One thing I admire about the Bushies and neocons...

[yurbud]

Not their lies, , disregard of the Constitution, or policies by any means.

But I do admire the idea of stating what you want instead of pre-compromising, and when faced with setbacks, doubling down instead of folding. When they say they want bipartisanship, they mean you can vote with us or be left out in the cold.

No matter how much power the Democrats have, half or more of them state their goals as incremental, or saying they can't consider something because it wouldn't get republican support.

There are some issues where this is appropriate like highway spending or what color to paint the Senate dining room, but a lot of issues are moral and therefor to pre-compromise is immoral.

I just watch "Thank You for Smoking" and the line that stood out was "It's an argument not a negotiation." Republicans treat EVERYTHING as an argument with a moral right or wrong, and Democrats seem to treat just about everything as a NEGOTIATION, where their first statement is not what they want but somewhere between what they want and what they think they can get. While this may work in some cases, it is hard to see how this is even close to the success Republicans had with very, very stupid and even harmful ideas.

To their credit, for the first hundred days, the Democrats took a more "take it or leave it approach." Rather than ratchet that down though, they should ratchet it up.

The fundamental obstacle is trying to please the Chamber of Commerce, which is the key constituency of the GOP and a good part of the Dems. For Democrats to gain a long term hold on power though, they need to say that when the interests of big business and average Americans conflict, they will always side with the average joe--then do it. If that was as recognizable a pattern of rhetoric and action as the GOP's tax cut mantra and initiatives, we would probably even peel some racists and homophobes from the GOP, when they realize the country club always trumps the bowling alley in that party.

[Joe Chi Minh]

1. A very insightful post, if I may say so.

You raise a point of profound importance, which the Democrats need to take on board. Ratchet up, not down.

[yurbud]

2. they earn political capital when they ratchet up. Pre-compromise is a push at best

[whistle]

3. Please explain something Yurbud, when you give the example

..."When they say they want bipartisanship, they mean you can vote with us or be left out in the cold.", how exactly would that be bipartisanship when the definition of bipartisanship is:

In a two-party system (such as in the United States), bipartisan refers to any bill, act, resolution, or any other action of a political body in which both of the major political parties are in agreement. Often, compromises are called bipartisan if they reconcile the desires of both parties from an original version of legislation or other proposal. Failure to attain bipartisan support in such a system can easily lead to gridlock, often angering each other and their constituencies....

Now why on earth would any democrat suggest that this quality of "you do as we do and say or you do nothing", why would this be admired about the Bushies and neocons? I see no redeeming qualities to that kind of belligerence at all. I see that type of power struggle is dysfunctional and against unity and lacking in any quality of mutual respect and tolerance.

[Joe Chi Minh]

5. Personally, I could understand your point, if you were talking about

bipartisanship with an Eisenhower-type of Republican opposition. Respect would then be more than a theoretical, if amoral possibility.

[neoblues]

4. You've put your finger on a key observation...

We surely don't want to be like them, but perhaps in some ways we need to change our approach even if it resembles theirs. Negotiable proposals versus non-negotiable demands certainly does seem like what happens; time to be more assertive.

[GeorgeGist]

6. I can't say I admire neocons...

because they have no principles to compromise. But I certainly sympathize with the perception that Democrats are all too willing to compromise theirs; when push comes to shove.