Disgusting- US Soldiers Taunting Crippled Dog In Iraq

[Jcrowley]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6445f9fdd7

[xchrom]

1. i can't look at stuff like that anymore. especially when they/anyone hurt dogs.

dogs are such fabulous creatures -- loving and loyal.

[citygal]

2. How can anyone be so mean to a completely helpless creature?

I will never understand it. This is as bad as (or worse) when they were taunting Iraqi children with bottles of water. Unbelievable.

[leftchick]

5. anyone?

sociopaths can.

[depakid]

130. And there are plenty of people who just get hardened

and I have news- those people are coming home to all your towns in droves. Even if their bodies are intact- their psyches won't be.

[michael_1166]

140. I have a feeling their psyches never were intact.

This is nothing Bush or the war has done to them: These soldiers are a product of the culture they live in, and we just witness the result. Disavowing the problem doesn't make it go away. Also, a different president wouldn't magically rearrange the structure of their psyches.

[berni_mccoy]

3. WARNING! IF YOU LOVE ANIMALS, ESPECIALLY DOGS, DO NOT WATCH THIS!!!!!

It's enough to know just reading the headline what it is all about.

:cry:

[Clark2008]

22. Thanks - I won't.

I couldn't even watch "Eight Below" the other night - I vacillated between being righteously angry and pitifully sad.

Now... I have to go hug my three muttlets.

[xultar]

76. Thanks for the warning. I won't watch.

[pecwae]

120. I can't read past this.

:cry: I can't bear to think of it. Why must humans be so inhumane?! Please make it stop!

[leftchick]

4. I can't watch

I assume people that do that have lost all their compassion and empathy for living beings. God help the Iraqis, and us when they return.

:(

[Dover]

6. Sadly, these men are more crippled and tortured than the dog. This is evidence

of just what Iraq and war without cause or reason can do to people. Feel that. And feel for these soldiers what you feel for that dog.

Not an excuse but a deeply disturbing distorted reality we all are sharing and that afflicts us all. These men, God willing, will return home. And then all OUR work will begin...to heal them....and ourselves.

[fooj]

19. Basic de-humanization.

Unfortunately...all part of the plan. :cry:

[BeHereNow]

52. Ah, BULLSHIT.

I see this behavior in high school kids everyday.
This IS NOT symptomatic of what war does to people.
THIS is WHO the AMERICAN people are becoming.

And "they hate us" WHY?
Gee. I wonder.

These dimwit fucks would do the very same thing to a dog in America
if they thought no one was watching.
Count on it.

I see it every day at the school I work in.
People completely void of compassion or empathy for other living beings.
Wake up, Dover.

Stop making excuses for a society and culture on the SKIDS.

BHN

[Dover]

62. And how do people become 'void of compassion or empathy'?

Are they born that way or is there something going on in our society that is causing an epidemic of this?

[Mythsaje]

69. Epidemic my ass...

Nothing new about it.

We're just more aware of it now.

And the fact that so many people are mortally offended by it is a GOOD sign.

[Mythsaje]

68. Oh, please...

There has always been a certain percentage of humans who got off on this sort of shit.

People that make statements that suggest that it's somehow new obviously haven't read their history.

It just seems more prevalent now because we're more aware of it and because our population is so much larger, that cross-section of humanity (and I use the term VERY loosely) is larger than it ever was.

[spoony]

89. Aye, the hell-in-a-handbasket cries

from every generation are laughable for anyone who understands history. It's like O'reilly wailing every night that society is about to cease to exist because some catty high school girls videotape a fight, as if nothing of the sort ever happened back when Beav and Wally skipped down the street.

There's no doubt that humanity has a sick streak, but you're so right in that it's nothing new.

[BreweryYardRat]

75. I don't think it's our culture.

I think it's just the fact that at least 20% of any human population will be dickheaded scum. We aren't free of our primitive side at all, no matter how much we'd like to think so. 'Nuff said.

[G_j]

85. in the culture of Jerry Springer and girls proudly posting

videos of themselves assaulting another schoolmate,

you may have something there..

[mondo obscurius]

104. agreed

This is another glimpse of the naked face of the soul-destroying Amerikan dominator culture. It's clear we have nothing left to defend but our greed, hubris and brutishness.

Coincidently, I was in a coffee shop the other night quietly reading and minding my own business when a guy in his early twenties at a nearby table started bragging loudly to two young women about how he had tortured and tormented a cat, chuckling and snorting as he described the anguish of the poor creature. The two girls listened with glazed smiles on their bovine faces as he went on...and on...and on...and on.

Finally I couldn't take it any more. I got up, went over to the table, leaned in close to the big sadistic bastard's face and told him if he didn't shut the f'k up I'd drag him out into the back alley, kick the shit out of him and make him eat it one piece at a time until the paramedics came. Yeah. I was agry and make no apologies for what I did. Talking his language seemed to work though. The three of them left the cafe shortly after. But I spent the next couple of hours calming down from the adrenline and feeling such disgust, trying to get the image out of my mind of the agony this cruel, impotent weakling had inflicted on the innocent cat. Damn.

I've been close to animals all my life and have known them to have far more dignity, instinctive intelligence and soul than most humans I've known. This is heart breaking and brings back the feeling of the other night to me all over again. Sometimes lately I think humanity is a failed evolutionary pathway. Seriously, what's the point? When does all this ugliness and cruelty end?
:cry:
mo

[madeline_con]

7. "Want me to go ahead and kill him?"

One guy actually says that!

A lot of dogs live with three legs.

These guys are laughing at the dog. What assholes!

[Nicole]

42. That was the kindest thing I heard them say

I know dogs can live with three legs. However I have my doubts if that dog will.

The dog looks to be abandoned. A healthy, four legged dog would have a hard time surviving on it's own in a war zone. That poor dog probably won't last long under those conditions. Shooting him would be the humane thing to do IMHO.

