24 Do you think it's possible?

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

I watched the 24 season opener last night. I've always really liked this show. But I watched it last night with a different eye. Do you suppose that a show like 24 is purposeful propaganda to demonstrate the necessity at times, of torture. And that a stealty, secretive government is just trying to protect us both from real danger and the harsh reality of what it takes to protect us?

I think it might well be.

[mikelewis]

1. It's Rush Limpballs and Glenn Becks favorite show...

...nuff said?

[radfringe]

5. ahhh - that explains

why my dad is all hyped up to watch it... I suspected it was something that rush was pushing

he usually just watches FAUX spews / O'reilly etc., but he was very interested in watching it last night. unfortunately for him - we had a big b-day party at the house last night and his VCR is broken

[YellowRubberDuckie]

43. Yeah, but they don't completely understand it.

It's too cerebral for them. All the like is the violence. It goes far deeper than that. And it also makes the administration look like idiots most of the time.
Duckie

[VOX]

53. Per the NYT, 1/12/07: "For obvious reasons, the series is a favorite of the Bush administration..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/12/arts/television/12twe...
TV Review | '24'
Bombers Strike, and America Is in Turmoil. It’s Just Another Day for Jack Bauer.
By ALESSANDRA STANLEY
<snip>
Torture, presented with gusto and almost no moral compunction, is an increasingly popular way of gathering intelligence on “24.” If anything, the new season seems even more intent on hammering home the message that torture is necessary in the war against terror, and that despite what some experts claim, torture works.

At one point, Jack plunges a knife into a suspect’s shoulder, then relents, convinced that the man will not talk. A more ruthless associate disagrees and plunges the knife into the captive’s knee, ripping upward until the man screams out the location of his leader.
<snip>
Then again, the meddlesome naiveté of civil rights purists is also a leitmotif on “24.” In Season 4, a lawyer for Amnesty Global is dispatched by a terrorist mastermind to free a suspect before he can be interrogated, and the government lets the terrorist walk away. (Jack quit the Counter Terrorist Unit so he could break the suspect’s fingers as a private citizen and leave his bosses plausible deniability.
<snip>
The televisions at C.T.U. headquarters and the White House are tuned to Fox News. When a rival cable network is shown, the report is brief and labeled CNB.

For obvious reasons, the series is a favorite of the Bush administration and many Republicans. Last season, Senator John McCain made a cameo appearance (despite his objections to torture), and in June the Heritage Foundation, a conservative research group in Washington, held a panel discussion titled, “ ‘24’ and America’s Image in Fighting Terrorism: Fact, Fiction, or Does It Matter?” The guests included Ms. Rajskub, Rush Limbaugh and Michael Chertoff, the secretary of homeland security.
<snip>
- - - - - -

[Junkdrawer]

2. And when the History Channel isn't showing outright propaganda...

it runs Armageddon/End of the World/Hell & Brimstone/Yeah Military documentaries.

24 (by 7)

[harveyw]

3. I stopped watching 24 for that reason a long time ago. They have become

a propaganda show for the Bush administration and we all know how little it takes for the brainwashed to confuse reality with fiction.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

4. No.

Last night's show actually showed Jack Bauer reluctant to use torture and in fact, repulsed by it.

[morgan2]

6. if you think 24 doesnt show torture to be necessary you're crazy

they throw in the occasional bad experience with it, but overall its used to save the day many times. 24 went downhill the season they started showing all the news clips being from foxnews, instead of the fictional news network they started with. A show like 24 can't really work when they try to make the enemy to real, because its going to alienate people who disagree with the world view. Keeping to plots where the enemy is some more abstract enemy not aligned with a religion or country give it a broader appeal.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

8. Actually, some enemies have been aligned with a specific religion or country.

Season 4 dealt with Islamic terrorists, as does Season 6 so far.

I didn't disagree with the fact that they often show torture as necessary -- I was disagreeing with the fact that said torture is enabling the Bush administration's methods.

And why wouldn't the show feature clips from Fox News? The show airs on Fox, after all. This kind of cross-promotion is nothing new at all.

