Isn't debt the same as indentured servitude?

[Unperson]

I'd have to say that it is. I've allowed myself only one credit card with a $500 limit. Just for serious emergencies and goods and services that will only take a credit card, car rental, etc. I've talked to people who have said that would love to quit their jobs and travel, sail around the world, hike the Appalachian Trail, buy a small farm, basically live out some sort of personal dream. When I tell them, "Go do it!" they inevitably say, "Blah, blah, mortgage, blah, blah, I owe the bank." So these people are sacrificing something that they would love to do to pay off debt. They are beholden to an establishment that is denying them freedom. Indentured servitude.

[leeroysphitz]

1. It's one way in which the current social order is maintained.

Another level of control. I don't think it's a coincidence that credit (cards and other financial products) became so easy for people to get after the social unrest of the sixties.

[originalpckelly]

2. Well, I guess so, but you do like the house, right?

You do realize it costs lots of money because of all the hard work which goes into making it, right?

Even if the markup for profit was totally eliminated, houses would still cost lots of money. Too much for anyone to save.

If you want to live in a world where people cannot own a house, then so be it. You may choose not to. Of course, you'll have to rent, and when you rent, you get even more screwed, because you don't get to keep the equity in the property.

[silverlib]

3. Time is telling...

People who lose their home not only lose equity, as equity is declining and some will find this in the negative bracket, but they lose much more. Those who bought with loose credit in the last two years will be hit hard in the bust of the housing bubble.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

4. No, because you can choose how to pay it off.

Under indentured servitude, you have no freedom until the time limit expires. If you breach it, you're sent to jail.

If you're in debt, then you can earn money to pay it off however you choose, in a profession of you're own, as long as you keep paying the installments. If you fail, you risk baillifs, forclosure or bankruptcy, but not generally prison.

It's not an enviable state to be in by any means, but it's not as bad as indentured servitute.

[sendero]

5. I don't know about that..

... but I do believe (and always have) that it is not possible to be "free" without the proper relationship with money.

God bless the child that's got his own.

[Totallybushed]

6. Who held a

gun to their heads and made them take the money? I say this as someone who is seriously in debt myself.

Society is not going to do anything for these people, or for me. We must all just hold down our spending if we are trying to opt out of a capitalistic, materialistic world and create on more in touch with nature.

The responsibility, both for ourselves and the world, is ours alone.

[BlooInBloo]

7. LOLOLOL!!!!

[msongs]

8. sorry, their "debt" is self inflicted. they have choices to make.

nobody is denying them freedom to do the things you mentioned.

they choose to deny themselves freedom and BLAME it on somebody else.

gee, did you know credit cards have to paid back and they are not gifts?

Msongs
www.msongs.com

[pitohui]

12. much debt is caused by medical emergencies

i've known families who even with good health insurance ultimately had to declare bankruptcy, why? because even if your insurance company completely covers your $400,000 treatment for hodgkin's disease, if you have lost most of the primary breadwinner's income for two years, you're still screwed

pretty sure there was a recent news story telling that a surprising number of bankruptcies are people who do have health insurance, because of the lost income issues

it don't really matter if someone charges a new teevee on their credit card every couple, three years, what crushes people is losing their job in a market where other jobs are not readily available or serious illness/injury issues


my point is -- many people do NOT choose to have crushing debt, no one would choose hodgkin's disease

[pitohui]

9. have you ever sailed around the world or hiked the appalachian trail?

i thought not

$500 is worthless in an emergency, what is that supposed to do when you are trapped out of your house for months on end by a storm or you have a serious medical emergency that costs tens of thousands of dollars just for your share of the hospital and surgery?

anyone who thinks debt is necessa5rily indentured servitude doesn't know what indentured servitude was, it was pretty much slavery, just for a limited period of years

you can actually take on debt, get an education, get a decent job and actually have a future -- it doesn't always work but if you don't take on any debt and get any education at all then you've written yourself out of your own life without even giving yourself a chance

or try buying a home sometime without debt

sheesh

if you don't trust yourself to ever be able to earn enough to be able to repay more than $500, then never indebting yourself for more than $500 may be a wise policy, but shoot me now if my hopes are so small and chances of success and happiness so tiny

don't be afraid of debt, use debt to your advantage to educate yourself, house yourself, maybe even start your own business

[Unperson]

10. You know nothing about me.

Don't presume that you do.

[pitohui]

11. i know what you placed in your post

i know what you told on yourself and i know the price of rice, big dreams and big accomplishments cost more than $500, and the serious emergencies that i've experienced cost WAY more than $500

i would never put myself in a position where i had to beg for help from family, friends, or gov't when i can have a line of credit and take care of myself in event of serious emergency

yes, katrina was the big one, i had no idea i would be trapped out of my home for so long, but i honestly can't think of ANY serious emergency i've ever had that cost only $500, the reality of what emergency room visits costs, the reality of what traveling to be at a deathbed costs, the reality of what you lose being seriously ill or injured, hell, even just evacuating for a storm that doesn't hit probably costs $500!

my advice is to seriously re-think your emergency plan, you need to either get a much bigger line of credit or save a HUGE honking enormous wad of cash -- and probably both -- but since saving up huge amounts of cash can take decades if it happens at all, then, honestly, you need credit

i just hope you never have any practical experience of an emergency and have to find out the hard way!

my advice is not intended to offend, it is intended to be useful

[Taxloss]

13. No, it isn't the same.

Some forms of taxation bear similarities but that's an argument for the libertarians out there. Debt is simply deferred payment for goods or services. People in debt have received goods or services and are paying for it over time.

Interest on debt of course complicates things, as some interest terms can be considered extortion. But that's still utterly unlike indentured servitude. If you look at debt slavery in the Third World, then you see what debt as indentured servitude looks like, and it's a damn sight less pretty than simply not being able to take a holiday.