBJ may have had JFK assassinated

[kpete]

Convicted Watergate 'plumber' claims LBJ may have had JFK assassinated

Ron Brynaert
Published: Sunday January 14, 2007


In a soon-to-be-published book, a former CIA agent, convicted for his role as a "plumber" in the Watergate scandal, claims that former President Lyndon B. Johnson may have played a role in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

According to the New York Post's gossip column, Page Six, "E. Howard Hunt – the shadowy former CIA man who organized the Watergate break-in and was once eyed in the assassination of President Kennedy – bizarrely says that Lyndon Johnson could be seen as a prime suspect in the rubout."

"Only the most far-out conspiracy theorists believe in scenarios like Hunt's," the column continues. "But in a new memoir, American Spy: My Secret History in the CIA, Watergate & Beyond, due out in April, Hunt, 88, writes: 'Having Kennedy liquidated, thus elevating himself to the presidency without having to work for it himself, could have been a very tempting and logical move on Johnson's part.'"

more at:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Convicted_Watergate_plumber_claims_LBJ_may_0114.html

[1monster]

1. So if he is fingering LBJ, I gues we can assume that LBJ did NOT

have anything to do with the assassignation?

[formercia]

86. LBJ probably mouthed off about JFK many times

and he probably gave a nod but LBJ was just a small bit of the puzzle.

[PSPS]

2. Saddam "may have" flown planes into the twin towers!11!!1

So nice to see "rawstory" provide free advertising for a convicted criminal's "Tell-All Tome o' Outlandish Stories!" Maybe Fox can plop his "interview" into the space recently vacated by O.J.

[kentuck]

3. I still remember my first impressions after the assassination of JFK..

When LBJ said something like, "we need to get this plane in the air"...It seemed to me to be an unexplained lack of compassion in some weird way. I remembered how Kennedy had beat him out for the Presidency. I thought for a moment that LBJ may have had it done...But I was only 16 at the time.

[karynnj]

11. I was 13 at the time and thought the opposite

He, Jackie Kennedy and the President's body were on the plane. I took it that he wanted to get back to DC as quickly as possible to assure the country. It also would likely have been Mrs. Kennedy's desire to get out of there and back home as soon as possible. Why would this seem a lack of compassion?

[IndyOp]

14. Kennedy should never, never have been removed from Texas until

a very, very thorough investigation was complete. The body of the victim is THE most important record of what happened in the crime. Further - Johnson is attributed as having ordered the car in which Kennedy was assassinated to be immediately cleaned and reupholstered.

I won't hazard a guess as to who might have wanted Kennedy dead - but Johnson participated in preventing an investigation and that stinks.

[karynnj]

44. I completely agree with you on that

Also I said I was 13 (and a very innocent 13 year old at that). I think the shooting of Oswald was more sucpicious.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

50. It's called fleeing a crime scene

Flight in and of itself may be introduced into evidence, at trial, as evidence of guilt.

[Rene]

60. Watch the video of LBJ being sworn in as prez with Jackie beside him

Watch LBJ exchange a wink and nod with the man that's positioned behind the two of them. He's the man who ordered the guys, who usually stood on those two limo jump platforms at the back of the President's limo to get off and ride in the next car....leaving the President exposed. Watch the two Secret Service men trying to protest not being allowed to assume their guarding positions....but being ordered into the following car. They would have been positioned so that no shot could have hit JFK from the book building.
Watch the video of the parade route......note that JFK is shot a 2nd time and is thrown violently backward -- brain matter flies out of the BACK of his head --- by a shot coming from the grassy knoll --- where all the witnesses are pointing to.

GHW bush was in Dallas that day and has NEVER explained why.
Gerald Ford was the creator of the idea of the stupid and false 'single bullet theory'.
Gerald Ford's pardon put an end to full investigations into other republican illegal activity.
Gerald Ford was no hero, in my book. He enabled conditions that have led to this administration completely ruining the Federal governments balance of power.

Hmmmm Oswald had to be silenced before he could talk. Hussein had to be silenced before the Dems took control and started hearings--before he could talk publicly. Noreiga was sent to prison somewhere before he could talk. Bin Laden is probably dead, before he could talk publicly.

[dbeach]

73. amazin wink

http://control-alt-delete.ca/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=292

now it looks like a wink to me
BUT someone told me ..... under a more sophisticated focused lens ..it is NOT a wink.

I guess a wink is in the eyes of the beholder.
or it depends on what your definiton of the word is is

[kentuck]

17. It would just my impression...

At that time, we were all conspiracists, I suppose? There was something lacking in his response, I thought...

[aquart]

22. Based on that?

Let's see: LBJ, on becoming president, wanted to leave speedily a city that was killing presidents.

Not saying that bad boy was not involved. Merely saying I found his conduct sensible. The lack of compassion could have been preoccupation. He had to hit the ground running and calm the fears of a completely freaked nation. Involved or not involved, at that moment he was the busiest he had ever been.

[kentuck]

24. Yes, I thought that was the impression he wanted to give...

But I picked up something else... No reason...I just did.

