Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Don't forget-Hillary voted FOR the bankruptcy "REFORM" bill

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Adenoid_Hynkel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:53 PM
Original message
Don't forget-Hillary voted FOR the bankruptcy "REFORM" bill
on it's first attempt at passage by the GOP
the 2nd time she skipped the vote altogether

worth keeping in mind
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Stabenow in MI voted for that damn thing.
Only reason I held my nose and voted for Debbie again this year was because of her "NO" vote on the IWR.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blonndee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for the reminder.
:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. I wonder how much$$ she gets from Banking interests....
I'll bet someone on this site could tell us....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. If I remember correctly, she didn't vote - she was at the hospital.
Talk was that she would have voted for it.

With Biden. With Stabenow. With Feinstein (if I remember correctly). Definitely, Landrieau.

It was a despicable vote. Proof of being bought out by corporations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adenoid_Hynkel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. absent on 2nd vote-but was for it when present the first time
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. She publicly said she would NOT vote for it
And, she was at the hospital for her husband's second surgery.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Don't let facts get in the way of
an indignant rant!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Hmmm... true -- sorry, I wasn't thinking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. all this talk is over the lesser of evils
none of them serve our interests

Modern Democrats just harm us marginally less
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. I did not like the bill - but which provision did you find to be the reason to not vote for Hill?
Edited on Sat Jan-20-07 11:06 PM by papau
Also as Hill was against the bill that passed, why is there a problem? I am curious as to the provision changes that led her to be against something she was not initially against.





Major Intent of Bankruptcy Reform:
The major intent of bankruptcy reform is to require people, who can afford to make some payments towards their debt, to make these payments, while still affording them the right to have the rest of their debt erased. These people must file Chapter 13.

Status of the Bills:
The Senate passed the Bill on March 11, 2005 and the Congress on April 14, 2005.

When will this be Law:
The bill was signed into law by the president on April 20, 2005.

Sections 308, 322 and 330, all concerning the homestead exemption, take effect immediately.

This is law now: The exemption is limited to $125,000 if the property was acquired within the previous 1215 day (3.3 years). The cap is not applicable to any interest transferred from a debtor's previous principal residence (which was acquired prior to the beginning of such 1215-day period)

The rest of the provisions of the law will come into effect 180 days after the Bill is signed or on October 17, 2005.

Major Changes:

Means Test:
This will identify debtors who have the financial capacity to pay some money to their creditors. The test will work as follows:

TEST # 1:
Is the family earning above the median income for their state?
You can check to see if your income is above the median income for your state. State Median Incomes
If the answer is "No" Chapter 7 can be filed!

TEST # 2:
If the answer is "Yes" to TEST # 1 , do you have excess monthly income of more than $166.66/month to pay $10,000 of debt over 5 years?
If the answer is "No" you must answer another question, if "Yes" Chapter 7 cannot be filed but Chapter 13 may be filed!

TEST # 3:
If the answer is "No" to TEST # 2 do you have excess income of greater than $100/month to pay over the next 60 months at least 25% of your unsecured debt?
If the answer is "No" you can file Chapter 7, if "Yes" chapter 7 cannot be filed but Chapter 13 may be filed!

Proof of Income:
Debtors filing Chapter 7 or Chapter 13 bankruptcy, must provide to the trustee, at least seven days prior to the 341 meeting, a copy of a tax return or transcript of a tax return, for the period for which the return was most recently due.

State Exemptions:
You cannot use the exemptions in your state of residence unless you have lived there at least 2 years.

Homesteads:
This goes into effect as soon as the bill is signed by the president! The exemption is limited to $125,000 if the property was acquired within the previous 1215 day (3.3 years). The cap is not applicable to any interest transferred from a debtor's previous principal residence (which was acquired prior to the beginning of such 1215-day period)

Counseling:
You must have finished counseling within the last 6 months before you can file.

Child Support and Alimony:
These debts would go from a priority of 7th to 1st.

