This smoking stuff is going to cost us

[sandnsea]

This guy on MSNBC is horrible terrible awful for our party. I don't know who he is, but he's an offensive blowhard jerk.

Not to mention, that every single time this country wakes up to the environment in a very big way - up pops the anti-smoking campaigns. Two things happen. The environmentalists jump on that bandwagon instead of the real polluters, cars and factories. AND, the people who become enlightened get angry at the attack on their lives and come to believe that this is what the environmental fight is all about, dictating personal behavior.

STOP the anti-smoking crusade beyond indoor public buildings. If we start interfering in personal lives again, say goodbye to the Dem majority for another 20 years.

[Taverner]

1. Yep

This is such a petty issue anyway...

[originalpckelly]

2. I feel that smoking in public is wrong, but on the other hand...

what people do in their cars/homes is of no consequence to me so I don't give a damn. Nor should anyone else.

[sam sarrha]

5. is it child abuse to smoke considering the child asthma rates do to it.?? that is costing us a lot

and ruining the health of millions of children for the rest of their lives..

[sinkingfeeling]

16. Can you, personally prove, that asthma is caused by tobacco smoke?

What if the child is living in a house filled with radon gas? Or lives near a street with trucks and cars filling the neighborhood with exhaust?

[aquart]

19. Well, it causes mine, ducky.

Thanks for the inhaler.

[sinkingfeeling]

22. Do you mean that when you come into contact with second-hand smoke, you have an

asthma attack? Or that your medical institution/doctor said that you would not have asthma if you hadn't ever been exposed to tobacco smoke? If the latter, how was it proven?

[Clark2008]

34. Pssst... it probably wasn't proven.

The doctor learned that the poster's parent or guardian smoked and did no futher investigation - that would be MY guess.

I'm not saying smoking is great for you, but it's too often the scapegoat when there probably are other much worse factors at play, such as heredity, pollution and malnutrition.

[Leopolds Ghost]

46. Does your house have carpet, fresh paint, particle-board furnishings or other furan emitters? n/t

[YellowRubberDuckie]

70. I'm not involved in this discussion.

:evilgrin:

[sandnsea]

26. That's what they're diverting attention from

The real damage being done to us by all kinds of pollutants. They do it every time the public wakes up to environmental damge and demands a change. Too many Democrats are unwitting participants. We need to stay focused to stop global warming and if everybody quit smoking, it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

[sam sarrha]

43. well it isnt a what if.. it a house full of carsonigenic tobacco smoke dufis

[Leopolds Ghost]

48. Or carCINogenic wall-to-wall carpet, particle-board trim, and other formaldehydes & furan emitters.

[sam sarrha]

76. so it is ok to poision your children with toxic tobacco.. it is the when something kills 1/2 million

people it diminishes the tragidy of the agony of death for just 50,000 or 100,000 .. it becomes ok

and addiction blurs the lines between right and wrong... with things like damaging the health or or outright killing children..

[sam sarrha]

49. Google.. childhood asthmsa and smoking... dont doubt..do...

[originalpckelly]

21. True, I should say "when no one else who doesn't choose to smoke...

is around".

[underpants]

3. Excuse me but BULLSHIT it isn't the Dems it is the employERs

and the insurance companies that make this happen.

Don't believe the hype.

[sandnsea]

6. Insurance Companies, good point

We're on the same page. But how it plays out on the cable channels is big government interference. The pinhead on earlier today responded with classic Dem argument - sometimes government does need to interfere. What really gave him away was his talking over the other 'stay out of our lives' guest, hammering away with no regard or respect for her opinion. It was just awful and pretty clear to me that he was a professional of the corporate type. One of those phony groups that look like they're 'Dem' but are actually corporate in disguise.

[lynne]

11. Insurance companies?

How do insurance companies impact smoking in public places? I can see it in regard to health and life insurance but I'm curious as to how insurance impacts smoking elsewhere.

[underpants]

13. Health and Life INSURANCE companies

Mostly health rates. At my work we are bending over backwards to squeeze dimes out of our payments and that included putting in a gym, hiring a trainer, and getting rid of the smoking area.