[DoYouEverWonder]

28. I think Johnson is another LIHOP

It wasn't his idea, or plan, but he didn't mind letting Poppy Bush's friends take care of their problems.

[onecent]

37. I was 18 at the time, and I THOUGHT THE same thing!!

[hang a left]

45. What about his insistence of having Jackie

come to the front of the plane and stand next to him while he was sworn in??

[Jawja]

74. My Grandmother, rest her soul,

said at the time of Kennedy's murder that LBJ had it done.

[diane in sf]

4. Sounds like coverup/disinformation to me.

Some sources I've read (sorry no links) have named Howard Hunt as one of the three guys on the grassy knoll in Dallas (one of the three "tramps"--the face bones in the pic are unmistakeable). Hunt has always been a Republican operative.

An additional interesting bit. Someone blew up a plane at O'Hare that his wife was on in the early 70s, she was carrying a big bundle of cash.

[rman]

54. coverup of what?

[formercia]

83. The boys thought JFK was one of them

and planned to go ahead with the Bay of Pigs. The Mafia and the Church controlled Cuba under Batista and they wanted it back. There was a lot of money involved, especially since Castro nationalized the industries controlled by the boys and they had lost Billions in 1950's dollars.The gambling and prostitution there was worth a couple of Billion a Year back them.

When JFK failed to deliver, it was the kiss of death for him.

The boys controlled the CIA then, just as they do now. I know because I got crossways with them too and I found out how little sense of humor they have when someone fouls their plans.

[Octafish]

106. Here are some links for background...

A. J. Weberman discovered the remarkable similarities. Check out his graphics-audio heavy website:

http://www.ajweberman.com/

Sherman Skolnick did an excellent job chronicling what happened in regards to Dorothy Hunt and the plane crash:

http://www.skolnicksreport.com/shistory.html

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKhuntD.htm

This is a difficult and complicated subject. Hope I could shed some light.

PS: A most hearty welcome to DU, diane in sf.

[lligrd]

5. Don't Be Silly

We all know Poppy Bush did it.

[mod mom]

6. Shifting the blame off his self?

[sandnsea]

7. Recycled rumor

I've heard that forever. It simply doesn't add up to me. Isn't it interesting that assassination attempts stopped as soon as Poppy became President??

[Peace Patriot]

15. The assassinations stopped as soon as the three main obstacles to the

Vietnam war profiteers were eliminated: JFK, RFK, MLK.*

I don't know who did it, but that's who benefited.


---------------------

*(And they may have started again in the leadup to the Iraq War, with the death of Paul Wellstone. Then they figured out how to put Bush/Cheney campaign chairmen and rightwing 'christian' nutballs in charge of vote counting, with "trade secret," proprietary programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls. Not only puts billions of dollars into the pockets of Bush Junta buds, but saves the black ops budget for other democracy-killing endeavors.)

--------------------

As for E. Howard Hunt, I hope he discloses WHY he was burglarizing/bugging the DNC/McGovern campaign--not that I would be inclined to believe anything he said.

[Hippo_Tron]

56. Wellstone had zero power to stop them from going to war

He may have been one of their biggest opponents but he wasn't an obstacle by any means. He completely abandoned any possible presidential aspirations because of his secondary progressive MS.

Republican Senators also die in office.

[vssmith]

58. At the time there was a battle for control of the Senate

Jeffords had turned independent and it was unclear which party was going to hold sway after the 2002 election. Coleman was leading but Wellstone was making up ground fast. Was there a conspiracy to kill Wellstone--probably not. Was there a potential motive--probably yes.

[Hippo_Tron]

81. A dead Mel Carnahan unseating Ashcroft would say that plan wouldn't work

Mondale would've easily won if not for the media's reaction to Wellstone's funeral. Jesse Ventura certainly didn't help either.

[shance]

90. Who's to say Mondale didnt win?

n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

101. Well for one he's not sitting in the US Senate right now

And Minnesota isn't a state that's exactly known for its Republican voter fraud considering it has gone blue in every election since 1976.

[Peace Patriot]

