For any DUer that says Obama can't win because of his African American heritage...

[RiverStone]

I'm thrilled that Barack Obama seems to be preparing to enter the Presidential race!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/16/obama.papers/index.html

I believe that regardless of what his chances are of prevailing, he infuses the field with an very intelligent and energized debate, as well as a unique perspective that radiates appeal across all socio-economic groups.

I have been surprised to see many DUers who still believe he has no chance because of his African American heritage. For those who still see the race card as prohibitive to Obama winning the Presidency I ask you this: So when is the "right time" for an African American man to win the Presidency? 10 years from now, 50 years? What is your litmus test for when it would be winnable?

Was December 1955 the right month for Rosa Parks to keep her seat on the bus? Was 1963 the right year for two African American students to walk past Gov. Wallace into the University of Alabama? Was 1990-1994 the right decade for L. Douglas Wilder from Virginia to become the first African American Governor? Again, how do you know when the time is right? Obviously history tells us, for all those above - the moment was right!

Every Black man that has run for President before Obama has opened the door a little wider. How can anybody presume they know enough about the American landscape to know definitively when that moment in history is upon us? No one knows; though thank goodness Rosa Parks or Douglas Wilder were not consulting sages or calenders.

I challenge all to simply be "open" to the possibility this country is ready to elect an African American. This could be one of those moments in history...




on edit: spelling

[ananda]

1. Wayne Palmer won!

On 24, both David and Wayne Palmer won their elections.

I love that show.

[Connie_Corleone]

4. Wayne Palmer probably wishes he wasn't president right now.

[Hard_Work]

41. I know as a Black man,

I wish Wayne Palmer wasn't president right now. Don't know what it is, in Deep Impact, Morgan Freeman is president and an asteroid destroys the world; on 24, a nuke...

[wakeme2008]

2. IMHO the nation would vote for a Black over a Female..

Uh Oh, Shields UP ... Incoming ... Prepare to repel boarders .... Dive, Dive, Dive.


:) but that is still my opinion today

[hfojvt]

34. there has already been a female as a VEEP for a major party

OTOH, Jackson almost won the party's nomination in 1988, why wasn't he made VEEP candidate? If a white candidate named Jackson had done as good as Jesse in the primaries it would have been Dukakis/Jackson in 1988. In 1984 Mondale/Ferraro got shelled electorally, but also got 40.56% of the vote. Dukakis/Bentsen only got 45.65% of the vote against the less popular Bush/Quayle and McGovern only got 37.53% against tricky Dick.

[fooj]

3. Obama's charm lost on America's black activists.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2546081,00.html

Obama's charm lost on America's black activists
Tony Allen-Mills, New York


HE is a media darling, a paparazzi target and a source of inspiration for millions of Democrats who dream of retaking the White House in 2008. But Senator Barack Obama, the charismatic African-American who is shaking up the presidential primary race, has not impressed some of America’s most powerful black activists.
Civil rights leaders who have dominated black politics for much of the past two decades have pointedly failed to embrace the 45-year-old Illinois senator who is considering a bid to become America’s first black president.



At a meeting of activists in New York last week, the Rev Jesse Jackson, the first black candidate to run for president, declined to endorse Obama. “Our focus right now is not on who’s running, because there are a number of allies running,” Jackson said.

The Rev Al Sharpton, the fiery New York preacher who joined the Democratic primary race in 2004, said he was considering another presidential run of his own. And Harry Belafonte, the calypso singer who became an influential civil rights activist, said America needed to be “careful” about Obama: “We don’t know what he’s truly about.”
<snip>

FWIW.

[Warpy]

11. Just because they're black doesn't mean they're dumb

and they see right through Senator Obama.

He looked great on paper in 2003. He looks too much like his mentor, Lieberman, to convince me or any of the black leaders cited that he'd be particularly good for any of us.