Tithing:
Up to 15% of your income can be given to charity. This is seen by some as a loophole allowing people who may be just over the thresh hold of having to file Chapter 13 to drop down low enough to file Chapter 7.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
10. And don't forget she voted YES on repealing tax subsidy for companies which move US jobs offshore
Edited on Sat Jan-20-07 11:06 PM by kineta
and YES on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education.

on edit: 'Corporatist' indeed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. The second time she was with Bill at the hospital, I believe.
It was convenient, but if I recall correctly she issued a statement condemning the bill.

I see if I can find it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. You are correct on both counts
And, I believe even a sitting Senator has a right to be with their spouse in the event of major surgery.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Here's the text of her statement AGAINST the bill she did not vote for
the one that passed.

Speaker: Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton (NY)
Title: Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Date: 03/11/2005

BANKRUPTCY ABUSE PREVENTION AND CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT OF 2005

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Mrs. CLINTON. Mr. President, while I strongly believe that Congress should act to fix the problems in our bankruptcy system, I also believe that this bill is misguided and deeply flawed.

This bankruptcy bill fundamentally fails to accord with the traditional purposes of bankruptcy, which recognize that we are all better off when hard-working people who have suffered financial catastrophe get a ``fresh start' and a second chance to become productive and contributing members of society. With the passage of this legislation, which makes obtaining this fresh start more expensive and more difficult, we are ensuring that many responsible Americans will continue to be buried under mountains of debt, and unable to take back control and responsibility for their lives.

Our Nation's bankruptcy law developed out of a recognition that the world can be a competitive, often unforgiving place. Bankruptcy reform should therefore be directed toward creating a civil society in which valuing individual responsibility is not incompatible with admitting the enduring truth that sometimes bad things happen to responsible, hardworking people. Sometimes, conscientious Americans need help and support against forces that are too big for them to stand against alone. It should be about making sure that both large corporations and individual citizens are held to the same standards of responsibility and accountability.

This bill is flawed in a number of ways. But I want to begin by commenting on one of its most distressing elements. As many people know, I have long been concerned about the burdens placed on America's families by a lack of health care insurance and by rising healthcare costs. In this bill, the Senate had an opportunity to take one important step to help citizens driven to the point of bankruptcy by unavoidable medical problems. Instead, the Senate rejected this opportunity to lighten the load on Americans dealing with the twin blows of medical and financial difficulties.

The Senate's failure to act is all the more striking to me today, because I must submit this statement into the RECORD while attending to a medical situation in my own family. Fortunately, my family is well-insured, and we are not in danger of losing that coverage. I am deeply aware and profoundly grateful for the good fortune we enjoy in having access to quality medical care in the face of significant medical needs.

And I know that many American families are not so lucky. Indeed, among those Americans whose illnesses led to bankruptcy, 75.7 percent of them had insurance at the onset of the illness. Employees with serious long-term illnesses often lose their jobs, which means they also lose their health insurance.

Medical bankruptcy has skyrocketed in recent decades. In 1981, only 8 percent of personal bankruptcy filings were due to a serious medical problem. By contrast, a recent study by researchers from Harvard Law School and Harvard Medical School found that half of personal bankruptcies filed in this country are now due to medical expenses.

In this bill, the majority simply refuses to acknowledge this current crisis of medical bankruptcy. It refuses to acknowledge that sometimes medical disaster strikes. ``Life Happens.' The family breadwinner is struck down by illness, and the entire family's financial future veers toward collapse.

This is not a rare occurrence; we all know people who have endured hardships like medical emergencies that break the bank, layoffs, or vanishing pension plans. These are the people the bankruptcy laws are designed to protect. They are facing hardships because of forces outside of their control.

I support real reform that would hold accountable people driven into bankruptcy because of their own irresponsibility. But the evidence shows that the vast majority of chapter 7 bankruptcy filers are not spendthrifts who have run up ther--it cards buying luxury goods. And this bill primarily targets the vast majority of chapter 7 bankruptcy filers who have lived responsibly but are nonetheless facing financial ruin because of the unavoidable vicissitudes of life.

The world has changed since this bill was first considered in 2001. During the past 4 years, workers have sustained unprecedented job losses, endured termination of pension plans, and faced wage cuts and elimination of health care and other benefits as a result of their employer's bankruptcy.