71. I disagree about Wellstone's power. His comeback was all about the war.

At that time, FIFTY-SIX PERCENT of the American people opposed the war. And he was the man. He had Bobby Kennedy's charisma, and he had pledged to lead the fight in the Senate to stop the invasion. 125 Congress members had voted against the Iraq War resolution. That compares to 2 who voted against the "Gulf of Tonkin" resolution (Vietnam) in 1964. Momentum was building against Bush. Wellstone's comeback was the key to stopping the war, because his comeback was all about the war. It was the most prominent and biggest expression of the peoples' opposition. The situation at the time was that Bush had the IWR, but he had promised to get UN support--which didn't happen. The UN opposed the Iraq invasion. At that point, it would have been possible to raise one hell of a stink about the invasion, and possibly even to stop it. World opinion was greatly opposed. The UN weapons inspectors were in Iraq in full force. (As you may recall, Bush preempted their report.) The American people were increasingly opposed, with a majority already opposed. (56% would be a landslide in a presidential election.) At the very least, the early occupation would have been better vetted, and funds held more accountable, if Wellstone had lived--and we might not be in the mess we are in now. You and I don't know what Wellstone would have decided about his MS, with a hundred thousand people slaughtered in Iraq in the initial bombing alone. He had the mildest form of MS, confined to the motor system in one leg, and requiring no medication. He was otherwise extremely healthy and energetic. We simply do not know what the presidential race would have been like, had he lived. I think everything would have been very different, whether he would have run for president or not. I've read the book about his plane crash, and I am about 80% convinced that he was assassinated, to take the steam out of the antiwar movement, which it did. It was an extremely demoralizing event. (The 20% hesitation is because the facts and evidence were covered up so quickly that it's difficult to know certain things--for instance, the FBI was never questioned about how they got to the scene so fast--there was no public hearing. All available evidence points to foul play--and when you combine that with Bush Cartel motive and M.O.--the stink gets overwhelming.)

[Hippo_Tron]

82. Robert Byrd and Ted Kennedy were also fierce opponents of the war

Not to mention Russ Feingold and Barbra Boxer. Their opposition did absolutely nothing to stop us from going into Iraq.

While the majority of Americans were opposed to going into Iraq without UN approval, Bush pretended that he had UN approval. Furthermore, as soon as the images of Saddam's statue being toppled were shown on TV the approval for the war skyrocketed and Bush was by all means headed for a second term in a landslide. Not until the insurgency started did the public really turn against the war.

And no I don't know for a fact what Wellstone would've decided about running for President. I do know that he opted out in 2000 largely for health reasons. Furthermore, I know that in an election that was all about national security a short man walking with a cane would have a damn near impossible time getting elected in the age of television. Wellstone was smart enough to know this. It may have stopped him from running it may not have. I do know that he didn't just jump into the Senate race in 1990, he planned his run for years and waited for the right moment. Certainly this was not the right moment.

I will say one thing, though. Wellstone would've been one hell of a force in the primaries. His combination of experience organizing grassroots support and his anti-war stance would've made Howard Dean pretty much irrelevant and he may have very well been able to defeat Kerry and Edwards as well.

[Octafish]

102. Ted Kennedy was scheduled to fly with Wellstone.

Earlier that day they had flown together. Wellstone was heading to the funeral of a friend's father. Kennedy headed elsewhere.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,66707,00.html

[Chemical Bill]

107. Well...

>Republican Senators also die in office.

I have a bit of a disagreement with that. I remembered hearing that twice as many Democratic senators have died in plane crashes as repugs. Googling brought up this:

Of 22 air crashes involving state and federal officials, 14 (64 percent) were members of the Democratic Party and 8 (36 percent) were members of the Republican Party. If the list was limited to only elected members of Congress, the total was eight Democrats and four Republicans. Six of the fatalities occurred during election campaigns. Of those, four were Democrats and two were Republicans.

http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/?itemid=837

This isn't the best of sources as far as the opinions included, but the facts cited seem trustworthy. Yes, it's a small sample, but I think this is as unlikely a coincidence as all of the anthrax letters going to Democrats.

Bill

[dbeach]

76. guess Poppy O is off the hook now???

bet he busted out the ole Noereiga stash of pure flakes and rocks
and had somethin sniffin to say with hunt.

W must be upset that poppy used it with a common criminal like hunt

BUT politics has ALWAYS been a big snowjob by flakes.

did'nt one of LBJ's gal pals just blame LBJ too???
nothing like loyalty of the royalty

funny how Ronnie Rayguns got popped a few rounds by Hinckleys kid
..and Poppy O was palsy with ole man Hinckley

BUT Hey no big deal ..move along nothing to see there

[sandnsea]

79. Reread

I wasn't letting Poppy off the hook.

[dbeach]

80. I understood

a lil beach sand floatin in my brain.

I met JFK and the fam in 1958

NVER recoverd form his murder
911 further traumatized me

rise of family bush
fall of family kennedy

"castles made of sand go out to sea

eventually.."

[Major Hogwash]

97. I tend to agree

If Hunt really wanted to set the record straight, he would have written his book 11 years ago and damaged the re-election chances of Bill Clinton. He would have had more impact writing a book blaming LBJ for JFK's death then than now.

As far as I'm concerned, this is just a last ditch attempt by Hunt to throw suspicion off of the actions of George Bush senior before and after JFK's assassination.

[alfredo]

8. Assassinating opposition Senators, then blaming it on

Muslims would have been a good way to seize control of the senate if it had worked.

Why did the administration take Cipro before the Anthrax attack when there was no indication that an Anthrax attack was coming?

[Rene]

61. That's a good point. The WH staff took Cipro the evening of 9/11.

I've always wondered about the 1st person who died in the Anthrax deal. The Magazine writer....he was the person who'd just published pictures of the bush twins at drunken parties.....and then his computer keyboard had anthrax sprinkled all over it. I think the later anthrax mailings/deaths were a ploy/decoy to throw off a more detailed investigation into why THAT man was targetted....which would hav led to 43's operatives. or 41's cia operatives/connections.