[babylonsister]

7. No. I think the show points out both sides of the argument. *Spoiler*

Last night, Karen, in the prez's office, was very concerned with detention centers and discrimination. Also, the prez's sister who erased the files (I didn't catch what organization she worked for) was very frightened over the power of the government.
Yes, there's torture, but it's a TV show; you know what you're going to get before it airs if you've ever seen it before. I can hopefully separate fact from fiction.

[sam sarrha]

10. I can, but the country is AWASH in Propaganda and no child will be spared brainwashing.. the Tense

emotional reinforcement of their propaganda message will stick like glue to our dumbed down populace.

WAKE UP... there is NOTHING BUT REICH WING PROPAGANDA ON TV, THE RADIO OR IN PRINT.. there are some rare exceptions and they are being removed one by one with someone financing extremist christian groups to buy out the AAR stations around the country.

Air America is the ONLY VOICE of reason and truth in the nation that i have found on one channel.. i hope there are others, but i haven't found one.

24 is a psychologically constructed propaganda machine.. using high emotional content to reinforce..nay GLUE the message in the back of your brain.. them the que's are prompted later in other propaganda messages.. i was just listening to it in the other room and it was so obvious i had to go down stairs and turn up the satellite radio

[dogday]

14. Not to mention corruption in the WH

Last season the President himself was involved.. It looks like this year it will be someone close to the President....

[NewJeffCT]

27. It's not just "24", though, torture is a Hollywood staple

There seems to be a lot of movies & TV shows where the "good guy" reluctantly decides to engage in torturing the bad guy in order to get vital information. It might be more intense on "24", but it's still the "bad cop" routine.

I'd love to see the twist where the "good guy" reluctantly tortures the bad guy, only to have the bad guy reveal the wrong info, and BAM, terror incident happens.

It's happened enough in the movies/tv that most people don't care that much that Team Bush is using torture on prisoners because we've been desensitized to it.

[mnhtnbb]

9. "Fightin' them over there so they don't have to fight them here"

Fox wanted to graphically remind people of just what fighting them over here would be like.

And Jack is back! Killing the enemy by taking a bite out of his neck?
How do the writers think this stuff up? Have they heard stories of this really happening?

[The2ndWheel]

11. He was a Lost Boy

Just kickin' it old school.

[aikoaiko]

16. Maggots, Michael. You're eating maggots.

:headbang:

[nyrnyr1994]

58. You should have joined us, Michael!

[hlthe2b]

12. DId you never see Silence of the Lambs?

straight out of Hannibal Lector's playbook...LOL

[mnhtnbb]

20. Guess I'd forgotten that.

[mmonk]

13. Yeah, I don't watch that show.

The precepts it promotes are pretty much anathema to our constitutional concepts and fanciful.

[Tektonik]

15. Where the show sometimes glorifies torture

It as well displays the corruption of government officials, so I guess it's a toss up. It's just a very well made show that I've been enjoying since season 3

[BushOut06]

18. You think it's a very well made show?

They use the exact same plot points over and over. It's like they have a template for each season, they just interchange the names of the bad guys, throw in a new head honcho, and new threat. It's classic Shake-and-Bake programming.

You can expect to find the following in any season of '24':

- awkward personal relationships that interfere with official duties
- extreme use of force (torture) to derive vital information
- Chloe going behind someone's back to help Jack
- CTU and/or President's staff infiltrated by a mole
- following up on a lead, arriving at destination right when Something Bad is about to happen

[mnhtnbb]

21. It is formulaic BUT they keep you guessing how Jack will survive!

The show runs on the essential elements of conflict and tension, and does it really well.

[rman]

25. But not guessing as to weather or not he will survive - compare with "Syriana"

Same topic as 24 basically: spooks, deep state, high stakes.

..where the good guy finds out he's been a bad guy and ends up being killed while trying to save a bad guy who turned out to be a good guy.. or something like that.

http://syrianamovie.warnerbros.com/
http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/syriana/

[Strelnikov_]

30. "He's got to stop this, he's got to stop with the memos"

And basically nearly everybody protecting their job by covering their ass by not making waves.

That is reality.

[halobeam]

41. I get that point, but then according to your theory,

You can interchange love stories, .. fall in love, guy messes up or girl gets sick or vice versa. Then they either forgive/or don't, or die or get better. The end. Whats the point then.

