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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 11:11 PM
Original message
A Christian Minister Speaks Out About "Moral Values"
Edited on Thu Jan-18-07 11:18 PM by RedEarth
Dr. Robin Meyers' Speech to students at OK University


Dr. Robin Meyers
Oklahoma University
November 14, 2004

As some of you know, I am minister of Mayflower Congregational Church in
Oklahoma City, an Open and Affirming, Peace and Justice church in
northwest Oklahoma City, and professor of Rhetoric at Oklahoma City
University.

But you would most likely have encountered me on the pages of the
Oklahoma Gazette, where I have been a columnist for six years, and hold
the record for the most number of angry letters to the editor.
Tonight, I join ranks of those who are angry, because I have watched as
the faith I love has been taken over by fundamentalists who claim to
speak for Jesus, but whose actions are anything but Christian.
We've heard a lot lately about so-called "moral values" as having swung
the election to President Bush. Well, I'm a great believer in moral
values, but we need to have a discussion, all over this country, about
exactly what constitutes a moral value -- I mean what are we talking
about?

Because we don't get to make them up as we go along, especially not if
we are people of faith. We have an inherited tradition of what is right
and wrong, and moral is as moral does. Let me give you just a few of the
reasons why I take issue with those in power who claim moral values are
on their side:

-- When you start a war on false pretenses, and then act as if your
deceptions are justified because you are doing God's will, and that your
critics are either unpatriotic or lacking in faith, there are some of us
who have given our lives to teaching and preaching the faith who believe
that this is not only not moral, but immoral.

-- When you live in a country that has established international rules
for waging a just war, build the United Nations on your own soil to
enforce them, and then arrogantly break the very rules you set down for
the rest of the world, you are doing something immoral.

-- When you claim that Jesus is the Lord of your life, and yet fail to
acknowledge that your policies ignore his essential teaching, or turn
them on their head (you know, Sermon on the Mount stuff like that we
must never return violence for violence and that those who live by the
sword will die by the sword), you are doing something immoral.

-- When you act as if the lives of Iraqi civilians are not as important
as the lives of American soldiers, and refuse to even count them, you
are doing something immoral.

-- When you find a way to avoid combat in Vietnam, and then question the
patriotism of someone who volunteered to fight, and came home a hero,
you are doing something immoral.

-- When you ignore the fundamental teachings of the gospel, which says
that the way the strong treat the weak is the ultimate ethical test, by
giving tax breaks to the wealthiest among us so the strong will get
stronger and the weak will get weaker, you are doing something immoral.

-- When you wink at the torture of prisoners, and deprive so-called
"enemy combatants" of the rules of the Geneva convention, which your own
country helped to establish and insists that other countries follow, you
are doing something immoral.

-- When you claim that the world can be divided up into the good guys
and the evil doers, slice up your own nation into those who are with
you, or with the terrorists -- and then launch a war which enriches your
own friends and seizes control of the oil to which we are addicted,
instead of helping us to kick the habit, you are doing something immoral.

-- When you fail to veto a single spending bill, but ask us to pay for a
war with no exit strategy and no end in sight, creating an enormous
deficit that hangs like a great millstone around the necks of our
children, you are doing something immoral.

-- When you cause most of the rest of the world to hate a country that
was once the most loved country in the world, and act like it doesn't
matter what others think of us, only what God thinks of you, you have
done something immoral.

-- When you use hatred of homosexuals as a wedge issue to turn out
record numbers of evangelical voters, and use the Constitution as a tool
of discrimination, you are doing something immoral.

-- When you favor the death penalty, and yet claim to be a follower of
Jesus, who said an eye for an eye was the old way, not the way of the
kingdom, you are doing something immoral.

-- When you dismantle countless environmental laws designed to protect
the earth which is God's gift to us all, so that the corporations that
bought you and paid for your favors will make higher profits while our
children breathe dirty air and live in a toxic world, you have done
something immoral. The earth belongs to the Lord, not Halliburton.

-- When you claim that our God is bigger than their God, and that our
killing is righteous, while theirs is evil, we have begun to resemble
the enemy we claim to be fighting, and that is immoral. We have met the
enemy, and the enemy is us.

-- When you tell people that you intend to run and govern as a
"compassionate conservative," using the word which is the essence of all
religious faith-compassion, and then show no compassion for anyone who
disagrees with you, and no patience with those who cry to you for help,
you are doing something immoral.

-- When you talk about Jesus constantly, who was a healer of the sick,
but do nothing to make sure that anyone who is sick can go to see a
doctor, even if she doesn't have a penny in her pocket, you are doing
something immoral.