[Occulus]

61. There's a guy on a science thread I read on another site

He has a three-and-a-nub-legged dog.

Its name is, apparently, Pi. It has 3.14159 legs.

No joke, and I can link to particular posts if you like. It would take a lot of time, though, as it's an 89-page thread and I don't have search privs.

:evilgrin:

ed.: 'three' is not spelled 'tre'.

[file83]

125. The soldiers were saying the dog was walking with 2 legs...

...one in the front and one in back. So I agree with you that killing it would be humane.

It seems mean that they were throwing rocks at it - but when you consider the horrible shit these guys see on a daily basis, this 2 legged dog probably just seemed like an amusing curiosity/distraction for a few minutes out of their miserable existence.

[LonelyLRLiberal]

119. Yeah, and I think they actually said "it" not "him"

Assholes!

[Branjor]

8. I'm scared to look....

Couldn't anyone come to the aid of the dog?

[BeHereNow]

57. Yes, Be AFRAID, These fucks are representative of our society.

I recently went on a tirade to a group of high school students I work with
about the fact that I was deeply disturbed by their lack of empathy or compassion
for other living creatures.

Trust me- this behavior is now the norm, not the exception
among the youth of America.

It is truly disturbing to witness.

BHN

[surfermaw]

9. Think of the Med's our troops have been made to take

They are probably so hyped on drugs that they take to keep them awake for hours, they are only kids, consider some of them just 20 years old...heck people think...some of them been there for 4 tours of duty, what do you expect, just wait until the come home with all their problems, I have read where some that are sent back have mental problems, and the administration lies on their papers giving them med's and sends them back to fight again. Now if you want to blame some one blame the Bush Administration and the American people that fell in line and put Bush back in office for a second term.. And that lazy stupid Republican Congress and Senate, that went along with Bush to send these American kids back on many tours of duty

Sorry , I just lost my cool.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. With All Due Respect, Do You Know What I Find Disgusting?

I find it disgusting when people post "US Soldiers" stuff here that shows a few doing something horrible, but leaves a negative impression of ALL US soldiers by generalizing overall. Now I know, they technically are US soldiers so calling them US soldiers was accurate. But I do not accept that premise. I bet you could find video after video of some american shmuck doing such horrible things right here in our borders. But posting the video of a few in our military doing it, while using the wholesale term of US soldiers, is only to leave some negative impression of our military in general and how horrible they act in Iraq and we need them to come home etc etc.

That is what I find disgusting, to be honest.

And before anyone says it; no I'm not a freeper. Nor do you have to be to find these types of threads utterly disturbing.

[madrchsod]

13. these guys were sick fucks before the war

and they will be after the war. that`s really all they are

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. Exactly.

The US Soldiers part is a completely irrelevant piece of information.

[Dover]

23. ....and you know this how?

It's true that the military can attract people that already have psychological problems (sociopaths, for instance) whose behaviors only get exacerbated during service. However you nor I know that about these particular soldiers. Either way, they need help rather than simple condemnation.

[Catherine Vincent]

14. "..but leaves a negative impression of ALL US soldiers by generalizing overall."

Actually it doesn't. I think we all realize those are only a few of our soldiers.

[renate]

100. I agree. There are a$$holes and sweeties in every group of people

Here's a sweet picture of a soldier with an animal:

[WinkyDink]

122. Thank you. That is beautiful.

[Leopolds Ghost]

139. I agree, but military discipline is supposed to single out the assholes, and we must do the same.

When cops batter civilians in the US, we don't say "don't publish these videos, people will think all cops are like that, the actions of these few cops are meaningless to me in the scheme of things."

NO, we say "Their behavior reflects badly on all their fellow cops and the fact that they have not been internally disciplined and punished by their peers -- who are allowed to carry guns in return for the assurance that NONE, not SOME, such thuggery will occur in their ranks -- is disgusting."

It is the same in the military.

That is how GOOD cops and DECENT soldiers see it, I might add.

So long as singling them out does not go as far as making a spectacle of their actions that embitters people in Iraq against all their fellow soldiers. but thanks to Haditha and Abu Ghraib, that ship has sailed.

[Dover]

15. It is symptomatic of a much larger problem though. And to deny that,

to deny how deeply affected our soldiers are from this war, however it manifests...PTSD, anti-social behavior, vagrancy, outer wounds and/or a lifetime of inner woundedness...no one is left untouched. Nor would you be. And we do a diservice to our soldiers if we expect them to simply re-integrate back into OUR reality here at home, ignoring the immense changes, nightmares and horrors they carry home with them. We need to acknowledge it fully. Their reality will never be the same again and they need to be able to tell their stories without us blocking our ears, and shutting our eyes, expecting them to keep alive a myth of the great and noble military/U.S.A. that their altered reality knows is no longer truth. Their hero myths and concept of who/what our nation is, often gets shattered and darkly reformed. They carry our shadow. And we at home don't want to see our shadow. We like our illusions, and this just increases a soldier's isolaton. He's been to Hell and has no illusions.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. 100% Disagree.

I think to conclude that from this video is almost laughable. This is not PTSD. In fact, you are undermining the hell out of those that truly suffer from PTSD by saying such. This was simply a bunch of sophmorish pricks thinkin they're funny, no different then the plethora of non soldiers right here at home that do this stupid shit every fuckin day. Do they have PTSD too? Give me a friggin break. The fact they are US soldiers has absolutely nothing to do with their behavior. They are just bullies, plain and simple. And I stand completely behind my opinion that threads posted in this manner, that cherry pick videos of our soldiers doing horrible things even though those soldiers represent a minuscule and statistically irrelevant number of our overall troops, are disgusting in their premise.

Others can disagree but I am still as always going to be upfront and honest with my opinion.