[alfredo]

75. I think the other targets like the magazine writer and

the New York tabloid were red herrings. The two Dem Senators were the prime targets.

[B Calm]

9. This is silly.. everyone one knows it was Dan Burton who assassinated him!

[Shakespeare]

10. I've always thought that LBJ, at a minimum, at least knew it was going to happen.

LBJ was one dirty mofo. I'm not particularly proud he wore our party's title.

[shance]

27. Could be, however Mr. Hunt is apparently connected to the crime through evidence?

And didn't his wife die in a plane crash with $100,000 with her on the plane?

[newsdude]

33. Any known connections between?

Johnson and Bush?

[Shakespeare]

35. They certainly shared connections, even if not directly. n/t

[Rene]

62. J Edgar Hoover was LBJ's next door neighbor in DC. They exchanged

blackmail information on everyone.

[Forrest Greene]

72. Texas

...which means oil.

[FlaGranny]

36. When Kennedy chose Johnson as

his VP I was flabbergasted. I was only in my early 20s at the time, but I remember that Kennedy and Johnson seriously hated one another.

[bananarepublican]

48. LBJ was definately 'in the know' at the very least.

Mac Wallace's, LBJ's personal 'mechanic', thumprint was found on one of the Texas School Depository's sixth floor.

JFK was killed by a large 'wolf-pack'. Among the conspirators was the; FBI, under the morally impeccable stewardship of J. Edgar Hoover; CIA, a dispicable rogues gallery if ever there was one (think Dulles, Angleton, Helms, Phillips et al); Joint Chiefs of Staff in cahoots with the infamous and still thriving military-industrial-complex; and finally, organized crime.

Given the above you'd have been hard pressed to find someone within the power elite of the early60's who didn't want JFK dead.

[tanyev]

12. Still working as a plumber for Nixon, then.

[Octafish]

13. E Howard Hunt once worked for Averell Harriman.

Harriman was business partners with George Herbert Walker, Prescott Bush and Allen Dulles.

Those names all should ring a bell in Dallas on November 22, 1963.

Along with LBJ's.

[aquart]

18. The Dulles brothers.

That's where my money is.

[hootinholler]

23. Thanks.

I didn't know there was a connection to Harriman. Seems maybe one of the plumbers is getting a conscience?

I've been hoping for a posthumous tell all from someone.

-Hoot

[shance]

26. If he was 'getting a conscience' wouldn't he then explain his role in it all?

And not blame someone else who is dead and a Democrat, as the Republicans always do?

[IndyOp]

16. Best video available...

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/04/337455.shtml?discuss

[mod mom]

20. It is definitely a must see. I believe that many who have witnessed the past six

years must understand how we arrived here before we can (hopely) rise above it. This historical information helps lead the way.

[hang a left]

64. Do you know how to order that video.

I really would like to show it to my parents since they WONT read.

[ShaneGR]

19. What evidence, if any, is there to link LBJ to Kennedy's death?

Other than motive, which is a big stretch, is there any direct evidence at all to support such a claim. You want my opinion, the mafia helfed elect Kennedy is 60. His brother went after the mafia. The mafia took revenge, on both of them.

[Greeby]

21. Hunt steps out of the shadows to say "LBJ did it"

Pardon me if I don't find him very convincing :eyes:

[shance]

25. I find the timing interesting as well. Some of the JFK controversy has been heating up

lately.

[hlthe2b]

29. umm hmm... FIrst GHWB's bizarre mention of Warren Report

at Ford's funeral and now Hunt comes out with his LBJ fingering...

LBJ may have known something was brewing... I don't know... There is the famous wink he gave someone on the plane returning to DC, just after he took the oath of office which many have made a lot of. Unseemly, but who knows?

But, given the documentation that GHWB WAS in Dallas that day (despite being the only person over the age of 10 at the time who can't recall), this is the line of questioning I'd like to see someone pursue...

[WinkyDink]

94. Nixon was there, also, and ALSO "couldn't recall".

[left is right]

30. may have, could have , could have been

doesn't sound like real evidence to me. It is no more than my speculation that the movement of GHWB on that day and we do know that their is a family connection between Hunt and the Bushes. Besides, Jacquie Kennedy never seemed to suspect LBJ, she called him frquently during the following years and he reportedly always took her call and Robert continued to work with him. And what benefit would lBJ have gained from his assassination? i always assumed that they were connected. Of course, I will never know for certain because I won't be buying/reading his book.

[H2O Man]

31. Note:

For years, Nixon and the Reich wing tried pinning the Diem assassination on JFK. E Howard Hunt even planted phony cables so stating in his White House safe.



What purpose could these serve, other than to blacken the Kennedy name? Try obscuring the trail of President Kennedy's assassins.





http://knowyourbfee.blogspot.com/2005/08/know-your-bfee-hitlers-bankers-shaped_04.html

[Virginia Dare]

32. How much did Poppy pay him?...n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. Baloney. Poppy Bush knows what happened to Kennedy....he just can't recall where he was the day

JFK was assassinated.:eyes:

[rman]

55. How about Poppy, JBJ and Hunt

were involved?
After all, there was more than one conspirator.