-- When you put judges on the bench who are racist, and will set women
back a hundred years, and when you surround yourself with preachers who
say gays ought to be killed, you are doing something immoral.

I'm tired of people thinking that because I'm a Christian, I must be a
supporter of President Bush, or that because I favor civil rights and
gay rights I must not be a person of faith. I'm tired of people saying
that I can't support the troops but oppose the war.

-- I heard that when I was your age, when the Vietnam war was raging.
We knew that that war was wrong, and you know that this war is
wrong--the only question is how many people are going to die before
these make-believe Christians are removed from power?

This country is bankrupt. The war is morally bankrupt. The claim of this
administration to be Christian is bankrupt. And the only people who can
turn things around are people like you--young people who are just
beginning to wake up to what is happening to them. It's your country to
take back. It's your faith to take back. It's your future to take back.

Don't be afraid to speak out. Don't back down when your friends begin
to tell you that the cause is righteous and that the flag should be
wrapped around the cross, while the rest of us keep our mouths shut.
Real Christians take chances for peace. So do real Jews, and real
Muslims, and real Hindus, and real Buddhists--so do all the faith
traditions of the world at their heart believe one thing: life is
precious. Every human being is precious. Arrogance is the opposite of
faith. Greed is the opposite of charity. And believing that one has
never made a mistake is the mark of a deluded man, not a man of faith.

And war -- war is the greatest failure of the human race -- and thus the
greatest failure of faith.

There's an old rock and roll song, whose lyrics say it all: War, what is
it good for? absolutely nothing.

And what is the dream of the prophets? That we should study war no
more, that we should beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into
pruning hooks. Who would Jesus bomb, indeed? How many wars does it take
to know that too many people have died? What if they gave a war and
nobody came? Maybe one day we will find out.

http://www.voicesforpeace.com/talkshop/peace/messages/524.html

.....For those that have an interest, Dr. Meyers has a new book that's called.........

Why the Christian Right Is Wrong : A Minister's Manifesto for
Taking Back Your Faith, Your Flag, Your Future

I've got a copy and it's an excellent book. I would guess Amazon carries it.

....and a little about his church.....

The people of Mayflower Congregational UCC church of Mayflower of Oklahoma City invite you to experience Christianity as a way of life, not a set of creeds and doctrines demanding total agreement. We invite you to join us as we seek to recover the meaning of the gospel for our time, looking to scripture, faith, and reason -- interpreted by love. At Mayflower we believe that what Jesus teaches us about God is more important than what the church has taught us about Jesus. We believe in the liberty of of conscience, the responsibility of every believer to work out his or her own salvation, and the obligation of faithful men and women to become partners with God in building the kingdom. We take the Bible seriously, not literally, and believe that in our time the church must recover, above all, its radical hospitality -- welcoming all persons into her midst, without regard to race, age, gender, sexual orientation, or physical abilities.

http://www.mayflowerucc.org/
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Telling it like it is about Bush. Recommended. nt.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Robin Meyers is UCC!!!
I'm proud of my church.
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Nicole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. How about this?
From his church bio:

"For the last 12 years, Meyers’ sermons have been broadcast in Oklahoma on Sundays at 9:30 am, KOKC AM 1520. The program has become the most listened to religious broadcast in Oklahoma."

Take that Oral Roberts! :rofl:
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Waya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. Not a Christian myself......and don't think much of organized religion.....
....but there is a man I could respect....
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smtpgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wow, now I agree with Dr. Robin Meyers & Jay Bakker
Edited on Thu Jan-18-07 11:45 PM by smtpgirl
and I'm not religious or affiliated with any religious organization
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R n/t
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nice. Thanks for that.
I've been down on religion lately. I hate being that way. Thanks for helping me level off (from my frustration and anger) a bit.
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brer cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. TY
:thumbsup:
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. Recommended.
This atheist would drop a dollar or two
in this man's collection plate on any
given Sunday.

And that's SAYING SOMETHING!
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brer cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
9. k again! great thead.
:kick:
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brer cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. . n/t
:kick:
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Nicole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
11. When I first read this a couple of years ago,
I decided I had to go hear this man preach in person.

I was not disappointed. :toast:
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Nicole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. K & R
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
15. Kick & Nominated
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
16. So true!!!!! And truth is beauty, beauty truth. KNR. ..n/t
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks for posting. K&R
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kansan Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. Amen
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. knr in honor of the UCC's ONA churches
ONA = Open and Affirming

http://i.ucc.org/LiveYourHope/OpenandAffirming/tabid/156/Default.aspx
http://www.ucc.org/lgbt/ona.htm


Thomas responds to proposed U.S. military escalation in Iraq

Written by John H. Thomas

Thursday, 11 January 2007

The Rev. John H. Thomas, UCC General Minister and President, released the following pastoral letter in response to President Bush's Jan. 10 address calling for an escalation in the number of U.S. troops in Iraq.

