"Is this what you really wanted?"

[LeftHander]

South Dakota passes total abortion ban.

Wisconsin sends gay discrimination State constitutional amendment to referendum.

What is going on in America!

Progressives, Liberals and Moderates need to get on to framing these issues and setting up public opinion against the extreme values of the right.

But we can't change what has happened. South Dakota's law has been passed and signed. Wisconsin's referendum may win unless we re-frame the debate and turn it back and attack the those that made it happen. We NEED political BACKLASH against the right to happen.

Political backlash by voters against the extreme right is the way. The extreme right has push this nation too far to the right and voters are going to suffer buyers remorse. WE NEED TO TELL THEM SUCH.

The best way to attack both of these issues is to get voters to ask themselves "Is this what I really wanted?"

Did I vote for this person on the grounds that they will willfully discriminate against people?

Did I vote for this person person knowing that they would force a women to give birth to a child that was a result of incest or rape or both?

Did I vote for this person forcing a women to full term even if it is likely to kill the mother?

Did I vote for this person knowing that they would not care about the love and bond that domestic partnerships have?


In this country we stopped forcing women to go to the back alleys for abortions.

In this country we protected our wives and daughters health.

In this country we stopped thinking of gay people as monsters and demons and recognize that they have families and values and deserve all the rights afforded to heterosexual couples. Simple basic rights of medical visitation, estate protection, spousal benefits and a public and legal recognition of a permanent loving family bond.

Is this TOO MUCH to ASK for?

Ask the republicans why do they want to change....and demand answers!!

Once again the "base" of the Democratic party is reaching out. I am reaching out from the left and hoping that Democrats will take up the call. I am. Everything has gone too far now. It is is time to start pointing fingers ad your neighbors who keep listening to the garbage from the the far right. It is TIME TO GET REALLY PISSED OFF.

If we don't FRAME the right's positions on the issues as being TOO EXTREME leading into this November then we will have TOTAL FAILURE.

The issues that matter now aren't taxes or war....it is right wing extremism....the extreme right has pushed for this and now they have it. So lets turn it right back throw it in their face.

AMERICA is about EQUALITY and FREEDOM.....

SHOW ME THE FREEDOM in SOUTH DAKOTA's ABORTION LAW and WISCONSIN's Marriage AMENDMENT!

[shoelace414]

1. It's not Gay Marriage

It's Gay Marriage Benefits. why are we denying the benefits to homosexuals?

[raccoon]

2. A gay man I know said that people who were against gay

marriage, thought it was a threat to a patriarchal society. I think he was right.

I think that's probably why a lot of people are against abortion, too.

[shoelace414]

4. Whenever I hear Gay Marriage, I try to re frame it by adding "benefits"

[LeftHander]

5. Excellent use "knowingly discriminate" too

Most people do not want to "knowingly discriminate" against people based on sexual orientation.

They need to be told that by supporting efforts of the right to "protect" marriage....that is precisely what they are doing.

[raccoon]

6. What are those? :sarcasm: nt

[LeftHander]

3. ding ding ding...

The right hides it's intentions....behind marriage protection. The real issue is as you stated. The amendment denies a entire section of of the states population rights...while giving the appearance of protecting something that needs no protection.

[KittyWampus]

7. States MUST Stop Issuing Marriage Certificates & ONLY Issue Contracts

Civil Union contracts are the only thing states should be issuing to any couple of any sex.

If you want to join households legally, then sign a LEGAL contract at the state courthouse. A Civil Union Contract.

If you want to THEN go on to marry, find whatever house of worship that will marry you.

[Coexist]

8. I see it the opposite way - marriage is a civil contract

and the religious part is a "blessing" on the marriage.

So let them get married - we all know that it is not real unto the Notary says it is real - and get the contract "blessed" if they so choose.

Keep God out of the contract.

[KittyWampus]

11. The Overwhelming Majority Of People In The US Think Marriage

is necessarily, in part, a RELIGIOUS institution. The word "Marriage" is firmly implanted in our collective consciousness as having something to do with religion.

And historically, it is. Going back to the Romans.

DU'ers need to look at REALITY and get over themselves and realize that just because THEY might not think marriage is a religous institution- they are a vanishingly small number.

Marriage is an institution that people see as being both social and religious.

Since Marriage is considered by people to be partly religious, the state has no business issuing marriage certificates.

Let the state issue Civil Union Contracts to ANY COUPLE who wants to legally join households and thus recieve benefits and be subjected to liabilities.

Let houses of worship issue Marriage Certificates to whatever couple wants to go that extra step.

[Coexist]

13. You might enjoy reading this:

http://www.uua.org/news/2003/030605g.html

[KittyWampus]

14. Thank You, the writer is certainly welcome to her opinion. Her knowledge

of non-western/non-industrialized culture is perhaps not terribly comprehensive.

More importantly, and more to the point, her stating people being "bad" at marriage is judgemental and off topic.

People get married for a variety of reasons. Marriages break apart for a variety of reasons. Currently, pressures from economic factors certainly play a large role.

Be that as it may, we live in a less then perfect world and while marriages might work or might not work, people still desire to go through with them.

Marriages have two components- their legal/civic function and their psycho/spiritual function. While both are holistically intertwined, keep in mind the US seperates church and state.

#1. Societies that recognize individual proprerty rights need laws and contracts to deal with instances when two unrelated people decide to join households. There need to be rules about sharing benefits and liabilities. These rules, regulations must be delineated in a LEGAL CONTRACT.

#2. Societies also are comprised of humans who use ritual and ceremony to mark important events/stages in our lives. Rites of passage are part of our psychological toolkit. The joining of households being one such event that ususally involves some kind of ceremony or event where two individuals have their new status recognized by their peers/family/society. And this ceremony is called, and has been called, a MARRIAGE CEREMONY.

The state must give ANY couple that wants to join households a Civil Union Contract. It has NO business insisting there be any ceremony or ritual involved.

The word Marriage is so deeply embedded with the ceremonial aspects that it is impossible to take it out. That's a matter of fact and not my personal opinoin. Thus is should be dropped from the State's lisence/contract.

[LeftHander]

12. I agree with that...

I wrote an essay on that two years ago. We should strike the word "marriage" from all civil documents and laws and reserve that term for religion.

Unfortunately the right wants to continue to keep marriage in the realm of government so they can effectively legislate state sponsored discrimination and gay people.

[calmblueocean]

9. Minnesota has gone crazy, too.

Tim Pawlenty has come out on the side of the Fred Phelps crowd and publicly endorsed the Minnesota Republicans new movement to demonize gays and gay marriage. They've even got a new website up: www.gangof12.com. Just disgusting. This is a profoundly shameful time in our history.

[Armstead]

10. K & R -- It's all about FREEDOM

The Democrats should restore the idea that it is the party of Diversity and Tolerance. Our side is actually the True Libertarians, in the sense of keeping the government out of your personal life.

The GOP Spin Machine has given those words a bad name, by associating them with the things that people are personally uncomfortable with.

BUT at base, most Americans attitude is "Live and Let Live." They want to be free to live their own lives as they choose, and they feel like their neighbors should have the same freedom.