Many of these bankruptcies have been the direct result of wrongdoing by corporate mismanagement. The people who take the biggest hit when big companies go bankrupt aren't the top executives, but the ordinary employees whose pensions and healthcare coverage disappear overnight.

In the last 4 years, the global economy has become relentless. Workers are living with more employment insecurity, and many have to retrain mid-career to adjust to the changing dynamics of the American economy.

We are now a nation at war. And at a time when they are carrying the burden of sending loved ones off to war, military families have become the victims of payday loans charged at 400 percent interest, insurance scams, and other forms of financial chicanery that leave them economically devastated.

Yet this bill does nothing to help these responsible Americans who suddenly find themselves in dire financial straits. In fact, it makes things harder for these individuals to find refuge in bankruptcy. Why is the majority committed to making things harder?

Many of my colleagues on this side of the aisle have asked this question and have received no real answer. So the bottom line is that this bill's proponents, while touting the need for bankruptcy reform and accountability, are willing to address only part of the problem, dealing only with the most vulnerable in our society, and leaving the reform of corporate bankruptcies on the sidelines, requiring no additional accountability with respect to our Nation's companies.

A number of my colleagues in the minority offered amendments in an effort to address many of these changed circumstances, but amendment after amendment was rejected. I simply cannot understand why the Republican majority gave instructions to its caucus to oppose any and all amendments, no matter how reasonable they were or the circumstances they were designed to address.

I find even more disturbing the fact that the majority refused to more appropriately address the special needs of our troops in the context of this legislation. I am baffled by the majority's rejection of Senator DURBIN's ``G.I. Protection Amendment,' which I was proud to co-sponsor, and which was also supported by the Military Officers Association of America, the Air Force Sergeants Association, the National Association for the Uniformed Services, and the Enlisted Association of the National Guard of the United States, among other organizations. I can't understand why the entire Senate didn't cosponsor this amendment to better protect our men and women in uniform and their families. It is troubling and incomprehensible to me that most of my colleagues would refuse to vote for it.

And while refusing to support an amendment that would have helped military families in a meaningful way, the majority of the Senate had no problem rejecting an amendment that was designed to make it harder for millionaires to hide their assets from creditors, even after filing for bankruptcy.

Even though there appears to be a near universal recognition that the bankruptcy law contains a major loophole, one that enables wealthier Americans who file for bankruptcy to shield their assets through what are called ``asset protection trusts,' a majority of the Senate rejected a meaningful amendment to close that loophole.

To make matters even worse, yesterday the Senate, again led by the Republican leadership, rejected an amendment offered by Senator KENNEDY, which would have outlawed unlimited homestead exemptions. This would have prevented the wealthiest Americans from avoiding responsibility by hiding their assets from creditors.

The Senate also rejected an amendment that was intended to reinsert language that had been in the legislation the Senate passed in 2001, which would have prevented the discharge in bankruptcy of all liability for willful violation of protective orders and violent protests of providers of lawful services, such as reproductive health services.

Even though this language was in the 2001 Senate-passed bill, it is conspicuously absent from the bankruptcy bill that the Senate is now considering 4 years later.

In other words, bill proponents, led by the Republican leadership, have called for additional significant financial accountability, but not if you are a corporate entity, not if you are wealthy, and not if you are an organization that a court has found to have violated the law and infringed upon the rights of others.

Almost without exception, the majority has voted across the board against these and other amendments, apparently under strict orders from the Republican leadership to oppose any and all amendments, regardless of whether the amendments were designed to help our troops, to remove loopholes for millionaires, to help families facing medical and financial crisis. This is the antithesis of the American and family values that many of my colleagues so like to talk about.

This legislation, especially after refusal, after refusal, after refusal to support amendments to improve it, is unfair and unjust.

In short, the legislation that the Senate is voting on today, could have, with more careful and good-faith consideration, been a vehicle in which we could have thoughtfully addressed abuses in the bankruptcy process by both consumers and corporations. Unfortunately, the Senate leadership chose to go down a different road.