IT really is a health issue but mostly this comes right off the talkradio template of the culture of victimization.

[Leopolds Ghost]

51. Sadly, smoking only impacts insurance costs for lung cancer victims.

Thelonger people live, the greater the costs health insurance must pay out.

But the LESS life insurance has to pay out.

This tells me it is the LIFE insurance companies that are behind this, not anyone else (except the PC Puritans).

[spoony]

57. Damn them, wanting people not to die,

not like those charitable tobacco companies!

[Sapere aude]

4. Smoking thread 3# by my count today.

[sandnsea]

7. Hide Thread

It's your friend.

[sam sarrha]

9. smoking and alcoholism is why we cant have universal health care, it costs too much.. that is what

they told Hillery when she tried it

the powers that be said universal health care would be enabling addiction and subsidizing the tobacco and distilleries.

that is when they went after the companies and got the money for health care and public announcements. till the Bu$h admin Reich Wing activist judges repealed the fines

[underpants]

14. What's hilarious is all the things that she proposed 14 years ago

that insurance companies used to show how "cutting edge" they are. The prime example is the info card. Hillary proposed that back then and Republicans could get in front of a microphone fast enough to cry "big brother" well you know the rest.

[aquart]

18. How do Europe and Canada manage? They smoke and drink.

[sam sarrha]

47. with universal health care, rehab would be possable.. and reduce costs

alcohol is the 4th major health problem in the usa.. and there is literally no rehab avaible to the underclasses..

[suziedemocrat]

58. I've become so anti-alcohol after working with an alcoholic who wants me to do all his work

and living with a crack head who could give up crack, but not alcohol. Smoking. Alcohol. Drugs. I'm sick to death of all of it!

[sam sarrha]

77. i feel you Pain.. i work with SPIT.. a guy who is obviously an alcoholic and dips snuff and spits in

the trash or a bottle and leaves it on my work table..:cry: :banghead: :puke:

i know how bad addictionis... i essentially blacked out on my first drink and woke up 25 years later, i fell for them but i have ZERO tolerance for it.. i wish someone had woke me up earlier..

i had given up on quitting drinking.. and knew it was hopeless to maintain for very long.. i heard a talk with a Buddhist on NPR and looked up some stuff on meditation and got pema Chodrons 'when things fall apart'.. after 2 months of meditating on my own i ran into a Tibetan Monk.. and took refuge 7 years ago and am now happily clean and sober..

[Nay]

28. Hmmm...France has more smoking and drinking than here, and they

manage to have total health coverage. Wonder why?

[sam sarrha]

44. they are willing and able to pay the taxes, better ecucated. and maybe their media isnt run Fascists

[pitohui]

50. smoking keeps you thin

go to paris and you'll see the real reason why french women don't get fat

:hide:

[suziedemocrat]

59. If you discount the wine with meals - do they REALLY drink more?

I don't think that is true, after visiting France several times, and reading a hilarious book about an Australian woman who marries a French guy and complains about how they don't drink enough for her.

Wine with a meal is a totally different thing from drinking a cocktail on an empty stomach.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Here's my answer: Balance it out by legalizing and taxing marijuana.

Which in no way incurs anywhere near the health costs of nicotine or alcohol. Add to that the $40 Billion (not including costs of incarceration of non-violent offenders) spent per year on a "drug war" aimed primarily at pot.

Then everyone can just thank the potheads for their health coverage.

[aquart]

8. Smoker?

[sam sarrha]

10. i learned a long time ago not to get between a nicotine addict and his drug.. Watch OUT

[aquart]

17. Well, I do put myself between.

I've stood in train doors to prevent their closing until a cigarette was put out. I have no trouble whatsoever telling people to stop polluting the air I'm expected to breathe. Their addiction has destroyed dancing for me, ruined jobs, and cost me a lifetime of income.

I have watched a man die cursing the cigarettes that were killing him as he barely had the strength to light them. He left four children still in school.