[Horse with no Name]

32. Thank you.

My sentiments exactly.
If I were going to vote Republicant, I wouldn't vote for Condi. Not because she is black. Not because she is a woman. But because she is a lying sack of incompetent shit.
That isn't hard to understand.
However, when you say around here you won't vote for Obama, "some" assume that it is only because he is black and you are a racist.
However...why isn't it hard to believe the reasoning for Condi...yet difficult to believe it about Obama?
Obama is DLC. 100%. He is more of the same.
I am tired of more of the same. I am ready for something different.
As is most of America.
THAT is why Obama won't get the nod. Not because he is black.

[TheWraith]

35. Thank you for discrediting your argument.

I, for one, am getting rather tired of the cadre around here which seeks to proclaim loudly that anybody who has a chance in hell of actually winning an election is unacceptable because they're "DLC," "Republican lite," etcetera. If you really think for one single second that there is any kind of moral equivalency between Obama and any Republican, let alone this administration you need to immediately get out of the party and never vote again so long as you live. Some of us would like to have candidates who have charisma, energy, and broad appeal, rather than just obsessing over whether they've catered to your every single preconceived notion about what are the right ways to say things.

So please, either wake up and stop looking at the world through a lens of absolutist ideology, or take your Gore/Feingold bumper stickers and scoot.

[Horse with no Name]

36. And you,my friend, should stop looking through the lens

of corporate idealogy and leave my Gore bumperstick the fuck alone.
You scoot. I think I'll stay.
Winning at all costs isn't always winning. Think about that.

[Blue_In_AK]

39. I'm still withholding judgment...

So far I'm not that impressed. He's just a bit too smooth, and there's a lot more hype than I'm comfortable with. He seems too "packaged" to me.

[blm]

5. Race is a horrible litmus test. Whether a candidate is strong against corruption, and

believes strongly in open government and demonstrates the will to counter the powerful elite with a commitment AGAINST secrecy and privilege is MY litmus test.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

6. I don't have a litmus test for when would be winnable

However, 2006 was a litmus test that today is not the day. George Allen nearly won a campaign in which he used racial slurs and had a noose in his office. Bob Corker DID win a campaign against a very qualified and successful black man by using an unquestionable racist campaign. Add those up and today is not the day.

Still, I think Obama's biggest problem is his lack of a record, which is the exact same reason I didn't (and still won't) support Edwards. Of course, Edwards being a horrible VP candidate is another reason I won't support him, but that's another story.

All said however, I don't think Obama shouldn't run. Quite the contrary, I think this will be a great learning experience for him and he might be a fantastic option for VP.

[BonnieJW]

22. Bob Corker won

not because Harold Ford is black, but because he's just like a repub. I would never vote for anyone who has the ten commandments printed on the back of his/her business card. He was way too religious for me.

[Sir Jeffrey]

7. I think America would have elected Colin Powell in 1992...

they wouldn't now after the WMD debacle.

America may be ready.

I would guess that the people handicapping Obama's run for the WH based on race are basing their pessimism on the fact that George won in 2004 basically running on a platform of not much more than "Kill the A-Rabs, Stone the Gays, and Cut Cheney's Taxes".

[question everything]

24. Colin Powell and Barack Obama are different

They are not descendants of slaves, did not go through the civil rights movement, probably have never felt the humiliation of overt and covert racism. Their whole world vision is not influenced, or saddled - take your pick - by growing up black in America, with the limited opportunities that were available for their parents, their neighbors and their surroundings.

[Sir Jeffrey]

28. Not that I know anything about being black in America...

and definitely not defending Colin Powell's politics, but for you to say that neither individual have probably never felt the humiliation of overt and coverty racism is absurd.

I would suggest you research both individual's backgrounds and upbringings before making such a generalization.

[BOSSHOG]

8. Obama also has Kansas (middle America) heritage

His white mother is from Kansas so he should appeal to a large cross section of Americans if race is the deciding factor (which I don't think it should be.)