[Samantha]

38. Read Blood, Money & Power...How LBJ Killed J.F.K.

Written in 2003 by Barr McClellan, father of then-White House press secretary Scott McClellan.

Barr McClellan was an attorney in the law firm which represented Johnson from the inception of his political career. Johnson asked his personal attorney, Edward Clark, to handle the matter. McClellan worked with Clark over a period of many years. The evidence presented in the book is simply startling.

It also was the basis for the History Channel's presentation on the subject which outraged The Johnson family. The History Channel was forced to present a refutation by historians to discount the assertions made in the book. None of them addressed the literal points or evidence presented in the book; they simply talked about LBJ and said he obviously could not have been involved.

Once one learns of LBJ's total history, he or she will no longer disallow the possibility it was within his makeup to eliminate a President of the United States. One of the most compelling motives was his literal hatred of the Kennedy family and the fact he was facing almost immediate indictment over his dealings with the corrupt practices of Billy Sol Estes and Bobby Baker. An ascendancy to the Presidency would protect him from prosecution, so Johnson felt.

Johnson was the subject of a Grand Jury investigation in 1984. The Order in the case directly stated that he (Johnson) was one of the suspects in a murder, but that no further action could be taken since he was deceased. "Based on the testimony presented today, which was not presented to the previous grand jury, it is the decision of this grand jury, that Henry H. Marshall's death was a homicide, not a suicide. That the parties named as participants in the offense are deceased, and therefore it is not possible for the grand jury to return an indictment." This is a literal document presented in the back of the book referenced in the subject line as grand jury action on Johnson. It is the author's assertion that LBJ had to eliminate Henry H. Marshall, who was a participant in the assassination of President Kennedy, and here is the author's description of this exhibit (also pictured):

"30--Johnson subject to indictment for murder
Thirteen years after Marshall's vicious murder, the grand jury again reviewed the case and concluded it was not suicide but murder. Estes and Texas Ranger Clint People provided the key evidence. Johnson could not be indicted because he was dead. Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace also escaped indictment because they, too were dead." (at page 320)

An early chapter lists 18 people whose death LBJ either directly ordered or was a participant in. On the list was LBJ's own sister. She had the capacity to destroy LBJ's political prospects simply by revealing all she knew of his scandalous dealings, and obviously she was a risk LBJ could not afford to allow to survive (according to the author).

And Bobby Kennedy,

"On June 18, 1963, Robert Kennedy had publicly embarrassed Johnson. Johnson was chair of the Equal Employment Opportunity Office President Kennedy had set up by executive order. Robert Kennedy attended and openly attacked Johnson. The message was that the vice president had no future with Kennedy, with the Democratic Party, or in government. The public display underscored the fact that Johnson was not only afraid that he might get caught in the Estes or Baker scandals. He might be dropped from politics. At the time he simply could not take any more criticism, and his anger toward the Kennedy "boys" worsened." (at pages 184-185)

It is simply miraculous that the American public survived the tragedies of the the assassinations of John Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Jr. and Robert Kennedy and can analytically discuss today who or what might have caused these tragedies to befall these wonderful men. THE ONLY GOOD I CAN THINK OF THAT AROSE FROM THEIR PREMATURE DEATHS IS THAT WE AS A PEOPLE LOST OUR NAIVETY ABOUT THE INABILITY OF THOSE WHO GOVERN US TO PARTICIPATE IN INCOMPREHENSIBLY BARBARIC ACTS OF CRIMINAL CONDUCT. For those who were unconvinced that "The Ugly American" could truly exist as that book proclaimed, at least these losses forced them to contemplate the previously inconceivable.

[AZBlue]

39. Thank you!!! I was just about to post to this thread a question about this very book!

I couldn't remember the title and searching both amazon and barnes & noble came up with lots of books on both JFK and LBJ, but not this one. Thank you!!! I'm going to go buy it right now.

[Samantha]

40. Please let me know what you think after you read it

I pulled it out tonight and thought I should re-read it. It is just so compelling. The other salient point I learned was that Jackie commissioned her own private investigation about the death of her husband. She hired investigators from France. Their report is sealed until 50 years after her death. It so saddened me to learn this, since I will not be living on this earth when this report is made public. I think the public has the right to know but of course her sensitivities must have been for her children.

The implications of others involved is unbelievable. I will not spoil the book for you, but let me know after you read it if you are convinced.


Oops, upon reading my post, I believe it was Wallace, not Marshall, who the author accused of participating in the Kennedy assassination (it's been a couple of years since I read the book). The author thought Johnson had Wallace (a hit man with a heck of a resume) eliminated because of his inside knowledge of the deaths he (Johnson) had ordered.