The growing violence in Iraq, the enormous suffering being experienced by the citizens of Iraq, and the anguish of countless American families who have lost beloved sons and daughters to death and horrific injury calls for profound lament and repentance, not for stubborn commitment to the unilateralism and militarism that has been the hallmark of our failed policy in Iraq. That is why the President’s speech is not only politically disappointing, but morally deficient as well. ~snip~

http://news.ucc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=776&Itemid=56


UCC pastors: Unjust Iraq war clashes with Christ's teachings

By United Church of Christ pastors

The history of warfare is replete with leaders who believe their course of action is both just and divinely inspired. Their actions have often resulted in the deaths of multitudes of innocent people and the destruction of empires. We face just such circumstances in our own time and place.

The war in Iraq is not a "just war." It was not a last resort, it has not been carried out with proportionality, and it does not discriminate in any meaningful way between warrior and civilian.

The war was conceived amidst treachery and has been built upon the flawed pillars of deceit and human arrogance. The slim justification for invading Iraq vanished long ago when no "weapons of mass destruction" were discovered. The current failed policy in Iraq is now being made worse by the escalation of hostilities that will result from sending even more troops into harm's way.

Because this is an unjust war, the church must urge political leaders to disengage from this war with the least possible harm. ~snip~

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/index.php?ntid=115365&ntpid=0


http://www.ucc.org/
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Atargatis Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. Ack! I can't recommend yet - not enough posts!
Damn, damn, damn, damn.

Don't mind me, I'm must padding my post count so I can recommend this thread.

:evilgrin:

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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. welcome!!
what a great read!!

any word out there which pertains to the reaction from students about his speech?



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Atargatis Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Thanks for the welcome! I love your name.
This is a wonderful article.

I, too would like to know the response to the speech.

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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. A poster on DU happened to hear his speech at OU....her comment
on another thread on DU was.... "I happened to wander in to the OU speech and was spellbound."

below is a link to that thread.......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=291&topic_id=3422#3687

judaspriestess, if you have an interest, it might be possible to hear his radio show(over the internet) on KOMA, 1520, in Oklahoma City.


and Dr. Meyers bio......

Dr. Robin Meyers has been the Senior Minister of Mayflower Congregational Church of Oklahoma City since 1985, the fastest growing UCC church in the Kansas/Oklahoma conference. He is also Professor of Rhetoric in the Philosophy Department at Oklahoma City University, where he has taught since 1991.

Dr. Meyers was born in Oklahoma City, and grew up in Wichita, Kansas. After graduating from Wichita State University, he attended the Graduate Seminary of Phillips University, and then earned a Doctor of Ministry degree at Drew University in Madison, New Jersey. In 1991, he was awarded a Ph.D. by the University of Oklahoma's Communication Department, for his work in the area of persuasion and preaching.


Dr. Meyers is the author of three books. His first, With Ears to Hear: Preaching as Self-Persuasion (Pilgrim Press, 1993), is a textbook for preachers, and his second is a book on living a simpler and more sacramental existence, entitled Morning Sun on a White Piano: Simple Pleasures and the Sacramental Life (Doubleday, New York, 1998), and was endorsed television journalist by best-selling author Bill Moyers.

A third book, The Virtue in the Vice: Finding Seven Lively Virtues in the Seven Deadly Sins is due out in hardcover in August, 2004 from HCI Press (of Chicken Soup for the Soul fame).

Dr. Meyers is a frequent preacher and speaker at church conferences and communication workshops across the country, and has been a guest radio talk show host in Oklahoma City. He was a finalist for the pulpit of the Riverside Church, the Earl Preacher at the Earl Lectures in Berkeley in 2000, and the winner of the Angie Debo Civil Libertarian of the Year Award from the ACLU. His Sunday morning and Sunday evening sermon broadcasts on KOMA reach the largest listening audience of any religious broadcast in Oklahoma, and he is a regular columnist for The Oklahoma Gazette , where he holds the record for most angry letters to the editor.





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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. Outstanding words. Kick and Recommend ... very inspiring and
incisive commentary.

I'm so glad to see words that have the sharp light of truth piercing through them
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
24. This guy reminds me of my family's Lutheran pastor.
Edited on Fri Jan-19-07 08:34 PM by Odin2005
Well, at least he USED to be our pastor untill he was ousted by the wing-nuts in the congregation (including the wing-nut Reaganite mayor of my small hometown of 500 people) because he supported same-sex civil unions and attacked Creationism and the Iraq War.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:
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