Its in the ART. The writing, the acting, the special effects/the scenery..filmography.

Personally, I'm really tossed at this point with 24. They are walking a tightrope with issues that are too TODAY, if you get me, and I don't know yet if I'll stay with it. I know I didn't like their dedication to their first episode to be to real soldiers who died in this controversial war. Fiction should stay fiction. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but it didn't sit well with me. I don't like their blurring of reality... Fox news on the tv on their show, etc... (Yeah, I know it's their station so they CAN,).. but guess I'm sick of people doing questionably ethic things because they CAN.

Eh. The more I think about it, the more I get upset with the show. Last night when it ended I said I wouldn't watch it again. I then read threads here on DU with people who love it and they made some good points, so I am trying to keep an open mind. One point was the sister of the president's storyline about civil rights being stripped away, being unconstitutional. But maybe it's just all to PRESENT right now. Hell, Mash waited a couple of years after Nam. Maybe the timing for 24 is just going to hurt them in the process.

Many mixed feelings with people I talk to about this.

[RamboLiberal]

50. The military has often provided 24 with helicopters

jets, etc. I'm betting that dedication was to pilots who had helped them in a previous season while stationed stateside and were unfortunately KIA in the war.

I wish you paranoid DU'ers who don't like 24 would just not watch it and let the rest of us DU'ers who enjoy it just watch it w/o having to argue with your :tinfoilhat: paranoia!

Good grief, so Limpballs likes it. He likes the Steelers too, so I guess I can't be a Steeler fan either.

[halobeam]

62. thanks for the label.

btw... didn't realize I had the Power to not "let you watch" your show. Was putting my opinion in, just like you have the right to do. But without insulting opposing positions. Guess you need to work on that.

[aikoaiko]

17. I think is more likely art imitating life

...or at least what the majority of American people already accept or want from their government.

[w13rd0]

19. I've watched every season...

...and I must say, if our Anti-Terrorist forces are even a TENTH as incompetent as these borons, then we're in deep shit. Then again, the "enemy" every season is equally inept. Just HOW MANY SEASONS do we have to discover there's a "traitor working in CTU" and he's using a cell phone to keep in contact with the terrorist leader? Cell phone blockers have been around for a decade. I've worked in many "white rooms" where the stakes were lower and their security was higher. And then of course there's the "let's track this guy walking around via satellite". Oh, but just keep a couple foam bricks handy and it's a barrel of laughs.

Oh, and the product placement, what a hoot! And that Jack Bauer. Someone please put that poor man out of his misery. Time and again the fate of Western Civilization As We Know It is put upon his shoulders, and he's such an emotional and physical fuckup. To date, he has had to "kill himself" by inducing a heart attack and being later revived like, at least three times. How much brain damage is that? Shot, stabbed, drowned, every bone broken, all his teeth pulled. But all he needs is a shave and he's good as new and ready to leap from rooftop to rooftop.

Eyiii!

[mnhtnbb]

22. Yeah, but you're hooked, aren't you?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. Yes! How DARE This Non-Real TV Show Be Not Real! How DARE They!

:eyes:

[Seen the light]

23. I COMPLETELY disagree

Have you ever listen to Kiefer Sutherland comment on that very subject? He's said that people from all parts of the political spectrum take what they see happen on the show with regards to torture and take it to fit their own personal beliefs.

Case in point, our hero Jack Bauer was ruthlessly tortured by the Chinese for years and we certainly don't have the moral high ground anymore in criticizing them. That's the price Americans have to pay when they torture. They can't complain when others do it to them.

[Phredicles]

24. I've wondered that myself.

I know it's :tinfoilhat: thinking, but such are the times we live in.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. Sometimes, A Show Is Just A Show. And In This Case, One Of The Best Shows On TV.

Can't wait for the next 2 hours tonight!

[greenbriar]

28. I do not watch it because limpballs loves it

it s all I need to know

[Junkdrawer]

29. If you believe that Big Money has taken over the news media...

do you really think that the entertainment media would be overlooked? :shrug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. i saw the show yesterday and thought it was racist crap

[Seen the light]

32. How so? nt

[halobeam]

42. They did have neighbors looking into neighbors.....

That crazy ass dude going after a KID of a "suspected"terrorist (as I understood it, only because he was Arab)... and then turning out "being right" and then being killed by the kid. What a shocker!!! NOT. Hey, the message to a brick brain reads: Note your neighbors of the "other" kind, and when in suspicion, kick the door in, kick CHILDRENS' asses through coffee tables and in the end, you just may very well have been right... rinse ... repeat... NOTE your neighbors of the "other kind, etc.

I agree with you.

[Armstead]

33. Not propaganda but a right-wing worldview

IMO it is not blatant propaganda in the conspiratorial sense.

But it does reflect a right wing worldview in the assumptions of its creators.

[Ignacio Upton]

37. Isn't one of its writers going to write

Faux's right-wing version of TDS?

[flashlighter]

35. It's a TV show, not the news.

I also watch "Heros", but I don't think cheerleaders can regenerate.

[w13rd0]

36. Speak for yourself!

I've seen at least a dozen regenerating cheerleaders. Some of them even seem to be capable of spontaneous asexual reproduction (i.e. cloning).

[undeterred]

38. I watched the first season and I liked it

It was a great vehicle for Kiefer Sutherland to show what he can do. But the story lines have gotten more and more far fetched over the years- I pop in once in a while and its hard to follow. It seems to be based on a lot of paranoia. Great as action television, but a distorted view of reality. I've got it on tonight because its more interesting than the awards show, but thats not saying much.

[athena]

39. Here are some good articles on torture and why 24 is unrealistic.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051226/kim
This one is for subscribers only, but here is an excerpt:

24's absurd plot and gimmicky premise indulge the "ticking bomb" scenario so commonly invoked by apologists for real-life torture. When Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz risibly proposed that judges ought to issue torture warrants in the "rare 'ticking bomb' case" (which, as even he admits, has never occurred in the United States), he might as well have been scripting 24's next season. It's not just Dershowitz. Taking a page from so many James Bond scripts, University of Chicago law professor and federal judge Richard Posner writes, "If torture is the only means of obtaining the information necessary to prevent the detonation of a nuclear bomb in Times Square, torture should be used." He further argues that "no one who doubts that this is the case should be in a position of responsibility." Since this philosopher's dilemma is streamlined to resemble film treatments, there's no messy reality to deal with, no shaky evidence, no fallibility. The problem with this scenario is not just that it starts down a slippery slope but that it allows a plot dreamed up by Hollywood to determine the limits of moral authority. As a flight of fancy, the ticking-bomb story tells us nothing about torture's actual application and everything about how we would like law enforcement to behave in a state of emergency in which the stakes are dire, the information perfect and the authorities omniscient.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030331/press
You don't have to be a subscriber to view this one.

... in the real world, governments don't just torture ticking time bombs: They torture their enemies, under circumstances that routinely stray from the isolated, extreme scenario. Even the most scrupulous regime is bound to do so, for the simple reason that nobody can know for certain whether a suspect really is a ticking bomb. "There's an inevitable uncertainty," explains Georgetown law professor David Cole, the author of Terrorism and the Constitution and a forthcoming book on September 11 and civil liberties. "You can't know whether a person knows where the bomb is, or even if they're telling the truth. Because of this, you end up going down a slippery slope and sanctioning torture in general." So while Cole and Nussbaum can imagine scenarios where torture might constitute a lesser evil, both favor a "bright line," in Cole's words, banning the practice.

....

To insist that the ban on torture should be absolute ought not to lead one to deny that this position comes with certain costs. It is probable that Israeli security forces have prevented some suicide bombings over the years by subjecting Palestinians to beatings and shakings, just as the French crushed the National Liberation Front during the Battle of Algiers partly by torturing (and killing) many of its members. In democratic societies, however, it is understood that, as the Israeli Supreme Court noted in its 1999 decision banning torture, "not all means are acceptable." Torture, in this sense, is hardly unique: Most rights--free speech, privacy, freedom of assembly--entail potential costs by limiting what governments can do to insure order. Holding the line on torture should thus be viewed in the context of a broad debate about where to draw the line between liberty and security, and whether, in the aftermath of September 11, America is willing to stand by its professed values.