[spooked]

41. Also, remember LBJs mistress Madeleine Brown

She wrote an amazing book called Texas in the Morning in which she says that the night before the assassination LBJ exploded in anger after a meeting attended by crime bosses and said about the Kennedys: "After tomorrow those SOB's Will Never Embarrass Me Again!"

Madeleine Brown is also here in an interview saying that LBJ knew what was going to happen in Dallas. They had a relationship for over 20 years and she even had a son by LBJ.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1929769365635576415&q=lbj+madeleine+brown&hl=en

[moondust]

42. Texas Mafia.

LBJ was "only a heartbeat away" from being the BIG BOSS. The temptation was too great for some power-craving Texans. Then the opportunity magically presented itself in Dallas and they couldn't resist.

[mykpart]

43. E. Howard Hunt - well, there's a reliable source for you!

[ftr23532]

46. Check out which secretive, scary, and supposedly Christian group several of the plumbers belong to

Check out this http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944968-1,00.html">1974 Time magazine article:

The God Network in Washington
Monday, Aug. 26, 1974

Just two days before becoming President of the U.S., amid the tense expectation of a Nixon resignation, Vice President Gerald Ford visited the office of House Republican Leader John Rhodes. What new political turn was being hatched, newsmen wondered, in this pivotal day of Ford's career? When the session was over the incredulous press heard that Ford had simply taken time out for a short prayer meeting with Rhodes, a Methodist, and a longtime Republican colleague from the House, Congressman Albert Quie of Minnesota, a Lutheran.

The prayers were not something special for that tumultuous day. The three men, plus former Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird, a Presbyterian, had been holding similar meetings weekly for three months, reviving a custom Ford, Laird and Quie had first begun in 1967. Quie says confidently that "we expect to continue," even with Ford in the White House—though the place and time will change.

Satan's Power. The Ford group is only one of an intricate web of groups and individuals—almost an underground network—stretching well across religious and political boundaries, all of them part of a small but growing spiritual renaissance in Washington. It involves both those who have been hoisted to power through Watergate and those who were toppled by it. Quie, for instance, also prays with a Monday morning group that includes Senator Harold Hughes, occasionally Senator Mark Hatfield, and—from January to July—Charles Colson. When Colson went off to prison last month to begin serving a one-to-three-year sentence for obstruction of justice, he carried with him three Bibles and the promise that his prayer-group fellows would keep in touch. Other members of the Watergate cast who have recently re-examined their faith:

> James W. McCord Jr., 50, whose letter to Judge John Sirica burst the Watergate dam, has told friends that sermons in suburban Washington's Fourth Presbyterian Church had a powerful impact on his decisions that winter. On the first Sunday of January 1973, McCord, a Methodist who had started attending the church only weeks before, heard the Rev. Richard Halverson, Washington's best-known evangelical preacher, talk about the power of Satan that tempted leaders to play God. The next week, when approached by White House Aide John Caulfield, McCord refused to plead guilty and remain silent.

> Jeb Stuart Magruder, 39, was accompanied by the Rev. Louis Evans Jr., of Washington's National Presbyterian Church, when he was sentenced in May for conspiring to obstruct justice. Last year after the Watergate affair had begun to unravel, Magruder joined one of the intimate "covenant" groups that Evans had started in order to feed the "spiritual hunger" in Washington. Jeb's wife Gail joined another (also attended by Mark Hatfield's wife Antoinette). The groups are small—typically only a dozen people who bind themselves to each other through eight principles or covenants. The principles include a broad sharing of time, ideas and possessions when another member needs them. His group is continuing Bible studies with Jeb by mail and visits while he is in prison.

...

There's some additional interesting info on the 'Fellowship' http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2894588">here. And on a a sidenote, be sure to check out the comments involving the Knights of Malta starting http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2894588#2895597">here. They're another interesting 'Christian' group out there.

[FedUpWithIt All]

47. Kennedy was in TX. because of....

This man, seen here winking at LBJ after the assassination.



His name is Albert Thomas. If it had not been for this winking man Kennedy would NOT have been in Dallas that day. He moved up a visit to coincide with Thomas' retirement dinner.

He and LBJ had a long history.

This is from an interview with Thomas' wife...

M: Were you involved with this trip when John F. Kennedy came to Texas in November of
1963 when he was killed in Dallas? Were you involved in any of that?
T: I sat by him that night at the dinner.
M: This was the one in Houston?
T: Yes.
M: Is it correct that both Lyndon Johnson as Vice President and John F. Kennedy were here in
Houston for a testimonial-type dinner for you and your husband? Is that right?
T: Yes, it came about--a group of people--Albert had been saying he was going to retire.

MORE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3029417&mesg_id=3031205

[BlueIris]

49. Geeze, did the "Castro did it" meme FINALLY get too old?

Blech. Spare me.

