Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[hootinholler]

Who will guard the guards?

I've had an idea pinging around my noggin for a while, I've even posted about it before. I'm gonna try it one more time.

It seems to me we need a 4th branch of Government. One whose charter established by Constitutional Amendment whose sole power is to investigate the government. In this they must have absolute authority to view any piece of paper or other record, to receive any piece of information held or know by any individual who's salary is paid by the government, even indirectly. They shall be able to file cases in the courts that must be heard. A panel of inquisitors above the political fray.

The structure would be similar to the Supremes, excepting they would be term limited, say 12 years, and then would retire comfortably, very comfortably on our dime.

I agree with Frank Herbert in that it's not power that corrupts absolutely, it more that power attracts the corruptible, which leaves the titular question.

-Hoot

edit: dystypia

[originalpckelly]

1. What we need is an educated populace:

"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power."

--Thomas Jefferson.

[mmonk]

15. Too late for that.

Many Americans don't know the difference between the constitution and a roll of toilet paper.

[Mythsaje]

2. That's a Herbert quote I use frequently...

And I've long considered the viability of a citizen oversight commission, like a permanent federal grand jury, to do exactly as you suggest.

[hobbit709]

3. BuSab

[grasswire]

4. and how are they appointed?

Hmmmm?

[hootinholler]

5. Geeze, ya want me to solve it all in one post?

I don't know, perhaps the same as the Supremes? Perhaps we have the US Marshalls nominate them? Maybe the Supremes nominate them?

-Hoot

[papau]

7. And like the Supremes, the RW will focus on and achieve control of the group - so

what is accomplished by having such a group.

The founders went with multiple over-lapping governments with separate law and order administrations - all egged on by angry dog media. Well the media has been bought by the rich and is now toothless. Votes are stolen - as they always were - but is such volume and with such exactness that the rich are hard to remove from having their elected minions in power - but the NY Bankers, 13 years after the establishment of the first bank - in Pilly - almost put Aaron Burr in power, so what has changed?

You can't force democracy on wimps that see their future in kissing rich GOP ass as the right way to go.

And the separation of powers - if we still have that separation of powers despite the Bush push for a President who "administers" everything, including deciding what parts of a law passed by Congress shall be become the law of the land - seems the only defense against rampant corruption and abuse of power.

[hootinholler]

8. Then have the supremes name them unanimously...

Also the press is a canard in this regard in that they do not have the authority to demand to see anything.

The only thing I feel is that someone has to be able to examine anything and everything. Perhaps that is to be Congress' job, but, we've seen so much redacted even to oversight comittees.

-Hoot

[papau]

9. authority is granted by the citizens - and making fuss gets things done and is

therefore PROOF the media is a power - and the prior statement is not a canard - at least in my opinion! :-)

The next Pres can always examine the last - just like Carter investigated Area 51 because he was curious. And Congress, if permitted by the Courts, can investigate the executive. And Justices and DA's and Grand Juries can try to investigate - as they did after the killing of JFK.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

6. We do have a 4th branch of government

It's called the citizenry. Americans need to know enough to be able to stop their gov't from doing bad things. Unfortunately for at least half the citizenry, this is simply impossible. Too many don't care to learn. Why do you think wedge issues mean so much to politics?

[hootinholler]

12. Perhaps canard is the wrong word.

The press certainly doesn't have the authority to demand any document from anyone.

The press has been purchased piecemeal and consolidated.

-Hoot

[EvolveOrConvolve]

13. The press has definitely been purchased

But if I can find the truth (as an ex-conservative), anyone can. It takes work to research and read what's out there, and I just don't have a lot of faith in the American people to do what it takes to get educated.

I think a 4th branch would simply give the r's another piece of the government to purchase.

[DemoTex]

10. Yep, now that the Fourth Estate has abdicated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Estate

[hootinholler]

11. More like subjugated, but I have to agree they've abandoned their civic duty.

There are a few exceptions, but those voices seem to get quashed or appear in odd places.

-Hoot

[DemoTex]

14. Thanks. "Subjugated" works better for the big picture.

But "abdicated" is applicable too, know what I mean?

[EFerrari]

18. When you say "civic duty" you remind me of a Howard Zinn line.

I was watching one of his speeches on LINK TV and he said (roughly) "There is no national security. There is their security and there is ours. There is no "national defense", there is the defense of their interests and there is the defense of the people."

Imho, same applies to the media. There is no "civic duty". There is the ethic we believe and there is the corporate reality.

Cynical, sure, but I've never seen a media outlet hire anyone to fullfil their civic duty. The sooner we learn that, the better off we are to deal with this mess on our hands.

[hootinholler]

20. That's a concept that's hard to get my head around...

But it does indeed make sense.

-Hoot

[EFerrari]

22. Me, too, Hoot. I have to read Zinn to really take it in. n/t

[MyshkinCommaPrince]

16. Frank Herbert

Sounds like you're proposing Herbert's Bureau of Sabotage.

[hootinholler]

17. Well, I must say he had some interesting ideas about power and governance.

I don't remember the Brureau of Sabotage though, care to enlighten me?

-Hoot

[MyshkinCommaPrince]

19. BuSat

In Whipping Star and The Dosadai Experiment, a key plot element is the Bureau of Sabotage, which is charged with keeping government in check by any means necessary. It functioned as part of the system of governmental checks and balances in the novels. Herbert used the discussion of the bureau and its purpose to go off on occasional tangents about the dangers of government (which read kind of like libertarian rants, to my simple mind). When I read your post, I immediately thought of BuSab, and I laughed when I noticed that you actually mention Frank Herbert. :) Whipping Star was a nice science fiction novel, fascinating and imaginative. Dosadai was rather bleak, IMO.

[hootinholler]

21. I'll have to check it out.

Thanks for the title, one more to read.

-Hoot