My sympathy for the plight of smokers, who smoke now in full knowledge of its harm, yet continue in utter, callous selfishness after decades of incalculable harm, is absolutely nil.

If smokers feel their addiction is so primary, so paramount, so important that it outranks the constitution, habeas corpus or endless war, by all means let them vote for the party that will encourage their future addiction. They'll be too sick or too dead to be of any use to us, anyway.

[High Plains]

23. I smoke, I'm a progressive, and I'm neither sick nor dead.

Although at some point in the future I will be, just like all the non-smokers, too.

But being hated by other so-called progessives doesn't make me any more sympathetic to them, either.

[Pyrzqxgl]

30. You'll just be dead a hell of a lot sooner than I will I don't care how progressive you are!

and the 2nd hand crap you put in the air causes problems for a lot of people. I don't hate you, I pity you and the other folks you hurt.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

40. Because all non-smokers outlive all smokers, right?

:eyes:

[sam sarrha]

42. i am 59, you will not be sick like me, youll be most likely sicker, i have seen my friends suddenly

start to decline in health which ended up in more frequent emergency ward vistis , oxygen and finally death, all my mothers friends are dead.. she is the only one that didnt smoke.

you are a bit too optomistic.. if you are make, it will cause impotence..

i held my father in my arms as he vomited 5 quarts of blood on me and died.. no you most likely will not die like me.. im sorry, the odds are against you

but there is a very sucessful treatment, a couple hours in a doctors office. a couple injections.. and hopefully you'll be wise enough to attend the cupport group for at least a while.. Google: new tobacco treatment.. good luck

[jus_the_facts]

64. Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing. ~Redd Foxx

[suziedemocrat]

60. So Smoke - just don't pollute the air I breathe! It's invasive!

[sandnsea]

24. Pay for treatment

Notice none of the tobacco money OR the cigarette tax money goes to helping anybody truly quit. You show me a program for free patches, lozenges, breathing dealies, then I'll believe you're concerned. In THIS thread, I am simply stating the political strategy of legal intrusiveness has killed this party for 20 years and we need to pull our heads out and take a new approach.

[Clark2008]

36. .

[sandnsea]

12. Nope

I just know how sick and tired people are of government interference. I don't play violent video games or watch pornography either, but I get tired of the campaigns against that stuff too.

[lvx35]

15. We need to stop ineffective techniques.

I smoked for 14 years before I quit, and I'll tell you one thing about it all....All that sort of thing ever made me want to do is smoke, because it pissed me off. Then I really Allen Carr's book "the easy way to stop smoking" and FINALLY somebody gave enough of a damn about me to not be punative and tell me how to quit....And that's all it took.

Here's the deal, folks. Smoking is a MAJOR issue, one of the biggest health issues of our time, but very few people seem willing to do anything not punative toward smokers...And that punative attitude does NOTHING to help people quit. As soon as people think getting others to quit is more important than demeaning them for smoking, this issue will be kicked. But not sooner.

[SeattleGirl]

20. I've never heard of that book. You know, in addition to NOT being

punative toward smokers in general, why don't more people turn that attitude toward the tobacco companies? They are the ones who lied and covered up the information about the addictive nature of tobacco, not to mention all the chemicals and additives they put in cigarettes.

I'm not trying to absolve smokers of any responsibility, but they are not the ultimate bad buys. Big Tobacco is.

[lvx35]

74. Well said.

Its true, its a MASSIVE scandal...If it hadn't been going on for so long it would be an outrage...Can you image if Starbucks started putting a substance found to be near as addictive as heroin in their coffee, and people were having to go to the drug store so they could get transdermal patches and inhalors to have a way to manage the withdrawal from the substance without starbucks? O-U-T-R-A-G-E!

[napi21]

41. You are the first person I ever heard say that all this hatered and

criticism is making smokers somke more! I knowI've always blamed it on me being subborn, but I think you're right. If "I" make a decision to stop smoking, or anything else, I have no problem doing it because it was MY decision, but when anybody tries to TELL ME what to do, my instinct is to push back!