[amitten]

9. He could be stark lily-white, but with that name, he'll never get

a majority of American votes.

ANYONE named Barack Hussein Obama could never gain the presidency in this country. There are plenty of idiots out there, and they vote. And they don't vote on things like intelligence and integrity and policy. They vote on things like, "I like the way that guy looks/sounds/acts." In fact, I've heard several people say these very things after elections when talking politics. These same types will automatically have a negative knee-jerk reaction to anything remotely associated in their minds to 9/11...including a Middle-Eastern-sounding name.

It's stupid but true. If his name was John Anderson, MAYBE. With his name as it is, NEVER.

Don't kid yourself, folks.

[soothsayer]

12. My sister thinks he looks sickly, or like a zombie. That'll work

against him, too, for the average voter

[amitten]

15. There are a lot of very superficial people out there who vote.

People at DU seem to all agree (with dismay) that much of America these days is vapid, stupid, superficial, greedy and petty.

And yet many DUer's think that suddenly these same people will magically change when it comes to voting for Obama. Wrong!

[aquart]

10. Cute. You're assuming he has the black vote locked up.

And only has to worry about the white vote. IMO reverse that.

[RiverStone]

19. No assumptions here.

Not sure where you read into my post I was "assuming" anything about black voters in particular? I am not. My point was I hope people (of any race) don't assume he can't win because of his African American Heritage.

Ultimately, I'd love for us to have a very competitive field of DEMS which includes Obama. I'm still holding out for Gore to jump in!

[fooj]

20. See #3 post...

[groovedaddy]

13. He could win - given what could happen before Nov. 08

Conditions in Iraq as well as the results of congressional investigations, could very well make 2008 a banner year for Dems.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. The fact that the good old boys down here

are talking about Obama and questioning things like his inexperience and not mentioning his race right off the bat is a sign that things are, indeed, changing. BTW, none said that they wouldn't vote for him. Like me, they are waiting to see and hear more about him.

[WI_DEM]

16. there will always be those who say a black man can't win, a woman can't win,

a hispanic (Richardson) can't win. My answer is if not now, when should anybody but a white man run?

[Sapphire Blue]

17. ...

deleted on edit; taken care of.

[RiverStone]

23. Thanks. Done. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

18. I say he can't win because of white folks' lying attitudes about his race...

... which is a very different thing.

Hell - they even refuse, time and time again, to get his fucking NAME right.

[Norquist Nemesis]

21. I guess I grew up in a cave or something

Obama's black? Hillary's female? OMG!!!

Quite frankly, I'm quickly tiring of the "debate" over race, gender, religion, etc that the "Liberal" media talking heads put at the top of their issues of importance. That Obama is black or Hillary is a female are the last things I take into consideration, if at all! I don't look at Obama and think "he's black" no more than I look at Hillary and think "there's a woman". I listen to what they say, what they do, and how they demonstrate what they believe.

I dunno, maybe it's just part of this 'vetting process' so many inside the beltway speak about. But I give a lot more credit to voters than the talking heads that pretend they know everything do.

*going back in my cave now*

[glide625]

25. My litmus test is quite simple.

I tend to vote for the candidate I think will do the least to embarass the U.S. Obama's run places Democrats and the U.S. in another lose/lose situation. If he isn't nominated by the Democrats to run for President, then his candidacy proves to the world how non-progressive and ultimatly how racist Democrats are. If he does get the Democratic Party nomination to run for President and loses, he proves once again how racist and retrograde a majority of the voters in the U.S. are. Thus, unless he wins the Presidency, he'll serve as yet another grand embarrasment to the U.S. in the eyes of the rest of the world.

[michaz]

26. He can win because he is who he is!

I think he just might have what it takes. And I think WE are ready for someone fresh,someone intelligent, someone with personality and someone who speaks well. One thing that Bush has done for this country, is show us that what Obama has is just what we might need! I don't look at him and see color, but then I never have really. I do believe that there are people who feel the same way.