[struggle4progress]

51. The Rockefeller Commission in the 70's discussed whether Hunt whacked JFK

Chapter 19
Allegations Concerning the Assassination of President Kennedy

Allegations have been made that the CIA participated in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in Dallas, Texas, on November 22, 1963. Two different theories have been advanced in support of those allegations. One theory is that E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis, on behalf of the CIA, personally participated in the assassination ... The first of the theories involves charges that E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis, both convicted of burglarizing the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate in 1972, were CIA employees or agents at the time of the assassination of the President in 1963 ... E. Howard Hunt was an employee of the CIA in November 1963. He had been an employee of the CIA for many years before that, and he continued to be associated with the CIA until his retirement in 1970. Throughout 1963 he was assigned to duty in Washington, D.C., performing work relating to propaganda operations in foreign countries ... http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hunt_sturgis.htm

[Gabi Hayes]

87. you do know that McAdams is CIA?

so there

[struggle4progress]

88. All I cared about here was Hunt's alleged involvement in the assassination,

which might explain his interest in broadcasting other allegations.

If you know another online source for the Rockefeller Commission quote, or can show that the quote is inaccurate, of course, feel free to provide details ...

[Phrogman]

52. Scott McClellan's Dad knew LBJ had JFK murdered

http://www.rense.com/general41/jbj.htm
Look at the bastards winking at each other!

[Jim Sagle]

63. I don't see anything in that photo that looks like a wink.

[nicknameless]

53. Add to the famous *wink* photo -- LBJ's mistress telling of his involvement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79lOKs0Kr_Y

The night before the Kennedy assassination, Lyndon Baines Johnson met with Dallas tycoons, FBI moguls and organized crime kingpins - emerging from the conference to tell his mistress Madeleine Duncan Brown that "those SOBs" would never embarrass him again. It's a jaw-dropping deposition and it's the biggest JFK smoking gun there is - despite the fact that it has received little media attention.

[earth mom]

57. There was a thread about her story here on DU not that long ago...

but I can't find it now.

:tinfoilhat:

[RubyDuby in GA]

65. You can find it all in this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=6514

I knew exactly what you were talking about. I watched the whole interview. I was amused because just last night the whorish History Channel was hawking the single bullet theory and that Oswald had to be the only killer and he was the only one who knew anything about it. I call bullshit.

[blogslut]

59. Ghosts

It's like you never left, Howard. Still think the CIA is full of Democrats?

[lastliberalintexas]

66. Is this really Democratic Underground?

Holy shit, people are citing to such sources as McClellan and Hunt for legit proof that a Dem was involved in something illegal? :wtf:


Is it possible that LBJ was involved or knew what was going to happen? Of course. But seriously, until you can provide info from someone other than the people who want to divert attention away from themselves and their friends, I'll remain skeptical. Really, people. Did you also believe Poppy Bush and Reagan's assertions that they were both out of the loop in Iran Contra? If so, I've got this bridge for sale...

[rman]

92. You mean you think a Dem cannot do something illegal?

Or that DU should not mention it if it happens?

[Recursion]

99. LBJ takes some hate among some circles here

Both for Vietnam and, some will say, for offing JFK (not defending that viewpoint, simply pointing out that some here hold it).

[JackRiddler]

67. "Trying to push the blame on Johnson,

...thus distracting from his own role in the assassination, could have been a very tempting and logical move on Hunt's part."

[WiseButAngrySara]

68. Where is Octafish? I'm waiting for his comments! ....n/t

[WiseButAngrySara]

69. Oooopppssss! Posted too fast. ....n/t

[Octafish]

89. Kennedy, the Vietnam War, and Intelligence Failures

E Howard Hunt can only be pointing a finger at his old employer, the KKK-Wall Street-Big Oil-NAZI-Mafia-Commie gangsters at CIA.

They represent the interests of America's ruling klass, the Congressional-Military-Industrial Complex, AKA "The War Party."

Kennedy, the Vietnam War, and Intelligence Failures

-- Rex Bradford
-- Gary Aguilar

In the discussions over how the U.S. went to war in Iraq and the prospects for that conflict, the Vietnam War has been raised repeatedly. These discussions typically focus on the prospects in Iraq (e.g., "is it a quagmire?"), but rarely mentioned are the troubling details of how the decision to go to war in Vietnam was made. It is now generally conceded that Congressional authorization for President Johnson to pursue that war vigorously was granted in the wake of what we now know was an "intelligence failure" - the supposed second attack on U.S. naval vessels in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened. As in Iraq, there remain serious questions about how aggressively officials moved to use the mistaken reports without verifying them, in order to pursue desired policy goals. Also, it has long been known that the naval vessels in question were engaged in aggressive intelligence-gathering maneuvers, in support of OPLAN 34A, a program of covert attacks against North Vietnam.

What does this have to do with the assassination of President Kennedy?

For one thing, the authorization for the OPLAN 34A program is contained in NSAM 273, the first National Security Action Memorandum signed by President Johnson (on November 26, four short days after President Kennedy's murder, following an emergency meeting on Vietnam on the 24th). This NSAM was drafted the day before Kennedy's fateful motorcade ride in Dallas, but the draft version differs markedly in the scope of authorization for such a program, and in any case Kennedy never saw or signed it.