Because of unforeseen and unavoidable circumstances, I will not be present when the Senate votes on final passage of this bill today. But were I able to be here, I would vote no, because this bill is clearly not in the best interests of the American people.

http://thomas.loc.gov/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Hmmm. Hillary sure told me off. If you people are going to argue with
facts, ... :hide:

Honestly, I've not made up my mind. At some point, all the horses will be in the race and we will see.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. BTW - so did John Edwards
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. What year was that final bill passed in the House & Senate?
:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. That was 2001 - the same bill the OP is complaining Clinton voted for.
Edited on Sat Jan-20-07 11:33 PM by kineta
the second bill - was in 2005. Edwards obviously didn't get a chance to vote on that one. Clinton said she would have voted against the 2nd one but was in the hospital with her husband.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. So this was *not* the 2005 Bankruptcy Reform bill, then?

nt

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Have you read through all the posts?
I assume you are trying to make a point?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. It missed you completely.
No biggie.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. sorry :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I think Edwards denounced the 2005 one, same as Clinton did.

nt

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Perhaps, but he did cast a vote for it. Hillary did not.
The 2001 bill is irrelevent because it didn't pass.

Also, Obama voted NO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-21-07 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. He didn't cast a vote for it - he wasn't in the senate in 2005
Point being - the OP complained that Hillary voted for the 2001 Bankruptcy bill - and that is supposed to somehow disqualify her from deserving the Presidency. As it's been pointed out - John Edwards also voted for the 2001 bill and Clinton had to miss the 2nd, 2005 vote for very valid reasons, but wrote a very impassioned letter AGAINST it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-21-07 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. You are so right.
Color me retarded.

I had two tabs open, one for 2001 and one for 2005. I got confused.

D'oh!

Thanks for correcting me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-21-07 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. No problem - at least your researching!
;-)

more than many around here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. BC was having bypass surgery when she "skipped" the vote.
worth keeping in mind ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-21-07 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
29. I look at three things related to the bankruptcy bill and welfare.
Reasons given and statements made for taking them away were:
bankruptcy: why wipe away gamblers debts
welfare: too many people are abusing it.
Was legislation targeted at abusers? No, everyone was hit in a punitive way and hardhip style.

Corporate momentum:
The leaders of the United States of America have been 'writing checks' and taking kick backs from corporation in the form of generous legislation they allow to them. It is totally un-American to mover your legal set-up off shore to avoid our laws - mainly accountability, environmentally, and trials by judge and jury. As well as hide your profits and downgrade our work force and entire moving up hope.
Did MBNA and does B of A, Citicorp, and all the rest of them use U.S. labor at 100%?

OF, BY, FOR and WHY:
If our leaders are not there to ensure that this country is of, by, and for its people, then why do the people keep losing out by the actions of our leaders in favor of corporations?

This country is slipping down at a precipitous rate while the corporate rise with no bounds.

The issues in the bankruptcy bill are complicated as we see in her very complex response to it.

But the people of the country are simple.

A simple protection for simple people should come before the already wealthy corporations.

And it's obvious that only a handful of our leaders feel that way.

If our leaders can't draw a line that protects hard working people and hold that line for us, but instead, repeatedly show that big business comes first - why should we gush over them?

If Hillary wasn't there for a serious reason, no one should be attacking her for not voting.
But, people have every right to form an overall opionion based on the total of what they see, hear, and observe.

p.s. compulsory counseling in bankruptcy bill - what an insult to most people who did not abuse the system - how rude and how revalatory of those who believe they are superior.

Coming from our growing legacy of prisons we run all over the planet where we torment, torture, deny rights and courts - where we yank people off planes and out of their homes and gather every penny, date. place, opinion, thought in their life and store and use it in a database for political purposes - and the totally unfair denial of rights and bigotry expressed to ever revolving groups of people - a simple-complex bill may seem like nothing - but in the big picture - we are nothing to the people who are trying to micro-rule us. Some of our leaders facilitate it all. And we have a right to form our opinions of them and rate them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-21-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. good post
I share the dismay
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Jan 14th 2025, 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC