Is it too late to get Murtha to lead the House???

[Laura PourMeADrink]

Sadly, This Illegal Invasion/Occupation will last until at least Jan 2009. Saw Nancy Pelosi on ABC GMA today. She was asked if the Dems will attempt to withhold funds. She said that Dems will NEVER withhold funding when our troops are in danger. This is exactly like saying it will never happen.

So, the Dems can pass any kind of condemnation of policy they want, it will have
zero effect. If Bush didn't listen to his generals or the Baker report AND he has
said he will pursue the same path until only Laura and his dog support him,then anything
the congress may say will be ignored as well.

Withholding funds is our only hope to end this nightmare.

Man, I wish Murtha had won. I'm sure a lot of soon-to-be-dead soldiers and their families do as well.

[KittyWampus]

1. Bush ALREADY HAS FUNDING. Why are DU'ers so fucking obtuse?

Iraq is collapsing as we speak. You think it'd help anything for Pelosi or Reid to come out saying they'll cut funds when doing so wouldn't have ANY EFFECT except to give the mediawhores ånd GOP'ers a blunt object with which to trash any Left leaning agenda?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

5. So what you are saying is that it is MORE important to save face

and worry (boo hoo) about what the media says than to force Asshat to get the hell out of Iraq?

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. No what he is saying is that they already have the funds

which were AUTHORIZED by the 109th Congress.

So it would be futile and woudl only give a free weapon to the right

[Laura PourMeADrink]

9. For how long does Bush have funding?

[pat_k]

28. Even if he didn't, he'd just get it from the Saudi's

[BlueManDude]

2. Debating the war is not meaningless

it's a step in the right direction and forces the GOP to defend or defect. Bush is still the CIC and will have his war. It's painful, but right now the best thing to do is let him take down the GOP even further and make bigger gains in 08.

[pat_k]

29. Impeachment is the clear way out of Bush world. There is NO clear way out of a quagmire. . .

Debating the way out of the quagmire in Iraq is a rathole. Just the kind of endless rathole the pundidiots love.

Americans are ambivalent about what to do about Iraq. Ambivalence stifles outrage and energy.

The national outrage at Bush is crystal clear. The election was a cry for help. A cry to "get us out of Bush world."

The hopes of the nation were pinned on Democratic control of Congress. When she took impeachment "off the table," Pelosi killed that hope.

Americans continue to grasp at straws, but everyday, the impotence of the Democratic leadership is clearer. (Cutting off funds is useless; Bush will raid the budget and do what he wants. Passing legislation is useless; Bush will veto or nullify with a signing statement. . .).

If the Congressional leadership finds the courage to impeach Bush and Cheney, they'll open the floodgates of hope and action.

Impeachment is the ONLY way to fulfill their oath to defend the Constitution.
Impeachment is the ONLY way to end the torture.
Impeachment is the ONLY way out of Bush World.
Impeachment is the ONLY way to demonstrate strength.
Impeachment is the ONLY action with REAL consequences.

Only Impeachment. All else is impotent gesture.

[ClassWarrior]

3. So, since they won't do this, you've decided they won't do anything else?

The news shows this morning said that cutting funds now would strand the troops that Bush/Cheney** are already sending to Iraq. Instead, they said, Pelosi & Co. would try end the occupation in a concrete, binding way by investigating the lies that led to the invasion and sweetheart deals for profiteers like KBR.

By the way, Murtha wasn't up for Pelosi's seat. He was up for Hoyer's.

NGU.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

6. There was a time when Murtha was considering running for

Pelosi's seat.

there has got to be a way to earmark funds to be spent only on safe redeployment.

[ClassWarrior]

17. From what I understand, they're looking at doing something...

...along those very lines.

C'mon people, quit letting the Radical RW criminals convince you that everything is an either/or situation. Either they do exactly what we think they should do, or WE'RE DOOOOOOOMED...

:crazy:

NGU.

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. If Murtha couldn't beat Hoyer, how in world would have have beaten Pelosi?

:shrug:

The vote against Hoyer wasn't even close.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

20. didn't say he could win - just wish he could have...nt

[sallyseven]

23. He was running for Hoyer's seat.

Not Pelosi's.

[TZ]

4. Murtha wouldn't be different

I doubt that Murtha would be doing anything different than Pelosi. He is much more conservative and I have not heard any conservative Dems want to actually withold funds. Steny Hoyer if he was the Speaker might have been different (I am not in his district but nearby) but he is too loyal a party person to do that to Pelosi however much he might disagree personally.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

7. Ok, so you are saying that no one can do anything to stop this

obscene train wreck?? Murtha wanted to redeploy as soon as possible, best I remember.