Beyond the above is the larger question of Kennedy's policies and plans in Vietnam. Here, serious gaps in the record have been filled in since the passage of the 1992 JFK Assassination Records Collection Act. The gaps have been filled in with more details on the plans for complete withdrawal from Vietnam which were drawn up in the spring of 1963, and initiated on October 11 with NSAM 263. This gave the order for an initial pullout of 1000 men before the end of 1963, an event which never occurred.

With the filling in of the record - why were these documents a state secret for 35 years? - the debate among historians has shifted. No longer is the issue whether there was a plan to withdraw - the question has moved to whether it was "serious enough" to survive the change in reporting of the battlefield conditions which occurred in the wake of Kennedy's murder, from optimistic to pessimistic. Some historians, including David Kaiser (American Tragedy) and Howard Jones (Death of a Generation) now argue that Kennedy was determined to withdraw despite a change in conditions, joining Peter Dale Scott, John Newman, and no less than Robert McNamara. Many mainstream historians and others - including Noam Chomsky whose book Rethinking Camelot is largely a rebuttal of this view - maintain that Kennedy's assassination was not a factor in the progress toward war in Vietnam.

Just like the questions swirling around how the U.S. went to war in Iraq, the questions about Kennedy and Vietnam should not be lightly brushed aside.

For more information, see:

Exit Strategy, by James K. Galbraith. The son of John Kenneth Galbraith argues that Kennedy was committed to unconditional withdrawal from Vietnam.

Rethinking Camelot, by Noam Chomsky. Chomsky's book-length rebuttal of the withdrawal argument is available online.

The Kennedy Assassinationa and the Vietnam War, by Peter Dale Scott. Scott wrote about this long before anyone else.

JFK, Vietnam, and Oliver Stone, by Gary Aguilar. Dr. Aguilar highlights the vociferous attack on Stone for presenting this viewpoint on Kennedy Vietnam policy in the film JFK.

Kennedy and Vietnam, on www.maryferrell.org. The new Mary Ferrell Foundation website features this issue, including links to essays and declassified documents, video clips of Peter Dale Scott, and more.

-- Rex Bradford
-- Gary Aguilar

http://www.jfkaccountability.org/2005/11/kennedy_the_vie.html

I dread to think what the future will bring when we see what the War Party has done in the past and the present.

Thank you for caring, WiseButAngrySara.

[WiseButAngrySara]

100. And thank YOU for keeping us abreast of the BFEE! ....n/t

[siligut]

70. Yup, and I think Hunt was on the grassy knoll. eom

[WI_DEM]

77. Bunch of Nonsence.

[Imagevision]

78. I believe the people who killed JFK also killed Mlk and RFK & also brought us 9-11...

[windbreeze]

95. I am with you

on this...100 percent
windbreeze

[Rex]

84. Ooopsie, did Poppy embarrass himself the other day?

Smells like damage control. :eyes:

[formercia]

85. Part of the 'Octopus'

http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/octopus.html

Hunt was just one of the suckers on a tentacle.

[GETPLANING]

91. James Files shot JFK from the grassy knoll

Files' testimony is Hunt's book in nine minutes.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5948291412077941224&q=james+files+kennedy

Then listen to this interview of Madeleine Duncan Brown. Jaw-dropping.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6962062879996612313&q=madeleine+duncan+brown

[bananarepublican]

96. He could well have been a member of one of three or four shooter teams in Dealey Plaza.

Who knows how many more teams lined the motorcade route before and after the area where the actual deed was done!

My strong personal belief is that the lack of accounting for what really happened has paved the way for "Synthetic Terror - Made in the U.S.A.".

Warren Commission Whitewash = 911 Commission Whitewash, ergo something worse than 911 probably lies ahead of us all.

Which of the prospective '08 presidential candidates has the balls to not only confront the truth, but also ensure the historical record is set straight? Hypocrisy and lies are destroying the country. Exposing the unvarnished truth will see America regaining its place as a beacon of hope to the world.

[rman]

93. So Hunt covers for the fact that LBJ was not top dog

in that affair, but rather that he was a tool - probably knowingly and willingly to a certain degree - for the big money powers that rule this world. Though it does seem Hunt presents it as speculation, not as fact.

[Recursion]

98. BFEE

One thing you always need to ask yourself in just about anything shady that went on in America in the 1960s or 1970s is: What was George H W Bush doing at that time?

The answers will in many cases surprise you.

[Octafish]

104. Evidence of Treason by members of the US Government

The following film was made at Love Field minutes before the assassination. It shows the Secret Service detail ORDERED OFF THE BUMPER of President Kennedy's limousine. One agent, Henry J. Rybka, is so shocked by the order he raises his hands in the universal "Why?" gesture three times. It is evidence that the Secret Service was ordered to stand down.

http://www.fugly.com/videos/5835/jfk-secret-service.html

This is the ugliest thing I've ever seen. But it made the remaining scales drop from eyes.

[Freddie Stubbs]

103. And I MAY be the reincarnation of Lyndon Baines Johnson

He died a few days before I was born.

[leesa]

105. Yeah, I'd believe those guys...they'd protect a Bush til death.