[fooj]

20. Do you believe that war dehumanizes people?

I certainly do.

"miniscule and statistically irrelevant number of our overall troops"...tell that to the prisoners at Abu and the families in Haditha.

This entire war is criminal...on many levels.:(

[Midlodemocrat]

72. I do as well.

I think that the kindest, most gentle soul on the planet would be completely changed and traumatized by serving in Iraq.

God forgive * for doing this to our children and the Iraqi children.

[Dover]

21. I don't draw my conclusions from this single video. I'm saying it's symptomatic.

I'm not judging these soldiers.
Their behavior is symptomatic of the types of behaviors (not just PTSD) that come from the warped reality of war in general and now Iraq in particular. I don't think my saying that undermines anyone. And of course there are plenty of soldiers (the majority) who don't participate in this kind of behavior. But they are exposed to this and many more horrendous behaviors every day and ARE affected. They have to make life and death and 'moral' decisions in a vacuum of immorality everyday with varying degrees of success and it takes it's toll in some way.

There are numerous examples, many of which we'll never see on video. These pictures, like those from Abu Graihb, the retaliatory slayings of citizens that have recently made the news, etc. are a very small keyhole glance into a much larger reality. We WILL experience them more directly (privately and as a nation) as our soldiers return, and I hope you and others can find it in your hearts to allow their altered reality to be shared and healed without judgement or the necessity of carrying your beloved ideas about what the military is or is not.

[Big Pappa]

25. If

you live in a city with a pop. 130,000 people( aprox # of soldiers in Iraq)I am pretty sure there would be daily rapes, robberies and murders. That does not make the majority of those in that city assholes.

[Jcrowley]

27. That analogy

has no bearing whatsoever to a war zone.

[Big Pappa]

29. Just the

point that there are assholes everywhere. Most people are decent and good, but, we focus on the ones that are not.

[Jcrowley]

32. Yes of course

but what is in that video is in fact not exceptional at all nor is it isolated. It is quite mild and yet very indicative of what becomes normalcy in a war zone.

The number of "isolated" incidents is rather plentiful and that is only what we who have followed this closely on the web can state. For those who are actually there the number of "isolated" events no longer even registers I suspect as those "events" are the fabric of everyday life in the hell of the war zone.

I'd say most people are neither decent nor evil nor generous nor greedy etc. and that the context in which one exists is the predominate factor in determining behavior.

Just saying these are a few bad apples really eliminates the conversation in any meaningful way which is why that refrain is used by propagandists.

[Big Pappa]

37. I agree with most

except to say that jerks like this exist only in "war zones". I am just pointing out that scumbags are anywhere and everywhere regardless of war or peace.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Big Pappa]

24. Idiots

abound in all walks of life. But, most of our guys are great people working under extreme conditions.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. Well Said And Accurate. Thanks.

[seabeyond]

31. my two favorites of the soldiers. one soldier sittin on ground out in

the middle of nowhere, crossed legged holding a baby. and anothe of a baby wrapped in a blanket and the soldeir holding the bndle up to his face, crying into the baby....

those are how i see the u.s. soldiers. i know there are some that taunt children with water, and taunt a cripple animal (i cant watch) but.... there are those that hold on to humanity with dear life

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Damn Straight. And Those Are The Videos We Should Be Watching IMHO,

cause those are the videos that represent a FAR greater number of our troops over there than these crap ones you referenced.

[adigal]

92. Oh, goodie, let's only look at happy, smily pictures

or pictures showing how good and kind the people of the United States are.

Head in the sand - it worked for many years in this country, but look where it got us.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

97. Yet Another Who Has Either Missed The Point Completely Or Twisted It To Suit Their Own Means.

With all due respect, it is not my head that is in any sand here.

If you can't understand my position based on the explanation put forth, so be it. But please don't twist it into something completely different that it isn't.

[seabeyond]

112. wow.... could you be more offensive

not to mention stupid in assumptions you are making. i have seen more pictures of dead people to last me a life time. the old the young. you dont know me. you dont have a clue. but..... if you have read any of my posts you would know what an ass you make out of yourself making such outrageously offensive allegations torwards me.

there is no head in the sand. but there is a jerk.

[INDIA]

114. No way! There are pro-military stories posted on DU all the time!

Like uhhh......well there was that one story........uh...........

[mdmc]

91. i can't watch either

:hug:

[seabeyond]

113. i have spent from the being of this whole mess looking at picture after picture

reading the stories from all sides. the sadness and pain and hurt and blood and death. i simply do not want to see another bet of the ugliness we can be,...... the worst of who we are..... with what has been created for all of us because of an asshole president trying to be a man, a man he has never felt because of whatever problem he has with is father.

and then.... a poster above has the audacity to suggest i bury my head in the sand.

i am tired, so tired. didnt do well for me to read such a jerk and ignorant post.

breathe out....

thank you, for the hug

lol lol

[mdmc]

124. it is troubling times on the internets

:)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

56. yeah tell us about that good news in Iraq

Tell us about that good news in Iraq.

Michelle Malkin said that that "librul media" was NOT reporting good stuff happening in Iraq.
She managed to get an Iraqi gentleman in trouble, an arrest warrant issued for him talking to the media, and he's in fear for his life, and probably in hiding. If they catch him, they will probably kill him.

All because this idiot Malkin (who thinks we should put American citizens in concentration camps like Roosevelt did) spoke up and said the "librul media" was NOT reporting the good stuff happening in Iraq. Boy what a doll she is. :sarcasm:

WAR is HELL. There is NO good stuff going on there, that I can see. Malkin, your spin is NOT working. It never will.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

70. I Hope You Realize That You Missed The Point Completely.

And I mean COMPLETELY.

I was in awe reading your response. It is so skewed away from the point I was making that I wonder how you arrived at the logic of using that premise for your response.