Those who advocate crossing the line frequently invoke the famous warning from Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson that, however much we value our liberties, the Bill of Rights should not become "a suicide pact." But as real as the danger of Al Qaeda may be, few would argue that it constitutes an existential threat to the nation. As the world's wealthiest and most powerful country, the United States has enormous resources at its disposal and countless tools with which to wage its war on terror. In this respect, it's worth asking why brutal CIA interrogation methods could be considered necessary for our security--while adequately funding homeland security is not.

As a tool for collecting information, moreover, torture is notoriously ineffective (since people in pain have the unfortunate habit of lying to make it stop) and has done little to solve long-term security threats. Witness modern Israel--or for that matter France in Algeria ....

(Emphases mine.)

[pink-o]

40. Personally, I love 24...

...and so do a bunch of my (very diverse) friends. In fact, my Muslim friend was so excited over the premiere, he had a party for it last night, and we all chowed down on Samosas, Chipatis and Korma.

My other friend who's hooked is from Shanghai. Their love for the show has done a whole lot to assuage my own liberal guilt!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

45. I completely love it too...

Although I really hate the blonde woman who was the head of homeland security last season. And I haven't decided it I like/trust Nadia, the new little piece of eye candy that works in CTU.
I love Chloe.
Duckie

[fujiyama]

46. I have some Muslim friends that watch it too

We even joke about stereotyping and the RW subplots, especially in season 4. This looks like it will have some more of that.

The only hope is people can separate fiction from reality and it is disturbing to think it can influence policy. I agree that it unfortunately might alter people's perception on such issues as torture, which in real life is not an effective means to gather information.

The show is entertaining and a great ride for about an hour relying on outrageous plot twists to keep people watching...But it's completely over the top and ridiculous. Have you noticed how blatant they are with product placement? Sprint, Toyota, etc... I'm personally just bored of the Muslim terrorist plot lines though, and I hate cheesy political philosophical debates thrown into the TV show. They come off incredibly simplistic and shallow.

I'll keep watching because it's got a great hook though - and I want to see what Jack will do with the blue tooth guys.

[RamboLiberal]

51. Hell I get a laugh at all the inter-office backstabbing

and High School jealousies at CTU - they make my office look sane.

[Cleita]

44. Your words. Exactly why I stopped watching it a season ago. n/t

[lovuian]

47. Definitely a propoganda movie

its timing was just too perfect... Looking into my Crystal Ball mutiple dirty bomb attack over America ... something Cheney hinted at a year ago ... gets closer and closer

[VOX]

48. Rupert Murdoch owns the Fox Network, home of "24." Viewer discretion is advised. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

49. I don't blame 24 for the fact that people are morons and think it's real

24 is about as realistic as James Bond. Hell, Bond is almost more realistic because there is at least a real chain of command and you don't have the Prime Minister picking up the phone saying, "Get me 007". The show isn't propaganda just because it's on FOX. FOX also has Family Guy, The Simpsons, American Dad all of which are pretty critical of the Bush administration. Not to mention House which isn't overtly political but it does bring up ethical issues that involve some critical thinking which is kind of the antithesis of propaganda.

ABC's Path to 9/11 bullshit was a good example of propaganda. 24 is not.

[VOX]

52. 24 is stocked with images/messages that are straight from the RW playbook...

And it's been doing so for years. Entertaining? Sure, but propaganda isn't necessarily wrapped in a straightforward package a la ABC's pitiful "Path to 9/11." Search around a bit on the Web re this topic-- here's just a very small sample:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/12/arts/television/12twen.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
TV Review | '24'
Bombers Strike, and America Is in Turmoil. It’s Just Another Day for Jack Bauer.
By ALESSANDRA STANLEY
<snip>
Torture, presented with gusto and almost no moral compunction, is an increasingly popular way of gathering intelligence on “24.” If anything, the new season seems even more intent on hammering home the message that torture is necessary in the war against terror, and that despite what some experts claim, torture works.