Unfortunately, I don't see all the anti smoking police understanding that!

[sandnsea]

53. Just another divide and conquer

It was good when we finally got the truth about nicotine addiction and advertising and illness. I don't even have a real problem with banning smoking in public buildings, although I generally can't smell it anyway. But we're moving from protecting public health to personal infringement, just like we are with video games, pornography, etc. That most certainly does piss people off, and often has a backlash effect. Mostly though, I think some of this stuff is intentional pot-stirring done by people with ulterior motives.

[lvx35]

75. seriously! yes!

Actually, when I quit there was this smug guy at work who kept trying to "help me" before that, but really was just stroking himself. When I finally quit, I COULD NOT tell him, because he would essentially take credit for my choice...to this day, he doesn't know. I just tell him I don't do it at work. But that shows what a negative force self righteous bastards can be! I had to HIDE from him the fact I was quitting!

[durrrty libby]

25. It is very simple. Smoking kills and makes fat-cats richer.

[sandnsea]

27. Smoking doesn't cause global warming

If the activists get herded into the smoking issue again, watch global warming concern completely vanish.

[Beaverhausen]

39. I don't see the two being connected. Have they been doing that?

I'm all for public smoking bans, but not for the 'global warming' issue, but for the health issue.

I'm also for cleaning up the pollution from cars, factories, etc. That is what is causing global warming.

[sandnsea]

56. Diverting attention

I've seen a few of these smoking laws lately, I am warning against letting the media, and unknown others haha, lead us off on a tangent now that we've got the country's attention on global warming. Yes I think the corporate powers are that devious.

[zbdent]

29. I think the biggest blow against anybody saying that second hand smoke

is not a danger is the fact that a REPUBLICAN APPOINTED REPUBLICAN HACK SURGEON GENERAL admitted that second-hand smoke is dangerous and a real health issue ...

[sandnsea]

52. There are more important issues

And we keep running off on tangents like this instead of staying focused on the big issues like fossil fuel. I don't think it's a coincident that we finally get an energy independence and global warming committee, and suddenly these anti-smoking campaigns ramp up.

[alarimer]

31. What we need to do is go after the tobacco corporations (again)

THEY are to blame for all the smoking-related deaths and for the fact that people have a difficult time quitting. A report came out this week demonstrating that they deliberately increased the amount of nicotine in cigarettes, presumably to make them more addictive and make it even harder to quit. That is fucking evil.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. What "smoking crusade"?

I must have missed it.

[sandnsea]

37. Hopefully it'll stay that way

And today's nicotine rant on cable tv will be a blip and people will stay focused on the more important environmental and health issues.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. I think you're probably right; they're flailing around for an issue

someone must have finally given them the memo that the Majority of Americans are Pro-Choice, and don't hate Gays.

[Clinton_Co_Regulator]

35. Tell it to that blue state of Wyoming

With all their liberals like Rep. Dan Zwonitzer R-Cheyenne :P

[Imagevision]

45. How many people have you heard of dying from smoking weed

Yet this government (as long as they get they're share of tax money) allows a substance to be sold that they knowingly kills people?!! and, it is intentionally addicting!!

[suziedemocrat]

66. If marijuana were legal - first thing they'd do is make it REALLY bad for you.

They'd air commercials for it on Saturday mornings featuring a cartoon Rastafarian singing a catchy reggae tune!

They'd treat the leaves with horrible chemicals to make it more addictive. (It IS slightly addictive even now for some people.)

You'd have to be 18 to legally buy it, but they'd make it super-easy for teenagers to shoplift, so they'd get addicted at a young age.

The tobacco the Native Americans smoked isn't what you buy in the store today. They'd do the same thing with marijuana, only they'd do it better (worse) because they'd have practice.

I think it's a good idea to let people grow their own, but I don't want Phillip Morris pushing some version of marijuana in every 7-11 in America.

[fedupwithbush]

54. Smoking hasn't caused asthma with my children.

I hate it but I smoke and have for most of the last 25 years. I have 2 children, under teenage years. Neither has asthma. I have done two things most smokers probably didn't. I breastfed them both until 1 year old or older. Plus we have never smoked in our home since they were born. They have cousins who do have asthma. Their parents are non-smoking but none of the kids were breastfed. You decide.