And what the fuck my post has to do with Malkin is one hell of a mystery. Admittedly, however, it's not a mystery I have any interest in solving.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

65. I totally agree with you.

There are asshole soldiers, criminal soldiers, just like there are assholes and criminals in all segments of our population.

It's possible that the horrors of the war itself have caused these guys to become even bigger assholes than they were before, but it's just as likely they were assholes to begin with and they would be doing this at home, too. We have no way of knowing.

Most of our soldiers are just guys doing their job.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

94. We're not saying that all soldiers are bad.

But torturing the dog is just a little more offensive than making an allegedly general, vague, discriminatory statement, don't you agree?

[SweetGrass]

105. Bra-freakin'-vo!

I'm not a Freeper either (((((shudder))))), but for God's sake, I wish people would at least make an attempt to be fair.

Always enjoy your posts, OMC.

[Leopolds Ghost]

137. Your Premise is Incorrect, OperationMindCrime -- as any Marine will frequently tell you

The behavior of one soldier reflects badly on ALL of their fellow soldiers.

They are trained to think and act in a uniform manner. That's the purpose of training. That's why personal behavior -- grooming, etc. is so closely regulated.

The actions of these soldiers signify or precipitate a breakdown of discipline in the entire unit. The end result, left alone, is counterinsurgency troops "going native", disregarding uniform and behavior, torturing and executing people, and generally devolving into thugs.

Like all thugs and warlords, the totally undisciplined unit will defend its extralegal actions as the product of a superior position in the occupied culture -- a military overclass that is superior both to the natives and civilians back home -- and esprit-de-corps.

As a matter of fact, the whole POINT of "discipline" in a military unit is to single out soldiers like these and bring them to justice in order to enforce the "rules of conduct" that society demands uphold in a warzone.

[Strawman]

142. That is an excellent point

This in indicative of a serious discipline problem with this small unit that almost certainly extends beyond this disgusting incident. These kinds of soldiers put their fellow troops in danger, as well as the civilians they are there to protect. If you really want to support the troops, you need to get these sick motherfuckers the hell out of there. Would you want to rely on guys like this in a combat zone? I sure as shit wouldn't. These are the kind of guys that are gonna shoot one of their own in the back of the head.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

144. Actually It Isn't, Leopolds Ghost. And Your Explanation In No Way Excuses The OP.

My point, which is still 100% valid despite your efforts, is that it is a disgusting practice to cherry pick videos of a statistically insignificant number of troops while making sure attention is called to the mere fact that they are US troops, in an attempt to denigrate the entire force of our troops over there. Now that is a disgusting concept to me no matter how much you want to preach about one's behavior/dress etc reflecting on a unit blah blah.

This is about us here. It is about those of us who are so against the war that we lose objectivity and engage in behaviors that carry no honor. That is what I consider the OP premise to be. The video represents nothing more than a couple of immature pricks throwing things at a dog. It is something that you could find in countless numbers of videos online. Why post it specifically of US troops doing it, as if the fact they are US troops bears any significance? The fact is, the only relevance to calling them out as US troops in the header is to make some sort of statement about how horrible we are over there. But that is false on its face, because this statistically insignificant number of jerks does not in any way make a point about how horrible we are over there. It is a twisted premise done for sake of resentment towards our being there. But I'm not going to refrain from voicing my displeasure on such twisted premises.

Would the OP so readily post a video of the same thing done by people here that aren't troops? If they were black people within our borders doing it would it be appropriate to put "Black people torturing dog" or whatever in the header? What about if they were gay people, or jewish people, or otherwise. Would it be acceptable to put "Video of Gay people (fill in the blank) torturing dog" or whatever? Would we not voice our absolute displeasure to such a generalization? This particular use of generic inclusion is different how?

Fact is, you have to answer what is the intent of the OP or anyone else who posts these videos specifically because they contain US troops. What is the purpose? What is the value? What statement is it supposed to be making then, if it isn't one of trying to cast our troops in general within a bad light? If they are attempting to cast our troops in a bad light, is that not sufficient reason for me to voice disgust at its concept?

To each their own opinion, but I'm bothered immensely by these types of threads, as they seem like they are simply there to seek out bad things a minuscule number of our troops do so that a statement could be made. The fact they are troops have nothing to do with the disgust of their actions. There are jerks in the military in the same ratio as we can find not in the military. The fact they are in the military is not what made them jerks, and there are certain to be hundreds of immature pricks who do this sort of animal taunting every damn day right here at home, thinkin they're bein funny. It just is what it is, and not some greater inherent problem within our military, that the OP tried to pass it off as in my opinion.

[Leopolds Ghost]

146. I just think US troops, like police officers, are held to a higher standard.

Because of their license to use deadly force,

and the fact that they're allowed to walk around someone else's community as part of an armed organized group to begin with.

If a celebrity or a local newscaster or a priest was filmed throwing things at a dog, it would be news for the same reason.

They are held to a higher standard, that's why it is news.

Maybe this should not be true in the case of celebrities, but it still apply to anyone in a position of power or leadership over others.

What is the point of Prussian-style basic training if not to weed out the bad apples and create a uniform fighting force?

Military vets can either be a stabilizing force or a destabilizing force on a culture, depending on whether their organization trains them to behave in a superior fashion to society at large, or behave worse than society at large, when dealing with violence and adversity.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

147. I Appreciate Your Completely Ignoring All Of My Points And Questions.

.....Oh, wait. No I don't.

[LynnTheDem]

11. This is what happens to human beings -soldiers or civs- in war.

This is why you're prevented from seeing real war in the US "media" -or as much as bush regime can keep hidden from Americans.

This is why everyday normal average Germans could do what they did.

This is why everyday normal average Americans could do Mai Lai.

And Haditha.

And Samura.

And Fallujah.

And bloody etc.

In war, you lose your humanity.