At one point, Jack plunges a knife into a suspect’s shoulder, then relents, convinced that the man will not talk. A more ruthless associate disagrees and plunges the knife into the captive’s knee, ripping upward until the man screams out the location of his leader.
<snip>
Then again, the meddlesome naiveté of civil rights purists is also a leitmotif on “24.” In Season 4, a lawyer for Amnesty Global is dispatched by a terrorist mastermind to free a suspect before he can be interrogated, and the government lets the terrorist walk away. (Jack quit the Counter Terrorist Unit so he could break the suspect’s fingers as a private citizen and leave his bosses plausible deniability.
<snip>
The televisions at C.T.U. headquarters and the White House are tuned to Fox News. When a rival cable network is shown, the report is brief and labeled CNB.

For obvious reasons, the series is a favorite of the Bush administration and many Republicans. Last season, Senator John McCain made a cameo appearance (despite his objections to torture), and in June the Heritage Foundation, a conservative research group in Washington, held a panel discussion titled, “ ‘24’ and America’s Image in Fighting Terrorism: Fact, Fiction, or Does It Matter?” The guests included Ms. Rajskub, Rush Limbaugh and Michael Chertoff, the secretary of homeland security.
<snip>
http://www.democrats.com/node/2486
"24" Hr Thriller Propaganda - On FOX
Submitted by blue planet on January 10, 2005
<snip>
They then proceed to whore out and capitalize on last year's shocking beheading footage, just like they pimped out 9/11. (I actually saw one of the beheadings last year on the web and I still can't get the image out of my mind.) They recreated the horror in detail. Even the type of fencing used to restrain the prisoner Secretary of Defense Father figure, is similar to the fence wiring actually used by the foreign terrorists in Iraq, not jail bars that the show typically would have used. The show then ends with a recreated web-cast scene that perfectly re-conjures up the beheadings of last year.

Remember, the propaganda theme of 24 last year was WMD, this year it's beheadings and kidnappings!

Brave New World we live in. Our minds are becoming the latest enemies to the war on terror. Let's not think anymore because it's not conducive to the War on Terror. Even our Entertainment has to have its slant.
<snip>
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2481/
January 27, 2006
Jack Bauer and the Ethics of Urgency
By Slavoj Zizek
<snip>
In the “war on terror,” it is not only the terrorists but the CTU agents who become what philosopher Giorgio Agamben calls homini sacer—those who can be killed with impunity since, in the eyes of the law, their lives no longer count. While the agents continue to act on behalf of a legal power, their acts are no longer covered and constrained by the law—they operate in an empty space within the domain of the law.

It is here that we encounter the series’ fundamental ideological lie: In spite of this thoroughly ruthless attitude of self-instrumentalization, the CTU agents, especially Jack, remain “warm human beings,” caught in the usual emotional dilemmas of “normal” people. They love their wives and children, they suffer jealousy—but at a moment’s notice they are ready to sacrifice their loved ones for their mission. They are something like the psychological equivalent of decaffeinated coffee, doing all the horrible things the situation necessitates, yet without paying the subjective price for it.
<snip>

http://www.ourmedia.org/node/152987
Jack Bauer, the clever Fox, spins the ethics 24/5
Submitted by CyMeP on January 30, 2006 - 4:00pm.
<snip>
Here we see someone torturing people all the time because that sense of urgency is hammered into our brains, but by the nature of this series there will always be an emergency and therewith the justification for the US to torture anyone who stands or maybe only potentially stand in their way. The peak of that logic was found in season 4 where Arabs are the bad guys (yet again, to sustain that simplifying concept of the enemy), a human rights activist or lawyer is seen as nothing but a nuisance in the 'war on terror' , and it is made to look nothing but heroic of Jack to illegaly torture this protected human behind the scenes 'privately'. Next we even see Jack Bauer continuing his illegal mission and the ones who keeps him from doing it is then set out to be an undecisive and weak president - weak because he has moral doubts about violating human rights in the strongest ways possible.

It is important for (the) us to become aware of the fact that such underlying baselines are not the status quo of reality, but hidden propaganda - trying to set the grounds to be able to easily lead the dumb masses - the people who have been too remote from the danger of being tortured themselves, simple minds who like it simple, so they are made to beleive that everyone tortured is bad and therefore deserves it.