I also know kids who have asthma that were taken to the doctor every time they had a runny nose and given antibiotics, whether they needed them or not. You decide.

I decided no one thing can cause asthma, but I hazard that breastfeeding and not pumping kids full of antibiotics every time they have a runny nose helps them NOT have asthma.

Just my opinion.

[sandnsea]

55. My mom smoked, in the house and car

None of us had asthma either. Nor did any of my cousins and every single one of us had at least one parent that smoked. I know lots of kids with smoking parents in the house who don't have asthma. Of course it isn't good for the kids, duh. But I think it can be handled through the normal abuse process if a child keeps turning up at the ER. Blanket laws like this are ridiculous, because I personally think McDonalds is more damaging than cigarette smoke. Wouldn't it be ridiculous for a cop to stop a car, "Madam, I'm confiscating the Happy Meal"!

We've really got to stop this. If education is the answer for teen sex, it's the answer for some of these other social issues too.

[Odin2005]

62. I've read that smoking while pregnant increases the risk of ADHD and premature birth.

I have ADHD and was born 2 months before my due date, my mom is a heavy smoker. Make of that what you will.

[Odin2005]

61. Too many people are concerned with thier mini-crusades and thus real problems are ignored.

There are too many people concerned about ultimately petty issues (OMFG, WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN? BAN THOSE CHILD-CORRUPTING WIGETS NOW!), it's pathetic.

[CBGLuthier]

63. I quit one more time and I hope for the last six months ago

And then I watched an interview with author Robert Sheckley, well past 70 and smoking like a chimney. Kind of pissed me off. Of course, he is now no longer amongst the living, but at least he was happy till the end.

But all you smug anti-smoking folks, got news for you. You are going to die. Eventually, sooner or later, we all die, so get off your fucking high horses and accept the fact. We all die. And if you want to freak out about a little tobacco smoke drifting your way, may I suggest you stop driving cars and using gasoline and all the myriad thousand and one chemicals we breathe on a daily basis.

Hell maybe you will live forever. But I doubt it. Death just seems to be part of the deal we are stuck with.

[Imagevision]

65. Hey! smoking kills, at least they ended up warning us but they failed to say

they've increased the nicotine levels 12% over the past 7 years.

[BoneDaddy]

67. If liberals make anti smoking part of their platform from a

social control point of view, they will alienate a great deal of people. Look we all can agree on the dangers of smoking and of exposing others to second hand smoke, but to go beyond that to some sort of crusade against smokers as a primary part of a campaign, then you are fucking nuts and will ultimately lose.

If people have not understood that most people do not like to be told what to do then you are fools... pull this politically correct fascist crap and we will lose every single time.

[salin]

68. I think that some of these smoking bans are being passed

by republican majorities. NYC - republican mayor. And I think that the state-wide ban on smoking in public places in California passed while Gov Wilson (republican) was governor. Those are the high profile ones, but there have been some bans passed in my "red state" in republican communities. Not saying that this is a "republican" thing - but that I don't think that it can be used as a cudgel against the democratic party.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

69. K&R.. it's a good point...but please let's stop this type of smoking...

[seabeyond]

71. damn straight it is going to hurt. n/t

[spacelady]

72. Smoking threads are a waste of time, smoking bans are a waste of resources.

Smokers are a voting bloc that should not be alienated, if the Democratic party is inclusive, smokers should not be treated like second class citizens. I am much more likely to be considerate about public smoking if others are not in my face and hateful about their opinions about smoking. Let it be about trying to get along, not about "I am right and You are wrong!"

[Stinky The Clown]

73. I could not agree more

I saw the guy and your description of his was kind. I found myself on the side of the smokers rights advocates. He is a HORRIBLE spokesperson.

I also agree with the rest of your posit. Smoking is much like gun rights. It will hurt us in the short term and will derail every BIG thing we need to be working on.