Usually permanently.

Thank George W. bUsh for his illegal war of choice aggression for the ruination of so many human beings.

[Bobbieo]

12. And God help us all when they come home!!!!

[Disturbed]

18. This type of behavior shouldn't be shown?

Should any type of depraved behavior by US Troops be kept secret? Should disgusting behavior or atrocities of US Troops never be revealed? Is it better for us never to know these things because it may cause us to get the perception that most of the US Troops are depraved?

[lonestarnot]

26. Nope can't look at this. Are these the same fuckwads that wrote the Kerry poster?

[eagler]

48. Don't you think maybe Kerry was telling the truth about

Vietnam after seeing something like this?

[bdamomma]

28. I think it's time for them to come home.

[Dover]

34. Yes, but that is only the beginning. We, as a society, need to learn how to receive them.

Most don't know how to receive them and help them recover. So WE need to go through some basic training in how to provide healing. Then perhaps we can ALL heal together.

[Gloria]

30. Disgusting behavior, and probably due to a disgusting POS in the White House

I'm so sick of all this crap.

[lonestarnot]

44. Wonder what he does to Barney in secret...

:crazy: Maybe that's why he's gray lately.

[ContraBass Black]

33. What does it mean that my first thought was

"At least they're not taunting a crippled child?"

[Dover]

38. Do you hope they still have some conscious control over their savagery?

An ability to distinguish and compartmentalize their conditioning and wartime destruction-mode?

I've heard (from soldiers) that sometimes they are made to kill small animals in their basic training in order to get over their reluctance to kill.

Some soldiers, upon their return from war, choose to isolate themselves so they won't do harm. They won't, for instance, have children because they are afraid of what they might do. There is still a part of them that is able to observe themselves. A conscience. Some do harm to themselves so they won't hurt others.

[AtomicKitten]

39. I just don't understand this.

I simply cannot fathom what would bring a young man to the point of being so cruel. Ironically it's probably pack mentality. Heart-breaking, really.

[zulchzulu]

54. Tis sad, indeed...

The ringleader is hellbent on doing something even more foolish, and I would suspect that some in the group find this behavior reprehensible but have to play along, as you said, with the pack mentality.

They all had to look forward to a ride back in their semi-protected Humvee where death could happen at any moment. It is indeed heart-breaking.

[BeHereNow]

40. "Support THESE Troops?" Fucking never. I am so ashamed of my fellow citizens.

God, that is the most depressing thing I have ever seen.
What pathetic fucks these soldiers are.
To think this is how they represent America and Americans.
God I am so ashamed to be associated with such degenerates.
And, just WHY do "they" hate us?
Hell, I hate us after seeing that clip.
BHN

[Dover]

41. So it's your/our image that concerns you?

What is this precious image you are protecting?

They are not 'citizens' while in the midst of war, on equal ground with you or me. They are soldiers, trained to kill or be killed, to serve a cause with their life if need be, to take a life when they are ordered, in a foreign land, often with no break or relief, for a cause they may or may not feel any stake in. They return home often broken by the experience with little help or acknowledgement of what they experienced.

Perhaps someday you'll walk a mile in their altered reality...
I hope not.

But if so, I hope people will reserve judgement upon you and the damage you do to THEIR image of themselves, and help you to heal.

[BeHereNow]

43. Uh-uh....My brother gave me that line of shit over the holidays and a discussion of Haditha.

I have plenty of friends who are vets from the war in Nam.
I have family members who have served in both gulf "wars."
To this day, they express remorse and shame for what they
witnessed and were powerless to prevent in those situations.
The soldiers in this video are souless, like so many Americans these days.

There are people who are shitheads under any circumstance, and there are people
who remain decent under any circumstance.

These "soldiers," are shitheads and would behave exactly the same way
under any circumstance.
Unfortunately, they are the "slap upside my head" that drives home to
me just who Americans have become as a people and society.

Devoid of any empathy or compassion.

I work in a high school.
I see the very same thing in kids who have never been to battle.

How do you, or my brother explain that?

BHN

[Big Pappa]

46. I

think you summed it up perfectly and answered your own question at the same time. "The soldiers in this video are soulless like so many Americans these days. I think we should put at least as much focus on the 99.9% of these guys who have integrity and honor as we do the few shit heads that capture the headlines.

[BeHereNow]

49. Unfortuntely, that is NOT the way it works.

The rape and murder of Abeer and her family, the prison tortue photos,
the slaughter of the civilians in Haditha and now, this video of degenerates
torturing a hapless dog, most likely maimed by US bombing, perhaps
a once loved family pet, is our legacy in Iraq.

GOD DAMN them all.
Those who have portrayed us in this light to the rest of the world.

BHN

[Dover]

53. So you think soldiers don't lose their souls sometimes as a result of

the conditions of war? It happens all too often. Conditions are deemed so horrendous by a person that there is a split in their very center....they lose all feeling and become numb or lost or distorted. These are often very young people who haven't formed a strong sense of self yet before being swept up in the nightmare of war. And yes, many are already deeply affected before they ever reach the war zone. Are they considered 'weak' or inherently evil? As I said, this is NOT an excuse for their behavior. It's a recognition of a cause and effect rather than an inherent or pre-existing condition. It is a call for compassion and empathy which you articulated we so need. And while the conditions of war magnifies the conditions for this 'soulessness', I agree that this 'souless' state is not just a result of war. It has become epidemic, permeating our entire society. What does that tell you? That some people are just better than others? This should cause all kinds of alarms in people and deep questions as a society. Why is this so? What are the conditions that cause one to 'lose' their soul? I think fundamentalists have responded by blaming it on 'modernism' or 'liberals' etc. But regardless where we put the blame, in truth we all are deeply distressed over these conditions that threaten to strip us of our humanity and feel a rot beginning to permeate our lives in various ways...perhaps initially by the numbing of our ability to feel at all or recognize the obvious suffering of some lost and tortured soul as deserving of our compassion and forgiveness. We are all part of the human family.