[Horse with no Name]

8. Nancy is doing a fine job

This Iraq War is a runaway train.
Have you ever tried to stop one of those?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

10. Yes, she's doing a fine job with other, domestic issues, I totally

agree. But unless she has something up her sleeve she isn't, IMHO, doing
anything to get us the hell out of Iraq.

[Horse with no Name]

12. Even though I can safely sit at my keyboard and demand that they do something

At the end of the day, it is simply posturing because--as the WH keeps pointing out--there is nothing Congress can do...yet.
If I were members of Congress...I would replay Snow and Boy King over and over and over and over and over telling the American people that Congress cannot do anything.
As much as we would like for it not to be...it is definitely a moot point.
The only way this war will end is when Bush is out of office.
It should be OUR job to take him out of office. Bring on the subpoenas.
That's the only CONSTITUTIONAL way.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

14. like your idea : "would replay Snow and Boy King" n/t

[WI_DEM]

15. he wouldn't challenge Pelosi, he ran for Majority Leader and had

Pelosi's endorsement. He lost to Hoyer.

[groovedaddy]

11. If the war is still going strong in '08

watch out at the polls. Their will be stronger message sent than in '06 and Dems who hem and haw on the war will be vulnerable in primaries.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

13. only if we have a candidate that is 100% committed to getting

out immediately. This elminates most of the choices - Biden and Clinton for sure.

would Obama pull out immediately?

would clark? would Edwards?


the only safe choice, if you want it over, is probably kucinich.

[partylessinOhio]

16. You can bet on that, I agree.

Pelosi has taken the two most important issues OFF THE TABLE - BushWar and Impeachment. Pelosi speaks only for herself and not the voters. She was a huge mistake and should never have been made speaker.

I do not see any improvement coming. Bush has destroyed America and the Democrats are still too weak to stop him and restore our country.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

19. Thank you PartylessinOhio. I am with you 100% !!

[stopbush]

21. One word: patience.

Withdrawal from Iraq won't happen overnight, but it will happen. In the meanwhile, thousands of Iraqis and hundreds of Americans will die in bush's folly.
That is a fact of life that is a direct result of bush's disaster. It is the consequence of an illegal war and imperialism. Yes - it would be better if things were
different, but they're not. The country as a whole went along with this war, and the country will be paying the price for years to come. The fact that the
country didn't know or couldn't have imagined the slaughter is immaterial. They SHOULD have known. Once you've driven your convertible off the cliff
you don't stop until you impact the canyon floor.

Those soon-to-be-dead soldiers and their families that you mention have an option: refuse to go...refuse to carry out illegal orders. They do not have to accept
a role as cannon fodder. They can and should act. Does that mean a breakdown in the military? Maybe, but that will simply be another horrible effect of
bush's folly.

Saying that Pelosi or the Dems need to do something is beside the point. They can't.

The truth is that this war could well ruin the USA. People don't realize that, but it's a real possibility. The best we can hope for is a phased redeployment that pulls
our troops off the front lines and out of the meat grinder, but even that will take at least 2 years to initiate. And even with that, we're still up the creek. How does 75 years
of blowback sound?

The sad thing is that we should have learned our lesson in Vietnam. There's no guarantees we'll learn anything from Iraq.

[groovedaddy]

22. Congressional investigations could have an impact

on the direction we're heading in...IF they strip the necons of power (impeachment?).
I'm not sure that your analogy of the car off the cliff works in this situation. The debate about whether or not the U.S. military presence in Iraq is fueling the insurgency is valid. If a referendum is held in Iraq, that could bring about a quick withdrawal.
2008 will be telling and if the war is still going on at that point, it won't be when the knew Congress is sworn in. They will cut off funding, even if this congress doesn't have the guts to do that.
In terms of the future of the U.S., so much depends on how this country chooses to use and direct it's great wealth to help others, beginning at home. If we end poverty here and then work at it in the rest of the world, our image will rise with it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. The investigations and hearings have

alraedy started, tune in to inside baseball though (C-SPAN) since you will not see it otherwise

[partylessinOhio]

26. Hearings? Whatever have you seen come out of any of the hearings held

in the last six + years? Nothing!

The Democrats are entirely too polite and cordial to the most evil persons invited to the hearings. They act like the barristers for both parties outside the courtroom. They are best buddies.

Meanwhile our troops are severely wounded and die, and Iraqis are suffering and dying too.

The funding for the Viet Nam War was cut and so could the funding be for the BushWar. There is money in the pipeline as Dennis Kucinich has stated many times. That money will eventually dry up in some months.

As the Idiot said, "Bring it on" to the critics but end the funding.

[pat_k]

27. Cut off funds = useless + political cost. Impeachment is "our only hope to end this nightmare"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3063838&mesg_id=3065677