[Bucky]

27. What a silly thread. What a superficial OP.

It's hard to know where to begin with this post. You make it sound like there's just some magical moment in history when a black man is just somehow destined to become president and that special happy day is now upon us. I'm pretty sure that if Obama runs, he's not gonna run as a black man, per se, but as an American trying to lead and represent all of us.

I've heard plenty of criticisms at DU about Obama. Not once have I seen a serious post suggesting that he shouldn't run because he's black. We've had several serious African American presidential candidates. This is not even close to being an issue on DU. No one doubts he's smart, witty, charming, well spoken, and has a clear message to deliver. The main issue is not the color of his skin, but the length of his tooth--it's rare verging on negligible for a guy with just three years experience in Congress to run for president. The only national election he won he won running against a carpetbagging circus clown--not exactly what you'd call "being tested."

But the real litmus test being applied to him and to all other candidates is niether skin color nor winnability. If he wins, he has winnability. The question is experience in federal government. He has little. But you did a fine job slaying that straw dragon of all the closet racists lurking on DU.

[RiverStone]

31. Examples....

Just did a quick DU search - and here are examples of posts which suggest directly or imply race IS a factor in the equation. In no way do I believe this is a majority view on DU, rather I have experienced our wonderful meeting place to be essentially color blind.

Like you, I'm advocating there should NOT be a litmus test of color or winnability. Beyond DU, on the national stage - is his race an issue? It should not be; though not all are colorblind as we.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2690988&mesg_id=2691062

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3056260&mesg_id=3057358

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3115366&mesg_id=3115366

[nealmhughes]

29. Sen. Obama is African-American, not of "African-American heritage."

His father was from Africa. His mother is European-American.
That would make him an American of African and European heritage.

I don't think that race has as strong a hand to play these days as it did say twenty years ago, but it may be that there is inheirent racism within enough of us to refuse to acknowledge that and yet refrain from support over the issues of skin coloration (actually, I am "Black Irish" myself and darker than Mr. Obama), hair texture, and name...
Pragmatically, I must confess that while "race" is a factor, the lack of experience Mr. Obama has in the Senate is more a factor for me than anything else. I gladly acknowledge his brilliance at speechifying and the resultant ability to electrify an audience, but I still worry over his short time on the national scene more than I do how dark he is...and he is a very, very handsome man in my white Black Irish-American eyes.

[caledesi]

30. I am in support of Obama. Read his books if you don't thinik

he has the experience - he has the experience we need - on the ground experience.

I really do not care what color this man is..he is very captivating.

Even if he doesn't win the Prez nomination, I will bet he will be our VP. Edwards/Obama...a winner.

[stranger]

38. Obama wouldnt win more than three states-

NY, California, and massachusetts.

he would implode in a long nasty campaign.

hes untested and inexeperienced-he beat crazy alan keyes in a blue state, and you think hes ready to run a winning presidntial campaign?

no disrespect to you, but there's no way.

[porphyrian]

33. I say he can't win because he's shooting for the middle.

He's not going to make either side happy by trying to please both.

[k_jerome]

37. when white people are a minority. nt.

[debbierlus]

40. I don't care if he is purple, yellow, green, or polka dot

I don't like him because of his traitorous behavior when we were trying to fillibuster Alito. I remember calling the Senators to support him for days before the vote, and Obama basically slapped us all in the face by saying he thought it wasn't the right thing to do (but he did it, after going on the news shows and deriding our efforts)...He went along only after much outrage and then, for political reasons.

Showed his true colors. Hiliary did the same thing.

Give me Gore or forget it.

[Bucky]

42. "or forget it"? Are you really gonna sit out the 08 election if Gore isn't the nom?

That's a little shallow, don't you think? Why is everyone acting like a turd about the elections? Frankly, I smell something funny going on.