How does one respond to this condition, regardless of where it happens? The U.S. already has more people in prison than any other country. Our VA and mental hospitals can't keep up. Can we ignore it? Do we call these people who 'break' simply weak or inherently demented and beyond redemption? How do we heal?

[BeHereNow]

55. See my post upthread. You have clearly not spent much time around our youth.

These fucks were broken LONG before they hit Iraq.
Trust me on that.

I work in a high school.

I love the kids, but my God, they scare me when I think of the future
of this country.

Completely void of compassion or emapthy- 99% of them
and ignorant and arrogant as fuck, JUST like the assholes in the video.
As I said earlier, they would do exactly the same thing in America,
having never been to war, if they thought no one was watching.

I see it every day among kids who have never been to war,
but for lack of alternatives, will probably end up shoulder to
shoulder with these cretins and fit right in.

BHN

[Dover]

58. I don't think you really 'saw' my post. And yes, I've been a teacher..but enough. n/t

[BeHereNow]

59. I saw your post and I am telling you - they were weak and demented BEFORE they went to war.

They are weak and demented before they graduate high school.
IF they graduate at all.

Our culture is a train on the hot rails to hell.
Spend some time at your local high school and get back to me with
another view if you can.

From where I stand and observe on a daily basis, I have no hope.
I can easily see more than half of the kids I know
doing something like this.
I repeat- EASILY see it happening, right here in my own back yard.

BHN

[oblivious]

74. I agree. Lot's of people will do this without being affected by war.

I've met these kind of people. As an example, one summer I worked on Hudson Bay and one day when the ice was breaking up an assistant tugboat captain offered to take a group of us student-labourers out among the icebergs to see the beluga whales. The mothers and calves love to swim right alongside the boat, just a foot or two away.. All of a sudden this guy had someone take the wheel, grabbed a boathook and tried to put it in the blowhole of a baby beluga. We students let out a group yell and grabbed the boathook away from him. He was amazed that we didn't want to watch him hook a baby whale. He said that was the fun part of going out to see the whales.

I later learned that this guy bragged to another student about having shot 70 seals in one day as they lay on the beach.

I don't think there's any shortage of these kinds of whackos.

[BreweryYardRat]

77. "99% of them, etc..." That's the nature of teenagers the world over, dude.

Lots of people are fucking stupid at that age. I grew out of it fast. Most people don't.

[eagler]

45. Hopefully these guys can be identified and dealt with

nt

[Big Pappa]

47. I second that.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

50. Pretty pathetic...

...Inflicting such cruelty on a defenseless, already suffering creature, for their own amusement is unconscionable. Videos like this should be shown, but unless this sort of thing is condoned and known to be widespread, the troops should not be collectively judged by it -- the individuals should be.

[zulchzulu]

51. What a wonderful document...

That kind of groupthink is truly disgusting.

Not that I would wish anything on our soldiers, but that is reprehensible behavior...and I'm sure they then went and probably blew up the dog later.

Watch your back, soldiers. Someone is looking down on you and you might not like what is going to happen next...

[lebkuchen]

60. It's the wives who will have to watch their backs

when their spouses return, unfortunately. Fort Bragg taught us that much.

[Hidden Stillness]

63. No Excuse for Animal Torture

I am a dog lover who, like others, will not watch this video, but I know that, for one thing, when the Bush tyranny of not allowing enlistees to ever come home but just have eternally revolving tours of duty began to destroy the ability of the armed forces to even meet their recruitment targets anymore, they started to drop the standards to terrifying lows, allowing gang members, males with domestic violence convictions, and others, to enlist. They sent animal torturers over there. I believe that we as Americans must specifically express our horror and outrage at torture like this, like Abu Ghraib, like the rape and murder of the little girl and her family, and all the rest, so that the world will know that we are not all evil, and that we have enough humanity to react to it.

Like the silly idiot on this thread who hypocritically attacks Roosevelt alone for the decision to incarcerate Japanese-Americans during World War II, yet thinks apparently that it was just fine that the Japanese Government not only rounded up Americans and Canadians in Japan and sent them to concentration camps, but tortured them in death camps just like the Nazis, so others now hate Americans for not condemning the torture committed by U.S. troops, yet condemning it when others do it. Why would anyone not condemn it? It doesn't mean you do not support the troops, any more than wanting violent, corrupt police to be made accountable for their crimes means you are "against the police." Why would anyone not be outraged, with no excuses, at evil and torture, as a sign of our humanity? I would think that the troops who still have their moral conscience would be the most eager to get these horrible creeps out of their areas--they are making everything worse for them, too.

God help the little creature that no one here will help.

[Kickin_Donkey]

103. Apples and oranges ...

Roosevelt was incarcerating his fellow citizens in contravention of the Constitution. If you can't see the difference, you're a racist.

[Hidden Stillness]

108. Ooh, How Tough!

The Japanese Government arrested Americans and Canadians living in Japan, incarcerated them in concentration camps or worked them to death, where they were also tortured, in death camps. The Japanese Government was so brutal, that it committed a complete genocide of millions of people, and wiped the former country of Manchuria right off the map; the Japanese armed forces were feared during World War II as the most sadistically brutal of all armies. They kidnapped women and enslaved them, raping and murdering them. The Japanese Government conducted inhumane "medical experiments" on its own citizens, just like the Nazis. Unlike the American and Canadian Governments, the Japanese Government has never paid anyone restitution, or even apologized--but that's okay! Don't even refer to it. The asinine name-calling from a complete stranger on the internet--"you're a racist," when you are the one who is ice-cold to the oppression that you have obviously never even bothered to learn about--is embarrassing. 'Bye.

[SanCristobal]

64. That terrorist dog got OWNED!

WTF is with this thread? That clip is 50 seconds long with absolutely no context. For all we know the dog tried to bite someone and they threw rocks at it so they wouldn't have to kill it. The people bashing the soldiers in that clip are as disgusting as they seem to think our military is.

[rman]

66. WTF is with you making up excuses

for the cruel behavior of these guys?

[tnlefty]

84. Terrorist dog?!!!? You seem to be very interested in making up some

sort of context for this clip, just fabricating a little scenario of your own to try to justify rather cruel behavior.

The joking and laughing and stating, "That's the funniest thing I've ever seen" conjures up what type of a scenario to you?

[SanCristobal]

86. I just used the terrorist line to bring attention

to the fact that this clip (and the other one posted) has no context to let the viewer judge the rightness of the soldiers actions. Most people I know don't torture dogs for fun, so I will give them the benefit of the doubt and won't denounce them without knowing the full story.

[tnlefty]

88. GOT OWNED was also in your statement.

Then you proceeded to try to find some sort of context to justify this behavior and then referred to anyone who found the behavior appalling and commented on it as disgusting.

Laughing, joking while taunting a crippled dog is somehow justifiable to you in what sort of "context"?

[SanCristobal]

98. These videos present two possibilities.

1. The soldiers have no good reason to hurt and kill the dog.

2. The soldiers have a good reason to hurt and kill the dog.

Without knowing how they found this dog, it is impossible to tell which option is correct. Therefore I won't judge them for their actions, because I have no way of knowing whether or not they were justified. I would expect that this would be the prevailing sentiment among rational people.

[Supersedeas]

90. but without context, you confidently label the dog (a dog) with the Cheneyesque slurr

[SanCristobal]

96. Dogs are either with us or against us.

That dog was obviously not with us. The world is black and white, like a dalmatian.

[rman]

67. Different dog, similar scene:

No need to watch this except when you don't believe this happens - it's as bad as you can imagine.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1668090721

[SanCristobal]

81. Again, this video has no context at all.

There is no way to tell why that dog was shot in the video, and therefore no way to judge if the shooting was justified. The same goes for the OP video. It is equally likely that in both cases the soldiers actions are completely justified as it is they are hurting the dogs for fun. Feral dogs are dangerous, and should be put down.

[rman]

101. Actually there is context,

but the video seems to be removed.
It shows a US soldier on a roof top, overlooking a field with some small light-colored animal running across. Someone out of views says "contact", the soldier fires one shot, you see the animal falling and hear a painful howl of a dog. The soldier and people out of view laugh. The field in both videos looks very much the same.

You can't seriously argue that soldiers in a combat zone have to shoot dogs for security reasons.

[SanCristobal]

102. When I see that video, I'll accept it as evidence.

Until then, I can just as easily say that the video edits out the part where Iraqi children ask some soldiers to kill a feral dog that threatened them and then showered the troops with rose petals.

And yes, I can argue that dogs should be shot for security reasons. Feral dogs a dangerous. Many are beyond rehabilitation and I doubt the military has the time to find out if a dog can be saved or not.

[tnlefty]

106. No, but he/she can refer to others as not being rational.

See how that works?

[SanCristobal]

111. Or I can imply that someone is a brutal monster without evidence.

Gee, this is fun. I think I get the game now. I'll get on the phone with the ICC.

[tnlefty]

116. Harming a crippled dog hardly rises to a level that I would think the

ICC would be concerned with as it was a dog not a human. Making the phone call should keep you busy for a while, though.

[RedCappedBandit]

107. Just one itty bitty flaw in your argument:

These are soldiers. If they HAD to put down a FERAL dog, why would they be spending their time giggling as they throw rocks at it? Why not just shoot it?
Sorry, but regardless of the context, throwing rocks at an obviously harmless and injured creature is cruel.

[SanCristobal]

110. Maybe they threw rocks because they didn't want to kill it,

but had to get it to leave. Maybe they were pissed because it tried to bite one of them, so they told jokes. Maybe they found a dog and decided to throw rocks at it because they are dicks.

There is no context, so there is no way to determine why. I won't hold them accountable for the worst possibility unless it can be proved true. This video can't do that.

[RedCappedBandit]

129. You're in denial

Watch the video. They are throwing rocks at a disabled dog and laughing at it, saying how hilarious it is that the dog is running away in fear. There is no justification for such behavior.

[SanCristobal]

132. There is justification for such behavior, the video just doesn't show it.

Without seeing what happened before they start recording, there is no way to tell if their actions were justified or not. To quote myself, there are two possibilities presented by this video:

1. The soldiers have no good reason to hurt and kill the dog.

2. The soldiers have a good reason to hurt and kill the dog.

The video only shows the soldiers hurting the dog, not the events leading up to their doing so. Their is absolutely nothing in that video to make me condemn them, because there is nothing in that video which lets me determine whether or not they actions were justified.

[Vinca]

73. I can't watch, but after reading "Fiasco,"

I don't feel all warm and fuzzy over the "the troops" anymore. Standards must have slipped considerably to allow psychopaths in.

[raccoon]

78. Some years ago, a famous study about mass murderers found

that most (maybe all) of them had 3 characteristics:

(1) they wet the bed
(2) they played with fire
(3) THEY TORTURED ANIMALS.


And I won't watch it; things like that bother the hell out of me.

[Coventina]

79. Fuck those troops. Fuck 'em. No sympathy, no excuses.

I don't want these guys to come home, except maybe to jail.

I don't want them around other animals, children, or anybody for that matter.

[KayLaw]

80. I can't look.

I have to wonder, where's the discipline? Horrible.

[Tom Rinaldo]

82. Troops are drawn from the ranks of previously civilians

Plenty of civilians torture animals also. Some torture and kill people too. Cruelty exists in our world and yes it sucks. Thre is more than enough extreme insensitivity in the world no matter where you look to depress any sane person when confronted by it.

