It's not Big Brother, it's Soma !

[Ron Green]

Why do so many, even here on DU, worry about increasing government control? Big Government never did much damage in the U.S., nor will it ever. It's our own addiction to comfort and convenience that is doing us in. The fact that so few people are in the streets calling for the arrest of the least-qualified sack of shit ever to occupy the White House illustrates how comfortable we are. Most people in the US still don't have a clue as to the overwhelming worldwide loathing of America and its policies, because gas is still cheap and TV is ever-more satisfying, down at that deep level of primal fear and hunger.

It's just dismaying to me to read so much Libertarian stuff on DU. Jack-booted troops aren't coming for us . . . they know we'll keep our appointment at the Shopping Mall.

[wtbymark]

1. will you keep your appointment? n/t

[Ron Green]

3. I will keep a few of 'em, I must admit . . .

I don't claim not to be a comfortable middle-class citizen of privilege, compared to most people on this planet. I try to live simply and thoughtfully, but I'm no Luddite nor Spartan.

[Ron Mexico]

2. Well, hell, no problem!

Tap my phone if my last name begins with 'a' or has a hyphen in it. And if I look suspicious, hold me as an enemy combatant without charging me. As a dark-haired male I have no problem with this, as long as you the the increased government control you want!

You trust Bush at your own risk, Ron. This Ron prefers less government control, because there's no guarantee that we'll get the WH in 2008 - and even if we do, we won't keep it forever. But if you're comfortable assuming that a big government poses no potential threat no matter who's in charge, enjoy the good nights' sleep you get until you're proven wrong.

[Ron Green]

4. History doesn't bear this out, though.

We've heard many comparisons with Germany in the 1930's, but the very consumer culture that keeps us going was not a part of that world. What Bush's puppetmasters know is that, as long as Americans can drive and watch junk TV, they'll allow US foreign policy to go after the oil. Big Government in this country has built infrastructure, developed social programs, protected health and environment. Big business has given us what our primitive "lizard brains" want, and that's the sure way to control great numbers of people.

[Ron Mexico]

5. Like I said, go ahead and trust it if you like.

I prefer not to risk it. At least businesses tend to die. Once anything goes government, you never go back. I believe government involvement should be a last resort (and, for the record, I am not even sold on the idea of the feds running social programs - I'd prefer to see states doing it). My conservative co-workers and I rail on each other constantly, but one thing we agree on is that government is too big and too powerful (of course, we don't agree how to trim it).

You apparently don't see out-of-control Big Government as a risk. I do, and so did Clinton and Gore. The so-called fiscal conservatives in the GOP railed against Big Government for years but now don't see it as a problem - which is enough of a red flag for me. I scoff at comparisons between us and 1930's Germany, and at any rate just because history is to be learned from does not mean the future is limited to what's happened in the past.

If I'm right and it gets out of control, there is no turning back. Exactly how big do you want government to get?

[Ron Green]

6. My question then would be: How will my "trusting" government look

different from your "not trusting" it? I imagine we will vote for similar candidates (I prefer Dennis Kucinich or Howard Dean to most of the Kerry/Clinton mainstreamers), we will both avoid conspicuous consumption and wasteful personal habits, we will write LTTE to speak against the illegal war, we will seek to spread the progressive message among our friends and co-workers. So what's different?

[Ron Mexico]

8. The difference is that

you're at ease about it and I'm not. Further, I'd probably be likely to vote third-party if the Democrats ever ran someone who really disgusted me, and less likely to automatically sign off on new government programs than you. I support programs only when I look at them and see the government being a good steward of money. That isn't always the case.

Another possible example: although I support helping the poor / elderly / disabled, I do not support federal money going to the arts. That should be state and local, as should school lunches (so as not to get some fuckhead calling ketchup a vegetable). I do not support taking money from a family of four in Kansas to send money to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I think politicians of both parties should be imprisoned for wasteful pork spending - eventually, Social Security will again have to be bolstered by a tax hike or a benefit cut, and that wouldn't have been necessary if these bastards weren't spending our money on $248 million bridges to towns of 50 people or $11 million bus stops.

But social spending isn't what bothers me so much right now - I've got time to piss and moan about that later - it's foreign spending and domestic spying. Both are parts of Big Government, and neither are going away.