This is the logic of the end which justify any means which justifies all evil, from Terorrism to the Nazi-3rd Reich and this is the reason why the USA is increasingly disliked in the world for practising what they seem to condemn.
<snip>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-kim/pop-torture_b_11980.html
Richard Kim 12/10/2005
Pop Torture
<snip>
In casting torture as melodrama, 24 reverses the dehumanizing mode of actual torture and replaces it with something familial and social. So blasé are these victims of torture that they come as close as one can to consenting to it. Less focused on torture's instrumentality, the narrative upshot of torture in this rendition of 24 is that it troubles, deepens and ultimately clarifies personal relationships. In this instance, popular culture construes torture as a humanizing social ritual enmeshed not in war and violence but in the drama of family and love life.
<snip>
Following the Abu Ghraib scandal, Rush Limbaugh defended the troops' "emotional release" as just a harmless "good time" that was "no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation." In his independent report, former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger characterized Abu Ghraib as "'Animal House' on the night shift." Abu Ghraib was, of course, no Skull and Bones tomb or National Lampoon's production. Beyond essentially exonerating military command, such analogies ignore the nonconsensual nature of torture and neatly invert its dehumanizing process. In doing so, apologists exploit the uncanny resemblance between torture and intimacy. When one consents to participate in or witness ritualized violence--whether in the bedroom or on the playing field--one expects to emerge from it more fully human,
<snip>

[Hippo_Tron]

54. Sorry, I'm still not buying it

24 is nothing more than fantasy whether or not Limpballs promotes it. Again, Family Guy trashes the Bush on a regular basis and Republicans could argue that it is liberal propaganda. The fact is that it's not, the purpose of Family Guy is to entertain people.

People watch 24 for the same reason they watch Clint Eastwood movies and James Bond movies. It is fantasy, period. The problem is not 24. The problem is that Americans know nothing about counter-terrorism and they don't realize that ticking time bomb scenarios don't exist in real life and that Jack Bauer's means of persuasion don't work in real life because when people are being tortured they will tell you what you want to hear which is not necessarily the same thing as the truth.

[fujiyama]

55. Islamic terrorists make for "safe" villains

Personally, I'm kinda bored with them, because the plots end up being similar (they're going to destroy another few cities, blah blah blah)...and Jack saves the world one more time.

But it's a hell of a ride. It's like crack. It has a hook if you watch it from early on.

Propaganda? Maybe so, in some ways. I find its frequent use of torture appalling, as well its justification.

But are liberals always the bad guys? Not really. Frequently corporate crooks are responsible for aiding and abetting terrorists, or responsible for the attacks in the first place - namely oil and gas interests, and defense contractors. In the show, a black Dem. president is made to be decent and virtuous, while the republican that follows (well after the assassination of another republican), is made to look like a bumbling incompetent fool at first, and then later, responsible for attacks himself (MIHOP).

Hard to pigeonhole the show. I won't argue about cheesy acting, formulaic plots, and wooden scripts, but those claiming its RW propaganda without watching it are assuming too much.

[BigBearJohn]

56. After tonite's show I am convinced it is just another propaganda arm of this administration.

I mean, for pete's sake, they show suicide bombers blowing up buses
and subways -- then end tonite's show with a mushroom cloud blowing
up in California.

Be scared. Be very scared. This may be coming to YOUR neighborhood.
Good thing we have a president who is fighting the terrists. (SARCASM)

[nolabels]

57. Sorry, wrong # association on the thread, thought this was the sports forum

http://slamonline.com/online/category/the-magazine/

[Greyhound]

59. Please tell me that you forgot a smiley or are in some sort of supervised

institution.

There is nothing realistic or real-lite about the show. Any danger that we are in (and it is far less than you apparently believe) is the direct result of our governments actions for over a century, you just can't go around killing, stealing, and pillaging for decade upon decade without creating enemies.

Just try to realize that everything you think you know about our government, and its history, is wrong and has been deliberately distorted to make you think we are the good guys.

[Greyhound]

60. Server choked, dupe. n/t

[HuffleClaw]

61. it IS on FOX ?

that alone should explain it.