[Little Wing]

83. ***************** OUTRAGED *********************

[paulk]

87. This type of behavior exists everywhere

There seems to be a lot of outrage in this thread directed at the soldiers because they're soldiers, with the idea that somehow that condition and, perhaps, their experience in the war has led to such an uncaring attitude. I think that's nonsense. You could find this sort of scene enacted anywhere in the world.

I've been to both central and southeast Asia frequently over the years and I've seen things like this numerous times. Animals are treated far more poorly over there than they are here. Shit, I've even seen worse than this done to crippled humans, in Hindu countries. Are the people in those places as worthy of DU's contempt as these soldier's are?

If you want to be outraged there's always something out there to be outraged about, I guess.

[Raiden]

93. I don't think I can watch it

I guess the headline says everything I need to know? Much like the soldiers that were taunting Iraqi kids with bottled water...Absolutely dispicable that anyone could do something like that. :(

[Bluerthanblue]

95. just wearing a uniform doesn't make you 'good'- they are people

underneath the cloth- and some of them are outstandingly wonderful- while others are not very nice.
War only magnifies the qualities that live within them-

The person who masterminded the rape and murder of Abeer and her family, is someone i would not choose to have live next door, even if he'd never joined the military-

People don't 'get a pass' simply because they are in hellish situations.
There are soldiers who have done acts of incredible kindness- and people will never know what those actions were, apart from the individuals directly involved.

We need to stop clumping people together- blanket support, and blanket condemnation are both unfair.

No one can force another person to do evil- or harm. Anymore than they can force you to 'be good'.

We own our individual actions- in the end-

[judaspriestess]

99. sad, I did not hear the sound since I am at work

but I can just imagine. They are assholes. Being in a uniform doesn't mean they can't be assholes or cruel, it seems to only amplify their behavior. Just because a person(s) is in uniform does not mean they are not capable of being rapist, drug addicts, killers, child molesters, abusive, etc. Its not the uniform, its their intentions, which were downright shameful.

[Suziq]

109. Oh, Why Did I Even Open this Thread

:cry:

[INDIA]

115. You know what else is horrible?

Blowing up female college students as they leave a Baghdad University. Yet that thread didn't get 100+ posts like this one.

Talk about selective outrage... There are far worse things happening in Iraq than a couple of dumbass soldiers lobbing mud balls/rocks at a dog to make it run away.

[adigal]

121. Of course, human life is more valuable

but we don't expect our soldiers to be cruel. We expect terrorists to be cruel, but not our guys.

[roguevalley]

117. I can't bear this stuff. Truly. It shortens my life.

[Pharaoh]

118. These people are sick

:puke:

[Hotler]

123. Fire those assholes ....

throw 'em out of our army. There is NO excuse for that kind of action. Especially while wearing the uniform of the US, whether it's a time of war or not. If I saw someone I work with act like that there would have been a fight right there on company property.

[SanCristobal]

126. Again, these videos show no context that lets us judge their actions.

[Shakespeare]

135. I'm sorry, but what kind of context do you need for this?

Kindly explain how ANY context could make those actions acceptable. Please, tell us.

[SanCristobal]

136. What context would make this acceptable? If...

the dog bit somebody it would be acceptable. If the dog threatened somebody this would be acceptable. Dogs can be very dangerous, particularly if they go feral. It is often impossible to rehabilitate them, and I doubt the military has time to try.

This wouldn't be acceptable if they just found a dog and decided to torture it. That would be sick and disgusting. If that is what happened, these soldiers should face disciplinary actions. However this video doesn't show enough to let us determine why they did what they did, so I won't judge them for it.

[Strawman]

141. It is never ok to torture an animal like that. Never.

If it were indeed that dangerous, they could quickly and humanely shoot it. Not fuck with it like that. It was so goddamn dangerous they had to turn on the cam to torture it on video, eh? That's fucked in any context. Period.

[Laurab]

143. I do believe one of them said "that's the funniest thing I've ever seen"

which puts it, in my mind at least, in some sort of context. Watching a tortured animal, and having it be "the funniest thing" you've "ever seen" is pretty sick.

On the other hand, I don't think this is representative of our soldiers - I read a book recently about the struggle of one soldier who rescued a puppy and brought it home from Iraq - which was NOT easy, and have read many other stories about soldiers taking in puppies, even though it's against military law.

I don't think you can argue that this incidence was anything but unacceptable. "The funniest thing I've ever seen"?????????????????? That's just plain sick.

[Shakespeare]

145. No, even that doesn't make it acceptable.

Even if the dog bit somebody--natural behavior for a dog who feels threatened, incidentally--in NO way excuses torturing the poor animal. The dog was CRIPPLED--just how dangerous could it have been? What they did was inexcusably cruel, and it is beyond sick that you're attempting to justify it.

[lies and propaganda]

127. makes me fucking sick

couldnt watch it akl, didnt want to.....

[bananarepublican]

128. Anyone taunting any animal should go directly to hell. They're gutless wonders.

They are not soldiers. They are low life f*ckwits, nothing more.

[negativenihil]

131. damnit

i knew i shouldn't have clicked that link - but i did anyway.

:thumbsdown:

[Strawman]

133. I couldn't watch

I don't think I've ever not been able to watch something. Until today. No words for that...

[RubyDuby in GA]

134. I am sick and goddamned tired of this shit!

It's time to get out of there (minus the complete and utter assholes like these morans, and the motherfuckers that taunted the little boy with the water bottle. I don't care if they are getting shot at, no one is excused from trying to be a decent human being. The dog didn't do anything to them).

[LeftyMom]

138. That is some sick shit.

Remember: what men do to animals, they will do to children, women and weaker men if given the opportunity.