[Goldensilence]

7. More worried big brother comes in a business suit

literally. The mis-trust of big govt is a ploy to " Privitize" everything. At least in a democracy officials are elected. Business? Hired? Hand selected second comings. If the voting is kept simple, transparent, and certified by an outside the country third party then govt will ALWAYS be easier to keep in check then Business.Checks and balances?

I'm starting to think most people would love nothing more then eliminate govt and let business take care of everything. Reaks of aristocacy and coporatism. Isn't that why the US was originally founded?Wallow for your consumer rights as they piss on your civil liberties.

[Ron Mexico]

9. In either case, the thought of

supporting Big Government getting bigger while the Repugs are in charge is just chilling. I wish I could be as calavlier about it as Ron, I'd sleep better, but I can't. There are plenty of paths bigger Big Government can take with the current gaggle of Nazis in charge, and few of them sound promising.

[sendero]

10. Consumerism...

... is merely the soma that government uses to keep things moving their way. Neither is a good thing.

[400Years]

11. so people getting gassed at protests are no big deal?

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/oldwww/video/vvideo.php

watch the first video in this list and tell me it's no big deal.

[specimenfred1984]

13. What's With all the "It's Not Happening" Posts Lately?

Clearly it is, as evidenced by both of our posts.

I though DUers would be more aware.

[400Years]

14. there is always a few who try to convince people to embrace fascism

recently there was some "DUer" trying to convice everybody that getting RFID implants are a good thing.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. There is in fact a scene with gassing at a riot in 'Brave New World'

but not in 1984. However, in BNW the gas is soma-based, to subdue them.

[specimenfred1984]

12. Keep Speaking Out Against "*" At Work Then...

See how long you keep your job, especially if it's at a major corporation.

You contradicted yourself in your own post too, the reason many people aren't in the streets calling for the arrest of chimpo is precisely because they would be arrested, photgraphed, booked, held for a while and have "a file" created on them.

Check this out, it happens at every D.C. protest:

--- "Hundreds of people wandered into Pershing Park on the morning of Sept. 27—activists looking for a protest, nurses in town for a conference, lawyers headed to work, and a cyclist training for a race. And there was Chief Charles Ramsey with his troops, ready to arrest them all." ---

http://www.why-war.com/news/2003/01/17/bosshogt.html

[Ron Green]

19. I don't agree that the reason many aren't in the streets is that they are

afraid of arrest. I think they're just comfortable enough to not care very much.

[noonwitch]

15. I want my SOMA!!!

Or Pacsil. Or Zoloft. Or Proazac. Or whatever other pill they are selling on tv to solve all my problems.

[Leopolds Ghost]

17. Big Business and Big Government go hand-in-hand.

FDR understood this when he admitted that the New Deal was necessary to prevent a popular revolt from upending the corporate economic system.

The Progressives' primary competitor was Populism, which is still the core American impulse, in my opinion.

Populism understands that Big Business and Big Government go hand in hand. Always have and always will.

Reagan, despite all his talk of small government, was a great admirer of FDR (and a champion of big defense spending.) He only wanted to downsize social programs, because he wanted a Big Government that was PURELY alligned with Big Business.

Social programs, and the New Deal, were FDR's attempt to reconcile Big Government by putting a "check" on Big Business, or a check on the depredations of Big Business, while allowing it to grow bigger to facilitate the war effort. The Reagan Revolution removed most of the checks and kept the Big Government (partly by going back to the old-style Republican system of Beltway Bandits hired to do all the work.)

[blindpig]

18. TV beats the hell out of machine guns for controlling the masses.

Instead of creating martyrs people ask for more. I'm with you on this. We wouldn't be where we are today if big money wasn't controlling the government.

As an environmentalist I have no choice but to prefer government over business interests.

We certainly need to keep a close eye on government, but that's what democracy is all about, isn't it?

[Swamp Rat]

20. False dichotomy

Big Brother dispenses Soma kinda like a heroin dealer.

[Ron Green]

21. Great job on the image. This reminds me of another thing . . .

the Church. Not just the organized church, but the moral culture of a people. If it gets taken over by either the State or the Market, we have a problem. The moral culture should inform the others, but not control them or be controlled by them. I liken the Church to Freud's "superego," the State to the "ego," and the Market to the "id." Our society must have all three, and each can be beneficial or destructive. In Cheney/Bush world, all three are pretty fucked up.